SABBATH KEEPING

[clefty]

How do I figure that?

right...I asked a question to your statement of:

"We are no longer under the law for righteousness,"​

I don't figure that

well ok then...rejecting what I offered for you to choose from by all means answer for yourself what you meant with your statement of:

"We are no longer under the law for righteousness,"​

I simply read what God's word says that I believe it

many posters here read what God's word says and believe it...ALL claim they do...

the point is to pick your hill to die on...and let your fruit be judged...

so...please elaborate as to what you wish to contribute to this thread regarding the Sabbath with your statement:

"We are no longer under the law for righteousness,"​

 

[WonderfulLordJesus]

can you believe some claim it is "NOT FOR ME"

True, that's been my experience.

Romans 14:5-6 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

So much for sabbaths. If you were to ask me, anyway. I even highly recommend everyday as unto the Lord. Now, could we perhaps move on to a rousing debate over water baptisms, maybe tackle hard versus soft water?

 

[rstrats]

WonderfulLordJesus,
re: "Romans 14:5-6"

Romans 14 has nothing to say about the Sabbath. The subject of the chapter from start to finish has to do with what people eat. Paul is writing about asceticism. Some in the church at Rome believed Christians should eat only vegetables. Paul calls these people “weak in the faith” (verses 1-2). The stronger in faith know they could also eat meat. Nothing in God’s law prescribes vegetarianism. The stronger in faith knew they were free from non-biblical asceticism. A part of the controversy that had sprung up between the weak and the strong Christians was the esteeming of days. In Rome some people had the pagan idea that on certain days certain foods should or should not be eaten. In this whole chapter Paul was just showing that others should not be offended, particularly weak members who have not yet learned the truth about the proper Christian diet and that they should not be judged by the stronger in the faith. Again, this passage has nothing to do with the Sabbath.

 

[Right Divider]

WonderfulLordJesus,
re: "Romans 14:5-6"

Romans 14 has nothing to say about the Sabbath. The subject of the chapter from start to finish has to do with what people eat.

Read the TEXT

Rom 14:5-6 KJV One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. (6) He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Paul is talking about more than just eating there.

 

[clefty]

True, that's been my experience.

what that you come across those that claim His Ways are "NOT FOR ME"?

or that your experience is rejecting His Ways as "NOT FOR ME"?

Romans 14:5-6 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

LOL...you really think Paul is doing away with a millennium old custom and one of the commandments with this text about which day people were choosing to fast on?

You are a funny guy...

So much for sabbaths.

guess nobody thought to present this letter to the Romans at ANY of the trials Paul was at

because Jews were claiming as you do now that Paul was teaching "Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered"...the SAME slander they used against Stephen....Luke was clear it was FALSE WITNESS on Stephen's part because he did NOT teach that and because Yahushua did NOT do that...

Luke was also clear to note Paul's defense at every trial and that NOTHING was about Sabbath being done away with...ODD THAT...

ODD too that NONE of the charges Jews presented were proven...Paul was innocent...

and Paul claimed this "But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:" Acts 24:14 was he lying...I mean SABBATH was ABOLISHED right?


"Then Paul made his defense: "I have committed no offense against the law of the Jews or against the temple or against Caesar."Acts 25:8

You think abolishing the Sabbath would NOT be offensive to the Jews? LOL...you are fun!!

NOTHING STUCK as what you would claim...


Even the Sanhedrin started fighting about whether or not there was even a resurrection...IMAGINE if Paul was teaching "YUP Sabbath done away with...esteem whatever day you want"

LOL...Pharisees even asserted "NO PROBLEM" with Paul Acts 23:9

you really think they would have NO PROBLEM with Paul's letter to the Romans which you claim ABOLISHED THE SABBATH?

a letter which could EASILY HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED as it was written before this...

Even by the time Paul got to Rome they had NOT HEARD of any troubles he was causing...IMAGINE if Paul was teaching as you claim and add to that "OH YEAH we can eat swine now too"...LOL

If you were to ask me, anyway. I even highly recommend everyday as unto the Lord.

some thought a golden calf was a better way of worship...more fun ya dig?

Hey there are saints for every day...go pray at them every day...

