ECT SALVATION: OLD TESTAMENT VS NEW
- Thread starter Arsenios
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Peace with God.
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What is the practical working out of that in one's life?
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The full intention of God for creating Adam was to form His Character in him. Pro-creation was the means by which it would be advanced in mankind. His intention has not been altered by Jesus Christ but only enlarged, and time is running out for the unregenerate man to get on board.
Arsenios
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Psalm 51
Restore unto me...
The Joy of Thy Salvation
And with Thy Governing Spirit
Establish me...
To what Salvation
and to which Spirit
was David referring?
Arsenios
Arsenios
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So you wish to separate the smell from the perfume?
What would Paul say was different?
Does he not write "That your Joy be made full?"
How can one have the Joy of Salvation that God gives
Without having the Salvation that gives the Joy that God gives?
Even the MEANS to that Salvation is being sought by David. And that Means is the Renewal by God of a Right Spirit WITHIN David...
Arsenios
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By Faith! Both OT and NT! God reciprocates with JOY because you are a joy to Him by the exercise of your faith to the end there is no "separation" but an increased intimacy.
I am beginning to wonder if you even want to believe that about God.
Arsenios
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Did He not BECOME a man conceived in the womb of the Blessed Virgin?
To BECOME is to CHANGE...
The whole of the INCARNATION was for God to BECOME man...
Arsenios
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The challenge for us is to break free from the bondage of hanging till we die mentality and embrace the main reason it took God 4000yrs to perform His miracle through Mary.
Arsenios
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I had asked: "What did Moses and Elijah not have that Peter and Paul did have?"
Paul does write that the Mystery of the Faith is Christ within you... But I would point out that this cannot mean that there is some location in the unregenerate where God is not... Instead, we must say that "God is everywhere present and fillest all things..." The Old Testament Holy Ones were saturated with God...
OK - And we are cleansed in the Baptismal Waters of Regeneration, where all our sins are washed away and we are entered into Christ, so that as the Apostle writes: "Everyone who has been baptized into Christ has put on Christ...", Yes? For he elsewhere writes: "Know ye not that ye are baptized into Christ's DEATH?"
Is it not better to say, rather than overlooking our sins, God cleanses them from us, and we ARE clean? It is not that we ABIDE in the stench of sin but God holds His nose, is it?
It can be, and it is when we receive the Holy Spirit's Anointing [eg His Christing, which is the same word] upon arising from the Baptismal Waters... It is our lives AFTER that which determine the degree of Communion with the Holy Spirit... eg How well we "run the race set before us" as the Apostle Paul writes, yes? IF we return to the things behind us, like a dog returning to its vomit, and abide in our old way of sinful life, we are fit only for burning, and will be gathered and burned... We are good for nothing else, according to Scripture, yes?
This is a key point, for how could Moses be shining so brightly that the Israelites could not even beat to look upon his face, if God was not INSIDE him? Do you really think that it was just the surface of his skin that was lit up?
As He did Moses and Elijah...
Yes... As did both Moses and Elijah, but differently, wouldn't you say? Both were God-Bearers as was Paul... But there is a key difference between them and Paul... That is the purpose of this thread, to discern that key difference...
Yes - It is the DEATH that is key...
Did Moses and Elijah DIE???
Arsenios
Paul does write that the Mystery of the Faith is Christ within you... But I would point out that this cannot mean that there is some location in the unregenerate where God is not... Instead, we must say that "God is everywhere present and fillest all things..." The Old Testament Holy Ones were saturated with God...
OK - And we are cleansed in the Baptismal Waters of Regeneration, where all our sins are washed away and we are entered into Christ, so that as the Apostle writes: "Everyone who has been baptized into Christ has put on Christ...", Yes? For he elsewhere writes: "Know ye not that ye are baptized into Christ's DEATH?"
Is it not better to say, rather than overlooking our sins, God cleanses them from us, and we ARE clean? It is not that we ABIDE in the stench of sin but God holds His nose, is it?
It can be, and it is when we receive the Holy Spirit's Anointing [eg His Christing, which is the same word] upon arising from the Baptismal Waters... It is our lives AFTER that which determine the degree of Communion with the Holy Spirit... eg How well we "run the race set before us" as the Apostle Paul writes, yes? IF we return to the things behind us, like a dog returning to its vomit, and abide in our old way of sinful life, we are fit only for burning, and will be gathered and burned... We are good for nothing else, according to Scripture, yes?
This is a key point, for how could Moses be shining so brightly that the Israelites could not even beat to look upon his face, if God was not INSIDE him? Do you really think that it was just the surface of his skin that was lit up?
As He did Moses and Elijah...
Yes... As did both Moses and Elijah, but differently, wouldn't you say? Both were God-Bearers as was Paul... But there is a key difference between them and Paul... That is the purpose of this thread, to discern that key difference...
Yes - It is the DEATH that is key...
Did Moses and Elijah DIE???
Arsenios
that which was available before adams sin
Arsenios
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Aristotle said that "wonder"[thaomadzo] is the beginning of philosophy...
That slope is slippery...
Jes' sayin'...
Arsenios
Arsenios
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But David is writing AFTER Adam's sin...
Before that sin, no Salvation was needed...
I think you have something else in mind?
Arsenios
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Was the manifest presence of God with Adam when he transgressed? Was He with Jesus when being tempted by Satan? Answer, No. Why not? What was God after by His absence that we need to learn?
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Aristotle said that "wonder"[thaomadzo] is the beginning of philosophy... with most of it going nowhere beneficial to mankind. . .
Arsenios
Arsenios
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Think: Hidden in plain sight...
It was Adam who hid...
Not God Who was missing...
Arsenios
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Before he committed the deed, God was not present else why would He coming looking for Adam? Nothing is ever hidden frpm God when He wants to find you.
With Jesus, it would also would have been unnecessary for the angels to come and minister to Him after 40 days of being left alone..
OMT: That is the way same God works with you and I when we are tried and proven __ one way of tother. In the afterwards God shows up either to bring JOY or conviction.
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Eph 4:1-6 KJV I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, (2) With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; (3) Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. (4) There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; (5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism, (6) One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
I guess that Paul missed that one gospel thing. Maybe he was late to class that day.
WonderfulLordJesus
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Hebrews 11
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Matthew 17
1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Matthew 17
1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
after that sin, no salvation was available until Jesus did what He did
what are you thinking?