The Birth Control Thread

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Birth Control Thread

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Birth Control Thread

Originally posted by Crow

WA, I think God set natural law into place, and so rarely contravenes natural law that when He does so it is so execptional that we consider it a miracle. I think that He makes us responsible for conducting our lives decently, and making the choices necessary to do so.

I've seen pregnant crackheads, 11 year olds, and retarded girls with severe Down's syndrome. Those people certainly had kids that they could not raise properly.

It's kind of like "would God allow the tornado hit your house if your house might fall on you and kill you?" I believe that God gives you the brains and responsibility to dig the storm cellar if you live in tornado alley, or to not conceive kids that you are unable to care for properly.

I realize that everyone is not going to be in agreement on this. We each have different ideas of what God expects of us.

I agree, god gave us a brain for obvious reasons, if we just stopped using the reasoning ability god gave us then we'd never get anywhere or survive very long.

And I definately think there is a limit on the number of kids parents can raise and still give each one the love and support they need.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
1peacemaker quote
The breath of a mother is given to her child with every heartbeat. The child breaths even as she does.

Without that breath in him, he would quickly die. He breaths, via placenta.

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Good Answer :thumb:

I wonder if that is how God sees it.
 

Sozo

New member
Originally posted by keypurr

1peacemaker quote
The breath of a mother is given to her child with every heartbeat. The child breaths even as she does.

Without that breath in him, he would quickly die. He breaths, via placenta.

----------------------------------------------------
Good Answer :thumb:

I wonder if that is how God sees it.
No, keypurr, the reality of this truth has completely escaped Him. :rolleyes:
 

keypurr

Well-known member
Sozo it is nice to know that someone here on earth knows all of God's secrets. Enlighten us on the subject. When does a person become a living soul? Is it the breath of life? Maybe you could advice the creator to explain it to us.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
If you really believe that it is conseption can you tell me why?

I am open minded on the subject and maybe you can swing my vote.

I am not talking about LIFE now but a PERSON. Life does begin at conseption we agree, but when is a fetus a person? Use scripture please.
 

Anne

New member
According to my Oxford dictionary a person is a 'human being' which would obviously include an unborn baby. All the physical characteristics are determined at conception. These characteristics are used to identify a person, such as the colour of the hair, shape of the face etc.

Keypurr, the onus is actually on you to prove an unborn child isn't a person. Believing an unborn child to be a person from conception has the least potential for harm. Unless you are a hundred percent certain that an unborn child is not a person it is always better to give the unborn child the benefit of any doubt.
 

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
Gold Subscriber
Hall of Fame
Is it a person when it kicks, keypurr? Do you remember the story of when Mary went to tell Elizabeth of her pregnancy and John jumped in Elizabeth's womb, because he felt the presence of the Lord in Mary's womb?
 

Anne

New member
Depending on how long it would have taken Mary to travel to her cousin, Elizabeth, Jesus could have been just a few days old (after conception). That means that John jumped in Elizabeth's womb recognizing the person of Jesus in Mary's womb.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
Your stupidly is showing again Sozo. I asked a serious question and you make pun of it. If you are as gifted as you think, answer the question. If you can't, just say so. It is OK to be dumb as long as your nice.
 

Lovejoy

Active member
Every year researchers find new means of evaluating the responsiveness of the conceptus in the womb. And every year they are amazed at how truly aware they are. So aware, in fact, that it almost seems as if they came equipped with that awareness, and their development is simply to gain the means to express it. Frankly, they are always a person, just not always one that can tell us so.

I just spent several hours researching this thing about birth control pills causing abortions. I knew that happened with low dose, but had no idea that everything is low dose now! How come no one ever tells me anything? I truly had no idea. My wife tossed her patch out as soon as I told her. The OB/gyn never said anything, and it is not on the paperwork that came with the patch! However, it is on the web site for the patch. What is up with that! To heck with it. We are just going to have to have kids...
 

elohiym

Well-known member
Originally posted by keypurr

I am not talking about LIFE now but a PERSON. Life does begin at conseption we agree, but when is a fetus a person? Use scripture please.
Would it be fair to state that life begins when God knows you? I think so.

Therefore, life begins before conception based on this scripture:
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Jeremiah 1:5
My feeling is that we should not attempt to thwart God's will for us to have children by using any birth-control, as it is futile to do so. Onan comes to mind. Furthermore, God is able to provide everything he needs to care for my family no matter how large he makes it.
 

Sozo

New member
Originally posted by keypurr

Your stupidly is showing again Sozo. I asked a serious question and you make pun of it.
It was a stupid question, so it deserved a stupid answer.

There is no time that it is not a person after conception.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
El quote
My feeling is that we should not attempt to thwart God's will for us to have children by using any birth-control, as it is futile to do so.


We agree about 95%, I would condone birth control if the health of either Mother or Baby was involved.

The point I am trying to make is Life does not really complete the defination of a person. When it becomes a living soul it developes a personality and completes into a person. I guess Sozo didn't get what I was looking for. My wife and I have suffered a lose during pregnancy many ytears ago and we often wonder what he/she would be doing now at about age 40. I would like to think that this life did not suffer at the time. However because of this I have often wondered when a fetus really becomes a human being, not just a life or promise of life. Thanks for your help Sozo.
 

firechyld

New member
Every year researchers find new means of evaluating the responsiveness of the conceptus in the womb. And every year they are amazed at how truly aware they are. So aware, in fact, that it almost seems as if they came equipped with that awareness, and their development is simply to gain the means to express it. Frankly, they are always a person, just not always one that can tell us so.

I just spent several hours researching this thing about birth control pills causing abortions. I knew that happened with low dose, but had no idea that everything is low dose now! How come no one ever tells me anything? I truly had no idea. My wife tossed her patch out as soon as I told her. The OB/gyn never said anything, and it is not on the paperwork that came with the patch! However, it is on the web site for the patch. What is up with that! To heck with it. We are just going to have to have kids...

That's interesting... we still have the triple-dose thingummies over here. The ones that prevent ovulation, although they aren't foolproof. I guess it comes down to whether or not you're prepared to take that risk.

Yes, yes, I know this is the exclusively Christian board, but I had a quick question for those who believe contraception is acceptable if it's not an "abortifacent": If a chemical contraceptive was invented that most definitely would work by preventing ovulation, rather than by preventing implantation of a potentially fertilised egg, would you be for it?

Following on from that, what are your views of the developments towards a male contraceptive pill? I would imagine that, since many Christians are avoiding female contraceptive pills because they can cause an abortion, there would be a bigger Christian prescence behind the development of this technology. In my research, however, I haven't discovered this to be the case. Thoughts?
 

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
Gold Subscriber
Hall of Fame
Originally posted by keypurr

Your stupidly is showing again Sozo. I asked a serious question and you make pun of it. If you are as gifted as you think, answer the question. If you can't, just say so. It is OK to be dumb as long as your nice.
:shut:
 

philosophizer

New member
Re: Re: The Birth Control Thread

Re: Re: The Birth Control Thread

Originally posted by Crow

I pretty much believe as you do. I also think that sterilization is acceptable.
Yeah, I forgot to add that one.


I personally believe that God expects us to use our God given brains, not only in this instance, but in all instances. We each know our circumstances, our abilities, assets, and strengths and failings. The church is the Body of Christ, but we each have our function, and it will not be exactly the same for each one of us. Raising children and leading them to know Christ is a very important role, but it is not the only important role within the Body.
I agree.
 
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