Now, could we perhaps move on to a rousing debate over water baptisms, maybe tackle hard versus soft water?

oh my...that would be a great thread...you prolly have much to contribute there too...maybe a personal testimony to your struggle recovering from brain damaging fluoride?

But I am still more interested as to why you believe Jewish myths and false witness...

 

[clefty]

Read the TEXT


Paul is talking about more than just eating there.

Oh? do tell...what else is Paul addressing?

NOT to celebrate the Passover feast with unleavened bread of sincerity and truth? 1 Cor 5:8

 

[oatmeal]

right...I asked a question to your statement of:

"We are no longer under the law for righteousness,"​

well ok then...rejecting what I offered for you to choose from by all means answer for yourself what you meant with your statement of:

"We are no longer under the law for righteousness,"​

many posters here read what God's word says and believe it...ALL claim they do...

the point is to pick your hill to die on...and let your fruit be judged...

so...please elaborate as to what you wish to contribute to this thread regarding the Sabbath with your statement:

"We are no longer under the law for righteousness,"​

Galatians 2

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 3

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gala 4

⁴ But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

⁵ To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

⁶ And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

⁷ Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

⁸ Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

⁹ But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

¹⁰ Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.


etc, etc, etc

 

[clefty]

Galatians 2

aaaahhh yes the Celts...you know they were a pretty sophisticated cosmopolitan ancient peoples yes?

Had their own customs traditions gods...oh and calendars...can you remember that? Hold that thought to the end?

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law,

yup...so true...

but by the faith of Jesus Christ,

OF Christ...what was His faith? Buddhist? Muslim?

even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ,

again what was His faith...in us? His faith in US?

and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

yup...works NEVER justified...however once justified...then what? I mean faith compels what? NOTHING? No works befitting repentance...more LIKE Him less like our former ways?

I mean faith without works is DEAD right? So which works? Not to justified but BECAUSE WE ARE SAVED...you know “abide in Him you must LIVE AS HE DID” ask John...

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

exactly...and NOW SAVED by WHAT HE DID while we were enemies still sinners...we are GRATEFUL and wish to PLEASE HIM...you know keep His commandments...what? only 9 of 10?

Galatians 3

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

yup...AND he obeyed...ALL MY COMMANDMENTS...

7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

yup...by adoption INTO Israel of promise...you know citizens doing rules for citizens or?

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

yup...halleluYah...and in every nation there are those that are accepted by Him...you know fearing Him and doing works of righteousness...His Standard...concluded Peter

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

yup...already in the OT wilderness THIS ekklesia was full of NOT OF JACOB who were saved from Egypt...ONE LAW for native and forgeigner ALIKE

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

I would HIGHLY recommend to CONTINUETH in those things written in the book...

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

yup...Heb 11 is a FAITH hall of fame for those NOT OF JACOB even

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

yup justified because of FAITH we must NOW CONTINUETH...LOL

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

yup...please NOTE we are redeemed from the CURSE of the Law...NOT THE LAW itself...cuz well...it remains to CONTINUETH IN...

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

right...we are to ESTABLISH this LAW to teach others HIS WAYS...you know SINCE HE SAVED THEM TOO...

Why didn’t you continue in Gal 3?

Verse 27”For as many of you as were baptized into Christ HAVE PUT ON CHRIST” so what? NOT live as He lived...NOT do AS He did? NOT love as He loved...

28”There is neither Jew nor Greek...for you are all ONE in Christ Jesus” Because the law was abolished? Changed? OR are you so MAD you claim “NOT FOR ME”

Does it sound like TWO programs here? one for Jews ONLY and another “JUST GRACE” for Greeks?

29 “...IF you are Christ’s then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise...” WITH RIGHTS ENSHRINED IN THE LAW

So live like a LAWFUL SON...RIGHTFUL HEIR...grateful to the Father who took you into His LAWFUL FAMILY AND KINGDOM

Gala 4

⁴ But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

⁵ To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.[/quote] halleluYah we have a LAW that secures our rights to inheritance which He guaranteed with His death...TESTATING it is for whosoever...even these Gauls

⁶ And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

⁷ Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

by faith...adopted INTO a LAW ABIDING FAMILY...neat eh? Citizens of a kingdom...with house rules ya dig?

