The Church in the Book of Revelation

[glorydaz]

So God's vision to Daniel wasn't meant to be taken as an accurate literal 70 weeks.
Or, the shortening of days was not about the 70 weeks.

Neither of those.
Jesus doesn't say those days wouldn't be 70 weeks. Rather those days could have been longer, but they will be shortened to only 70 weeks.

Matt. 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

 

[glorydaz]

To say it is a MAD cherry pick doesn't mean MAD is the only ism that cherry picks it.

Nor does it mean MAD cherry picks just because you say it does.

 

[Tambora]

Neither of those.
Jesus doesn't say those days wouldn't be 70 weeks. Rather those days could have been longer, but they will be shortened to only 70 weeks.

Matt. 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Oh my gosh!
I bet you've never said that before.
You must not be the real Glorydaz.

Look at what you have to do to the text to force it to fit your ism.
Seventy weeks was just a shortened time from who knows what.
Remove the shortened days from being part of the 70 weeks and you don't have to jump through hoops to force it to fit in.

 

[glorydaz]

Oh my gosh!
I bet you've never said that before.
You must not be the real Glorydaz.

Look at what you have to do to the text to force it to fit your ism.
Seventy weeks was just a shortened time from who knows what.
Remove the shortened days from being part of the 70 weeks and you don't have to jump through hoops to force it to fit in.

Nice try, but it's not working.
When Daniel prophesied 70 weeks, that included God's mercy.

You think God is not able to have His mercy included in the timeline?
Is that just like He's not able to keep us saved?
Is that why you are kicking so hard against the goad?

 

[Tambora]

Nice try, but it's not working.
When Daniel prophesied 70 weeks, that included God's mercy.

You think God is not able to have His mercy included in the timeline?
Is that just like He's not able to keep us saved?
Is that why you are kicking so hard against the goad?

Is it new to the MAD camp that Daniel's 70 weeks prophesy is the result of a shortened timeline, or has MAD always taught that?

 

[glorydaz]

Is it new to the MAD camp that Daniel's 70 weeks prophesy is the result of a shortened timeline, or has MAD always taught that?

I have no idea what MAD teaches on a whole lot of issues.

And, it isn't a result of a shortened timeline at all.

 

[Idolater]

So Colossians 3:5 " Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth", that just means----wait for the Holy Spirit to do it?

It is not passive. "Lead them into all truth. Your word is truth," Jesus prayed. If we never read the Bible, never meditate on His word and search the scriptures as though mining for the pearl of greatest value, these things that pertain to our attitudes and behaviors as one being transformed by God into the image of Christ, then we will not know what is our duty to obey. At the same time it is the Holy Spirit that causes this living word to penetrate to our very heart, and love obedience. It takes a lifetime.

To add a footnote to my previous post of today: When this regeneration comes and the Holy Spirit indwells a person to begin His work in them, there will be a change in the person, of necessity. After all an unimaginable and glorious and actual event has taken place in them. If there is no change, this has probably not taken place, though that is not to say that it never will. Keep seeking and we will find. This change may be large or small, may or may not be yet visible to others, but known within the person. And it does not mean everything will change all at once---growth is just that, growth. And it will be different or may be for each person as we are all individuals. But the Holy Spirit will begin to convict us of sin---something in us will begin to recognize right from wrong. Not just in a societal way but a way in which we recognize it as not pleasing to God. And we will have a powerful love of God our Savior.

So Paul doesn't just say, " Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth" but he adds significant detail! " fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry . . . anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth"

As far as I'm concerned, what you're teaching here is that we should meditate upon only other things but not morals and ethics, and instead that we should wait for the Holy Spirit to form us into a good Christian ethically and morally but not because we meditated upon our morals.

But I know that you're only telling me the Calvinist morals. It was the reason I had to abandon Calvinism, because the necessary lack of emphasis upon personal morals conflicts with the very clear New Testament emphasis upon it. Paul is one of the most adamant that the Church must be moral!

 

[glorydaz]

So Paul doesn't just say, " Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth" but he adds significant detail! " fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry . . . anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth"

As far as I'm concerned, what you're teaching here is that we should meditate upon only other things but not morals and ethics, and instead that we should wait for the Holy Spirit to form us into a good Christian ethically and morally but not because we meditated upon our morals.

But I know that you're only telling me the Calvinist morals. It was the reason I had to abandon Calvinism, because the necessary lack of emphasis upon personal morals conflicts with the very clear New Testament emphasis upon it. Paul is one of the most adamant that the Church must be moral!

From what Paul says here, he's clearly including what we should avoid as we live here in this body of flesh. Your point is well made.

31 And they that use this world, as not abusing it: for the fashion of this world passeth away.

 

[Arial]

So Paul doesn't just say, " Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth" but he adds significant detail! " fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry . . . anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth"

Right. So we will know what he is talking about. What is pleasing to God and what is not.

As far as I'm concerned, what you're teaching here is that we should meditate upon only other things but not morals and ethics, and instead that we should wait for the Holy Spirit to form us into a good Christian ethically and morally but not because we meditated upon our morals.

I do not know why you think I am only teaching to meditate on other things, when I was quite specific about the ethics (also) that are given in the scriptures---and the ten commandments for that matter. We should meditate on all the scriptures. And I said it was not a passive thing so I don't know why you insist that I think it is. But keep in mind, it is not good morals that saves a person. Good morals are an act of obedience and love.

But I know that you're only telling me the Calvinist morals. It was the reason I had to abandon Calvinism, because the necessary lack of emphasis upon personal morals conflicts with the very clear New Testament emphasis upon it. Paul is one of the most adamant that the Church must be moral

What in the world are Calvinist morals? What you call Calvinism is really Reformed theology because it contains much more than the TULIP. The more that it contains is every single other Christine doctrine, including that of Christian behavior. And whereas it is true that it has a strong and foundational focus on God and Christ, rather than earthly things, that is as it should be.