The Birth Control Thread

philosophizer

New member
I would like to hear some of the beliefs about birth control. This is in the Exclusively Christian Theology forum because that's mainly what I'm looking for.


-I believe that abortion is murder.
-I believe that life begins at conception.
-I believe that many methods of birth control are wrong because they are actually abortificients instead of contraceptives, such as the pill, IUDs, and implants that release the same kind of birth control hormones as the pill.
-I believe that barrier methods are acceptable contraceptives.


What are some thoughts?
 

Sozo

New member
Re: The Birth Control Thread

Originally posted by philosophizer

-I believe that barrier methods are acceptable contraceptives.
Do you mean something like a locked door?
 

Crow

New member
Re: The Birth Control Thread

Originally posted by philosophizer

I would like to hear some of the beliefs about birth control. This is in the Exclusively Christian Theology forum because that's mainly what I'm looking for.


-I believe that abortion is murder.
-I believe that life begins at conception.
-I believe that many methods of birth control are wrong because they are actually abortificients instead of contraceptives, such as the pill, IUDs, and implants that release the same kind of birth control hormones as the pill.
-I believe that barrier methods are acceptable contraceptives.


What are some thoughts?

I pretty much believe as you do. I also think that sterilization is acceptable. Once conception occurs, I believe that preventing implantation or abortion by any means is murder, but murder does not occur when conception is prevented.

Not every sperm or ovum is going to be fertilized and become a child- the majority will not be used to produce life. That's the way human fertility is designed, so it seems that God does not see these cells as being valuable in and of themselves until they join to become a human, or He would not have made them so expendable.

I personally believe that God expects us to use our God given brains, not only in this instance, but in all instances. We each know our circumstances, our abilities, assets, and strengths and failings. The church is the Body of Christ, but we each have our function, and it will not be exactly the same for each one of us. Raising children and leading them to know Christ is a very important role, but it is not the only important role within the Body.
 

Sozo

New member
Re: Re: The Birth Control Thread

Re: Re: The Birth Control Thread

Originally posted by Crow

We each know our circumstances, our abilities, assets, and strengths and failings.

:think: ummm... more than God does?
 

Sozo

New member
I will repost my thoughts on this issue.

Please note: This post of mine is NOT a personal response to anything either philosophizer or Crow have stated.

God wants a relationship with us that is based on total dependancy.

We are to seek Him daily, moment by moment, as we pray without ceasing. God gives us a peace that passes all understanding when we go to Him in a sincere heart of faith. If God did not desire for someone to have children (which would be contrary to what is natural), then a person who seeks Him in this regard would have peace. Most people have been trained to believe that it is more natural to prevent pregnancy, and then make a decision to have children. That is a perversion of the truth. Of course, the world is known for doing that.

As I have always said, and say again, it has to do with seeking God, and not making arbitrary decisons based on one's own personal desires.

My relationship with God is closer than my relationship with my wife or children. Because of that, I have little difficulty in knowing which direction to go regarding decisions such as what we are discussing. Most Christians do not have intimacy with God, and their lives are directed by emotional responses, impressions, superstitions or earthly wisdom; none of which come from God.

We also, and most importantly have a letter from Him (the Bible) to consult on matters of great importance...

We know that God can and does open and close the womb.

"And God remembered Rachel, and God hearkened to her, and opened her womb"

"But unto Hannah he gave a worthy portion; for he loved Hannah: but the Lord had shut up her womb."

Please also consider this...

I think we agree that the only people who should be using any type of contraceptive are those who are married, correct?

Considering that fact, and the fact that it is natural to have children, and unnatural to prevent them; plus what I have provided regarding our seeking God in such matters to do that which is unnatural, this would leave a small minority to use contraceptives.

We already know that the pill can cause an abortion, so we can rule that out as a possible product. I contend that from God's perspective of those whom he has chosen not to shut the womb on his own initiative, and from those whom He would choose to do that which is unnatural, that they would be in such a minority, that there would not be a manufacturer that would survive in such a way as to continue producing contraceptive products. In other words, if everyone was doing that which was correct in a relationship with God, there would be no such product as a contraceptive to use.