⁸ Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

hey LOOK Paul notes they were pagan NOT knowing Yah or keeping TORAH...but serving other gods...you know DRUIDS with their calendars of holy days and stuff...

⁹ But now, after that ye have known God,

when did they get to know Yah?

or rather are known of God,

yup...HOW DOES HE KNOW HIS OWN? They are a separate Holy people following Him His ways...

how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Paul loved the Torah...called it holy just and good...Romans 7:12 that it is spiritual verse 14 Paul delights in the Law verse 22 and thanks Yah through Yahushua that he can serve the Law of Yah verse 25

But you would have him call it weak beggarly elements to be in bondage? LOL Obviously Paul was speaking of “when ye knew NOT Yah” servicing those which are NOT Yah...

¹⁰ Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

yup on their own ancient Druid calendar and NOT the New Moons and Sabbaths which ARE shadows pointing to the good things still to come...as Paul wrote those other believing gentiles in Colossians...

etc, etc, etc

You mean “whatever” to being a son of a freewoman...inheriting a promise...BY LAW...you a lawless son?

YOU DID NOTHING to become a son but had faith and believed...you were NOT justified by Law your inheritance but by faith IN HIM what HE did...and NOW you behave in your Father’s House...as a LAWFUL SON

Fulfilling the Law...and by loving each other ...bearing each other’s burdens...JUST AS HE DID...because when you LIVE and LOVE and JUST AS He did...you fulfill the Law...duh

For NOT even those who ARE circumcised keep the Law...Gal 6:13

So walk in the Spirit...and as many as walk according to this RULE...peace and mercy be upon them...and upon the Israel of Yah...

You know...those that CONTINUETH in it and NOT fall back again to former ways when Yah did NOT know you...

 

[rstrats]

Right Divider,
re: "Paul is talking about more than just eating there."

What is there from the context of the chapter which tells you that he is writing about something else?

 

[clefty]

WonderfulLordJesus,
re: "Romans 14:5-6"

Romans 14 has nothing to say about the Sabbath. The subject of the chapter from start to finish has to do with what people eat. Paul is writing about asceticism. Some in the church at Rome believed Christians should eat only vegetables. Paul calls these people “weak in the faith” (verses 1-2). The stronger in faith know they could also eat meat. Nothing in God’s law prescribes vegetarianism. The stronger in faith knew they were free from non-biblical asceticism. A part of the controversy that had sprung up between the weak and the strong Christians was the esteeming of days. In Rome some people had the pagan idea that on certain days certain foods should or should not be eaten. In this whole chapter Paul was just showing that others should not be offended, particularly weak members who have not yet learned the truth about the proper Christian diet and that they should not be judged by the stronger in the faith. Again, this passage has nothing to do with the Sabbath.

yup...which days were better to fast on...some twice a week...

verse 14 “nothing is unclean of itself” but because it was declared unclean by the One we serve...and in serving others if they grieve over your food you are not walking in love...

a theme Paul continues in chapter 15 “We then who are strong ought to bear with the scruples of the weak and NOT to please ourselves”

⁴ ”For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope. “ for OUR learning...syanagogues in Rome were full of gentiles and reading Moses every Sabbath...Act 15:21 does it sound like Paul is teaching a new program? another way? another gospel?

⁵ ”Now may the God of patience and comfort grant you to be like-minded toward one another, according to Christ Jesus, “

Like minded in a TWO PROGRAM system? Or according to the STANDARD SET by Yahushua...how can they all be LIKE MINDED if one group keeps Sabbath and cleanliness Laws and the other group claims “NOT FOR ME”

⁶ ”that you may with one mind and one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.⁷ Therefore receive one another, just as Christ also received us, to the glory of God”

How did Christ receive us? OBEDIENT to His Father’s will...

one CHRIST MIND circumcised heart

¹⁰ Rejoice O Gentiles WITH His people...does NOT sound like separate programs

¹² “...shall rise to reign over the Gentiles”...with another Law? Divided kingdom is it?

But because of the grace given to him by Yah Paul writes MORE BOLDLY verse 15 that the Gentiles be acceptable sanctified by the Holy Spirit verse 16...in a word “to make the Gentiles OBEDIENT” verse 18... to what? “GRACE ALONE”? Or the MADness of His ways “NOT FOR ME”?

