ECT SALVATION: OLD TESTAMENT VS NEW

[Arsenios]

What is the difference between Salvation in the Old Testament and that found in the New Testament?

Christ said that the least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than the greatest of the Old Testament Prophets, John the Baptist...

What was Salvation in the OT?
What IS Salvation in Christ?

Are they different?
The same?

Arsenios

 

[Squeaky]

I think it is obvious that if no one in the old testament went to heaven. They didn't find their salvation back there.

John 3:13
13 "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
(NKJ)

 

[oatmeal]

What is the difference between Salvation in the Old Testament and that found in the New Testament?

Christ said that the least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than the greatest of the Old Testament Prophets, John the Baptist...

What was Salvation in the OT?
What IS Salvation in Christ?

Are they different?
The same?

Arsenios

Salvation in the OT was not as comprehensive as NT salvation.

The OT believers became sons of God by adoption. Since it was Jesus Christ who introduced and foretold of the possibility of becoming born again, it was not available until he completed his works on earth.

Christians are sons of God by seed, I Peter 1:23 We are born again conceived with seed. God gave to us of His spirit, His spirit is incorruptible. I John 4:13

The OT believers had spirit upon them. They were not born again.

God would put His spirit upon those who He selected for that, but they could lose that spirit. Saul did, David, after one of his errors, realized that he could too.

Psalm 51:11

Jesus Christ paid the price for our sins, we are born again of God's spirit, we cannot lose that spiritual seed. We cannot lose our earthly parents DNA, we cannot lose our Heavenly Father's seed in us.

We are sons of God by seed, not adoption.

God foreknew who would believe His word, Romans 8:29, and with that foreknowledge, used His wisdom to select us, to mark us out beforehand, (poorly translated predestined)

In the sense, as with adoptions, He selected us, the idea of adoption fits, but since adoption is not the same as procreation, we must realize that we are sons by seed. I John 3:1-2, Romans 8:3,14

 

[Cross Reference]

What is the difference between Salvation in the Old Testament and that found in the New Testament?

Christ said that the least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than the greatest of the Old Testament Prophets, John the Baptist...

What was Salvation in the OT?
What IS Salvation in Christ?

Are they different?
The same?

Arsenios

The difference lies in what the kingdom of heaven/God brings with it, i.e., the enablement to know God and receive of Him in an intimate way.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Simply, even the very least in the kingdom of heaven inherits the New Jerusalem and rules over those from the Old Testament, from the Law onward, who inherit the land.

 

[Arsenios]

I think it is obvious that if no one in the old testament went to heaven. They didn't find their salvation back there.

John 3:13
13 "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
(NKJ)

But the Old Testament Saints DID have fully the Holy Spirit, yes?

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Salvation in the OT was not as comprehensive as NT salvation.

The OT believers became sons of God by adoption. Since it was Jesus Christ who introduced and foretold of the possibility of becoming born again, it was not available until he completed his works on earth.

Christians are sons of God by seed, I Peter 1:23 We are born again conceived with seed. God gave to us of His spirit, His spirit is incorruptible. I John 4:13

The OT believers had spirit upon them. They were not born again.

God would put His spirit upon those who He selected for that, but they could lose that spirit. Saul did, David, after one of his errors, realized that he could too.

Psalm 51:11

Jesus Christ paid the price for our sins, we are born again of God's spirit, we cannot lose that spiritual seed. We cannot lose our earthly parents DNA, we cannot lose our Heavenly Father's seed in us.

We are sons of God by seed, not adoption.

God foreknew who would believe His word, Romans 8:29, and with that foreknowledge, used His wisdom to select us, to mark us out beforehand, (poorly translated predestined)

In the sense, as with adoptions, He selected us, the idea of adoption fits, but since adoption is not the same as procreation, we must realize that we are sons by seed. I John 3:1-2, Romans 8:3,14

Nice reply...

So what are we given now that the Prophets of Old did not have?

And HOW is it given to us?

And what do we need to do in order to receive it?

You say we are given seed...