If you will carefully, and not quickly, examine what I have presented here, you will see that it is the only logical conclusion.
I know that it will offend many who either use or have used contraceptives, but it is still an honest evaluation that everyone should take into account.

The minds of most Christians are so twisted away from the things of God, and towards the wisdom of man, that they have lost the ability to see clearly regarding these issues. Instead of seeking God's will, we have been programmed to put our faith in science, and the so-called "professionals". We have got to strip away that mind-set and return to total dependancy on the One who possesses all wisdom and knowledge, and get our eyes off of ourselves.
 

Crow

New member
Originally posted by smothers

I believe the Bible doesn't say anything about contraception. It is a bronze-age pre-scientifc piece of literature.

And that little "nugget" does not belong in the exclusively Christian theology forum, which is why your post was deleted, smothers.

Rules of Exclusively Christian Forum
 
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keypurr

Well-known member
philosophizer Quote
-I believe that life begins at conception.

As food for thought, you believe that life begins a conseption, OK.

Now when does a fetus become a person?

Is it murder if it is not a person?

If life begins at conseption and you do not engage in sex, thus preventing what could be a life, is that murder?

How about the health and welfare of the mother?

This is not a cut and dry subject that most people think it is.

For the record I value Human Life, but I am not sure when it really begins. Or how to pick if the life of the mother is weigh in with that of the fetus and only one would live.
 

Sozo

New member
Originally posted by keypurr



Now when does a fetus become a person?
At conception.
Is it murder if it is not a person?
There is never a time after conception that it is not a person.
If life begins at conseption and you do not engage in sex, thus preventing what could be a life, is that murder?
No.
How about the health and welfare of the mother?
At what point would you kill your own child to protect yourself?
This is not a cut and dry subject that most people think it is.
Apparently it isn't for people who don't know what they are talking about.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
quote:
Originally posted by keypurr

Now when does a fetus become a person?

Sozo quote
At conception.

PROVE IT in scripture

keypurr quote:
How about the health and welfare of the mother?

At what point would you kill your own child to protect yourself?
I would want to protect my wife or daughters or grand daughters.

:)

Sozo, what makes up a person? Ever think about that?

:think:
 

Crow

New member
Re: Re: Re: The Birth Control Thread

Re: Re: Re: The Birth Control Thread

This part is a response to Sozo's post,

I agree with you that only married people should have any need to consider birth control, as unmarried people should not be having sex.

This part is my opinion in general.

If I were sterile and I were to have surgery to enable me to conceive, I do not feel that I would be contravening God's will. Nor do I think that it is wrong to use antibiotics to treat pneumonia, even though antibiotics are unnatural.

It is unnatural to take Advil for arthritis, yet many of us do so, and there is no Biblical indication that such interference with natural circumstance is wrong, and in fact evidence otherwise.

God is capable of determining human fertility, and there are instances clearly recorded where God took direct action in determining human fertility. I don't see indications that He directly acts in every case of human fertility.

It's not natural for a man to never take a wife. God created woman because He said it was not good for man to be alone, and man should have a helpmate. Yet many of God's people have chosen to remain single, despite this not being the natural order of things as God initiated them.

I don't think that the "natural" thing is necessarily the will of God in each instance. I believe that God gave us a brain and the heart to seek what is His will for us to do in a circumstance. If that means preventing conception to limit my family because I am unable to raise them as I believe He would have me raise them for whatever reason, then it is my responsibility to do so.
 

wholearmor

New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: The Birth Control Thread

Re: Re: Re: Re: The Birth Control Thread

Originally posted by Crow
I don't think that the "natural" thing is necessarily the will of God in each instance. I believe that God gave us a brain and the heart to seek what is His will for us to do in a circumstance. If that means preventing conception to limit my family because I am unable to raise them as I believe He would have me raise them for whatever reason, then it is my responsibility to do so.