Certainly NOT! We establish the Law...LOL

Of course Paul wished to make the Gentiles acceptable and Holy...their OFFERINGS...LOL

Paul rightly argues that since the Gentiles have been PARTAKERS of their (Jerusalem's saints) SPIRITUAL things Gentiles’ DUTY is to PAY FOR IT...verse 27 LOL

And he wishes to SEAL to Jerusalem this fruit before heading to Spain...verse 28

Now imagine Paul trying to SEAL olives to a fig branch or figs from a grape vine...which those MAD at Sabbath wish to do...

Paul knows grafted branches must match those branches NOT CUT OFF for unbelief from the trunk and root...but must produce the SAME FRUIT...clean fruit and NOT made clean of itself...

 

[Right Divider]

Right Divider,
re: "Paul is talking about more than just eating there."

What is there from the context of the chapter which tells you that he is writing about something else?

Read the TEXT (see the highlighted text).

Rom 14:5-6 KJV One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. (6) He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

 

[clefty]

Read the TEXT (see the highlighted text).

Eating on certain days or not...as the man made custom was to fast...sometimes 2-3 times a week...

“Two men went up to the Set-apart Place to pray – the one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
“The Pharisee stood and began to pray with himself this way, ‘Yah, I thank You that I am not like the rest of men, swindlers, unrighteous, adulterers, or even as this tax collector.
‘I fast twice a week, I give tithes of all that I possess.’
“But the tax collector standing at a distance would not even raise his eyes to the heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘Alahim, show favor unto me, a sinner!’ Luke 18:10-13


Yet you seem pretty certain Romans 14 has to do with the Sabbath being abolished or something something "NOT FOR US"...

Please recall Paul was at the Jerusalem council and heard the conclusion of it from James...

that believing gentiles would continue hearing Moses taught in every city on every Sabbath Acts 15:21


And this letter to the synagogue in Rome was written PRIOR HIS TRIALS and yet it was NOT presented as evidence Paul taught Sabbath was abolished...

and yet here you are claiming he was doing so?

Wiki also has this:

The most probable ancient account of the beginning of Christianity in Rome is given by a 4th-century writer known as Ambrosiaster:^[17]

It is established that there were Jews living in Rome in the times of the Apostles, and that those Jews who had believed [in Christ] passed on to the Romans the tradition that they ought to profess Christ but keep the law [Torah] ... One ought not to condemn the Romans, but to praise their faith, because without seeing any signs or miracles and without seeing any of the apostles, they nevertheless accepted faith in Christ, although according to a Jewish rite.^[18]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistl...to_his_epistle​

Explains what also happened in Philippi:
Acts 16: 20" They brought them to the magistrates and said, “These men are Jews and are throwing our city into turmoil 21by promoting customs that are unlawful for us Romans to adopt or practice.”

You're obviously aware that "establishing the Law' Roman 3:31 would be annoying to those NOT WANTING to follow Him His ways His Sabbaths made for man and not just Jews...

makes people MAD even...even ignore posts and such...

 

[rstrats]

Right Divider,
re: "Read the TEXT..."

And again, the conTEXT of the chapter from the beginning to the end is concerned with issues regarding eating or not eating.

Your reference of verse 5 speaks of esteeming one day above another but says nothing about the reason for the preference. However immediately following, verse 6 continues with the context of the chapter, concerns with regard to food practices.

Verses 20 sums up Paul's reason for the chapter - "Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food..."

So to use this passage as a proof text for saying that Paul no longer believed Sabbath observance to be necessary requires anti-Sabbatarians to demonstrate that this is in fact what lies behind the statement.

 

[clefty]

Right Divider,
re: "Read the TEXT..."

And again, the conTEXT of the chapter from the beginning to the end is concerned with issues regarding eating or not eating.

Your reference of verse 5 speaks of esteeming one day above another but says nothing about the reason for the preference. However immediately following, verse 6 continues with the context of the chapter, concerns with regard to food practices.

Verses 20 sums up Paul's reason for the chapter - "Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food..."

So to use this passage as a proof text for saying that Paul no longer believed Sabbath observance to be necessary requires anti-Sabbatarians to demonstrate that this is in fact what lies behind the statement.

HalleluYah Amen...let’s eat!!! Or not...what day is this? LOL

 

[Right Divider]

Right Divider,
re: "Read the TEXT..."