What is the difference between being given seed, and John the Baptist knowing Christ while both were still in the womb, and the Seed which the Blessed Virgin conceived?

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Simply, even the very least in the kingdom of heaven inherits the New Jerusalem and rules over those from the Old Testament, from the Law onward, who inherit the land.

So it is the Kingdom of RULING OVER others??

And we will get to lord it over Moses and Elijah??

They will be planting corn and we will be their over-lords??

You probably meant something more...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

The difference lies in what the kingdom of heaven/God brings with it, i.e., the enablement to know God and receive of Him in an intimate way.

How does this happen that did not happen on the OT?

A.

 

[Cross Reference]

I am constantly amazed how many people still don't know that until Jesus Christ shed his blood on the cross no peace with God was made that would have reconciled man with Himself that would have opened the doors to heaven for the righteous.

 

[Arsenios]

I think it is obvious that if no one in the old testament went to heaven. They didn't find their salvation back there.

Before Solomon King David wrote after sinning with Solomon's mother:

"Restore unto me the JOY of Thy SALVATION...
And with Thy GOVERNING SPIRIT establish me..."
(Ps 50/51) (Jewish Bible/Christian LXX Bible numbers)

So there WAS Salvation, and it did NOT keep them out of hell...

Doesn't seem to add up, does it?

Arsenios

 

[Cross Reference]

How does this happen that did not happen on the OT?

A.

That is part of the exclusive uniqueness of the new birth.

 

[Arsenios]

I am constantly amazed how many people still don't know that until Jesus Christ shed his blood on the cross no peace with God was made that would have reconciled man with Himself that would have opened the doors to heaven for the righteous.

It amazes me too...

So what is different then? Is it just remission of sins? We have it now but did not have it then? Was there no forgiveness of sins before Christ?

Arsenios

 

[Cross Reference]

Before Solomon King David wrote after sinning with Solomon's mother:

"Restore unto me the JOY of Thy SALVATION...
And with Thy GOVERNING SPIRIT establish me..."
(Ps 50/51) (Jewish Bible/Christian LXX Bible numbers)

So there WAS Salvation, and it did NOT keep them out of hell...

Doesn't seem to add up, does it?

Arsenios

David never went to hell. He went to the abode of the dead called Paradise/ Abraham's bosom.

God's "holding tank", for the unlearned.

 

[Arsenios]

That is part of the exclusive uniqueness of the new birth.

What new birth that did not happen in OT times?

If I want this new birth, what must I do?

Arsenios

 

[Cross Reference]

It amazes me too...

So what is different then? Is it just remission of sins? We have it now but did not have it then? Was there no forgiveness of sins before Christ?

Arsenios

When you understand this you will know Jesus came to earth for more than just giving man a free pass out of hell.

 

[Arsenios]

David never went to hell. He went to the abode of the dead called Paradise/ Abraham's bosom.

God's "holding tank", for the unlearned.

Heb 11:39-40
And these all,
having obtained a good report through faith,
received not the promise:
God having provided some better thing for us,
that they without us
should not be made perfect.

So we can say that they did not go to Sheoul or Gehenna, but instead went to Paradise, but did not go to Heaven?

This sounds like the positive side of purgatory!

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

When you understand this you will know Jesus came to earth for more than just giving man a free pass out of hell.

Oh I understand THAT alright...

Do YOU understand it?

And would YOU explain it for us?

I am just moderating here for a bit...

A.

 

[Cross Reference]

What new birth that did not happen in OT times?

If I want this new birth, what must I do?

Arsenios

Seek God, count the cost and be willing to abandon your life to Him. He does the choosing based upon our heart, hunger and thirst for righteousness and not how many creeds or sinners prayers, we think we have to recite.

 

[Arsenios]

Seek God, count the cost and be willing to abandon your life to Him. He does the choosing based upon our heart, hunger and thirst for righteousness and not how many creeds or sinners prayers, we think we have to recite.

So when I DO all that, what will I receive and what will it look like and what will it be?

A.