So you believe God would allow you to have more children than you feel you could raise properly?
 

Crow

New member
Originally posted by keypurr

quote:
Originally posted by keypurr

Now when does a fetus become a person?

Sozo quote
At conception.

PROVE IT in scripture

God does not list a qualification of "personhood" for humanity. Do you see any evidence in the scripture that God considers any stage of human life to be non-human? When Mary was pregnant with Jesus, we are told that John the Baptist lept in his mother's womb when she was approached by Mary. My belief is that this account was included in scripture not only to tell us of the significance of Jesus, but to show us that we are human even before we are born.

As to choosing between the life of the mother and the life of a viable fetus, that is a situation that I have never seen in 25+ years as a nurse.

I have seen ectopic pregnancies, where the fetus was unable to be saved. I have seen pregnancies where the child was delivered early but at a viable gestational age when the mother's life was at risk from eclampsia. I even know of a case where a woman dying as a result of a head injury in a car wreck was delivered by caeserian section and the child was saved. I have not seen one case where there was a choice between a woman's life and a viable fetus.

In the cases I have known where only one lived, the choice presented was not which one to save but whether to lose one or both.
 
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Crow

New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Birth Control Thread

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Birth Control Thread

Originally posted by wholearmor

So you believe God would allow you to have more children than you feel you could raise properly?

WA, I think God set natural law into place, and so rarely contravenes natural law that when He does so it is so execptional that we consider it a miracle. I think that He makes us responsible for conducting our lives decently, and making the choices necessary to do so.

I've seen pregnant crackheads, 11 year olds, and retarded girls with severe Down's syndrome. Those people certainly had kids that they could not raise properly.

It's kind of like "would God allow the tornado hit your house if your house might fall on you and kill you?" I believe that God gives you the brains and responsibility to dig the storm cellar if you live in tornado alley, or to not conceive kids that you are unable to care for properly.

I realize that everyone is not going to be in agreement on this. We each have different ideas of what God expects of us.
 

wholearmor

New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Birth Control Thread

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Birth Control Thread

Originally posted by Crow

WA, I think God set natural law into place, and so rarely contravenes natural law that when He does so it is so execptional that we consider it a miracle. I think that He makes us responsible for conducting our lives decently, and making the choices necessary to do so.

I've seen pregnant crackheads, 11 year olds, and retarded girls with severe Down's syndrome. Those people certainly had kids that they could not raise properly.

It's kind of like "would God allow the tornado hit your house if your house might fall on you and kill you?" I believe that God gives you the brains and responsibility to dig the storm cellar if you live in tornado alley, or to not conceive kids that you are unable to care for properly.

I realize that everyone is not going to be in agreement on this. We each have different ideas of what God expects of us.

I wasn't asking about pregnant crackheads, 11-year-olds, and retarded girls with severe Down's syndrome. I was asking about you.
 

Crow

New member
I'm not married now, WA, but if I were I could. For the majority of the time I was married, the situation was such that I could not have raised a child. I'm not going to put it on the board. Check your PMs
 

1PeaceMaker

New member
The fruit of the womb is his REWARD.

That says to me a child is different than a hurricane, even if the effects look the same in your livingroom. ;)
 

keypurr

Well-known member
Crow,I agree that LIFE begins with conseption, but LIFE alone does not make a person. A seed is not a tree. It is a potential on a tree. I think a person is more than flesh and bones.

Food for thought.
In Genises God put breath in man AND HE BECAME A LIVING SOUL.
Does this mean that we need breath to be considered a living person? I am not qualified to answer that and I don't think you are either. That would make an interesting thread.

Gen 2:7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
 

1PeaceMaker

New member
The breath of a mother is given to her child with every heartbeat. The child breaths even as she does.

Without that breath in him, he would quickly die. He breaths, via placenta.
 

Poly

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Originally posted by 1PeaceMaker

The fruit of the womb is his REWARD.

That says to me a child is different than a hurricane, even if the effects look the same in your livingroom. ;)

:up: :chuckle:
 
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