And again, the conTEXT of the chapter from the beginning to the end is concerned with issues regarding eating or not eating.

Your reference of verse 5 speaks of esteeming one day above another but says nothing about the reason for the preference. However immediately following, verse 6 continues with the context of the chapter, concerns with regard to food practices.

Verses 20 sums up Paul's reason for the chapter - "Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food..."

So to use this passage as a proof text for saying that Paul no longer believed Sabbath observance to be necessary requires anti-Sabbatarians to demonstrate that this is in fact what lies behind the statement.

The CONTEXT of the entire chapter does NOT "cancel" the DAY that Paul is talking about in verses 5 and 6.

 

[clefty]

Exodus 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Israel alone was to keep the sabbath.

There is no commandment given to the church, the body of Christ to observe the sabbath.

The sabbath was a covenant. The covenants pertain only to Israel (Romans 9:4).

Ok so this has more to do with Sabbath pertaining to Israel only...which makes the thread about WHO IS ISRAEL?...

So look what Paul is equating sanctification TO:

Romans 15:¹⁵ Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,

¹⁶ That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

You think offering up the Gentiles who are NOT obedient to Him His ways is acceptable? You insist the Holy Spirit sanctified with a double standard?

¹⁷ I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God.

¹⁸ For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

Obedient to what? Their OLD FORMER ROMAN WAYS? LOL

or the New Life IN HIM HIS WAYS?...

you know...gentiles grafted INTO the Family bearing SAME FRUITS as it was ONE LAW already for NATIVE and FOREIGNER for this ekklesia when it was in the OT wilderness...

Remember the Sabbath...given to strangers within our gates?

 

[JudgeRightly]

I know you are so busy...

but if I might thank you that you include the Law in the New Covenant...HalleluYah thanks!

Of course I include it in the New Covenant, because the Bible does so.

Paul's covenant of grace, however, does not include a requirement for following the law.

As for far too long now I hear that what He taught and demonstrated prior His death which SEALED the contract is NOT part of the New Covenant.

The New Covenant was in effect after Christ rose and ascended. And then a year later, God put His plan for Israel on hold, and started working directly with the Gentiles.

NO changes after a Testator dies yes?

"For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives."
Hebrews 9:16-17

But we can readily see even His dietary lifestyle was included in the Acts 15 council.

But there was no law given.

Only admonishment for:

"that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality."

Rules of thumb, not laws.

Or do you think Paul was a hypocrite?

"For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more;and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law;to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ), that I might win those who are without law; to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you."

The 4 things required of gentiles

Well, no. The 4 things that the Jerusalem Council, by their own decree, wanted the gentiles to follow so that there wouldn't be conflict between the believers in both groups. Don't forget the reason for the entire Council in the first place!

CROWDING the synagogues every Sabbath

Cite? (Maybe you've gotten this already, as I'm not caught up on every post yet.)

were ALREADY required of them when this ekklesia was in the OT wilderness and ALREADY full of those NOT OF JACOB.

Acts 21:25 lists them again...

1) no things offered to ido...and by that we understand not offering a pig to Zeus does NOT make it clean meat yes?

2) no blo...and again draining all the blood from a dog does NOT make it clean yes?

3) nothing strangled better understood as suffocated or unknown as to cause of death...but again these Greeks should not expect road kill rat to be served right?

4) sexual immorality...even here some clarification was in order for the believing goyim to continue crowding the synagogues every Sabbath...

Again, I'd like to point out Jeremiah 31:31 and Hebrews 8:8.

Paul's covenant of grace is for the whole world, not just Israel.

Oh yeah James DID conclude that Moses would continue to be taught and heard every Sabbath...Acts 15:21

To those under the New Covenant...

Which I imagine means the other 9 commandments are ALSO included which completes the set>

And is what even the goyim NOW CLEAN were going to hear Moses go on about every Sabbath crowding into the synagogues.

I mean...you don’t mean to say that ONLY 4 things are expected of these believing Greeks right?

They are still expected NOT to steal, kill, lie, covet, worship another God, blaspheme His name, make idols, dishonor their parents right?

Under the New Covenant, Gentiles were expected to become Proselytes and follow the law.

Under Paul's covenant of grace, all are expected to love God and love one's neighbor.

Just because sexual morality

God's commandment to men, even outside of the Mosaic law, the Old and New Covenants, is for man to leave his father and mother and cling to his wife. That, by definition, excludes sexual immorality.

"Husbands, love your wives..."

and Sabbath keeping is mentioned

In Acts 15?

The word Sabbath is only mentioned once in Acts 15, and it isn't as a command to the gentiles to keep it.

as expected does NOT mean the others are omitted right?

"Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."
Romans 13:8-10

wait wut? In Acts 21 Paul makes a vow takes an oath of purity that he is NOT teaching a forsaking of the Law...but walks orderly and keeps the Law.

No, he didn't.

Read again:

"And when we had come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present. When he had greeted them, he told in detail those things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come. Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow. Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law. But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.”

Then Paul took the men, and the next day, having been purified with them, entered the temple to announce the expiration of the days of purification, at which time an offering should be made for each one of them.
Acts 21:17-26

Paul even got in trouble in Macedonia for troubling the city exceedingly being Jews teaching customs which are NOT law[f]ul for Romans to receive or observe. Acts 16:21

Ok, and?

Poor Paul was beaten and imprisoned

Yes, he was.

for teaching “Sabbath is done away with...go ahead eat anything”? LOL

I'm not sure why you think I made such an argument...

Demetrius at Ephesus accuses Paul of turning people away from his silver shrines...Acts 19:26

Yes. And?

Having other gods before the one true God is not loving the one True God.

so certainly another of the 10 laws is still considered expected for those NOT Jews...

Well, no. A violation of "love God and love your neighbor."

I could go on but I know you are busy...

Another gospel

New Covenant != Paul's covenant of grace.

another christ?

No.

Paul told King Agrippa at his tr[ia]l “and then to the Gentiles that they should repent and turn to Yah and do works befitting repentance” Acts 26:20

Yes, at the beginning of his ministry, before God told him to focus on the gentiles.

what works would Yah agree would befit a repentance to Him His ways?

Love God, love one's neighbor.

...another day Sabbath an every day Sabbath a diet of pig dog and rat? Certainly not! we establish Law Romans 3:31

Yes, we establish the law.

Why?

Because the law is a tutor to bring people to Christ.

How?

To show them that they are INCAPABLE OF KEEPING the law of God, but Christ did it for them.

His Law or?

God's Law.

Maybe Festus was right? too much learning can drive one MAD...LOL

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Paul was not MAD

Acts wasn't written until after the events contained within happened... so...

but spoke words of truth and reason. Acts 26:25

Yes, he did.

Is why he instructed the gentile Corinthians to observe the Passover festival with unleavened bread of sincerity and truth 1 Cor 5:8 so even the festivals remained...

I recommend you read 1 Corinthians 5 again.

He doesn't say to keep the feast described in the Mosaic Law.

Paul was at that Acts 15 council and STILL went to jail for teaching Romans customs not lawful for them to to receive or observe...

Yahushua said the Sabbath was made for man...a day off...no need to get MAD about it...

Ok well...I know you don’t have much time...maybe later...on a day off?

Yes, the Sabbath made for man, not the other way around.

Meaning the Sabbath is an arbitrary commandment based on the Creation week.

 

[clefty]

Of course I include it in the New Covenant, because the Bible does so.

not many Christians do include it...certainly not around here...is all

Paul's covenant of grace, however, does not include a requirement for following the law.

LOL...so what's the point? Of either His putting it into hearts and minds...or His grafting wild branches INTO the root and trunk with other branches NOT CUT OFF...

So they are NOT required because they were not listed? I mean Acts 15 only listed 5 3 dietary and 1 sexual and the Sabbath...but the those under grace CAN worship another god, make idols, blaspheme His name, dishonor parents, kill, steal, lie, covet? LOL

Lemme guess...kingdom of Israel and those grafted into it have ONLY these to keep: "You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; Honor your father and mother." Then He adds, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 19:18-19)

So cuz Yahushua left these out we CAN worship another god, make idols, do blaspheme His name, covet, oh and of course forget about da Sabbath? LOL

Oh wait...it gets even less inclusive...you claim that for the BOC the whole OT is “not for me”

The New Covenant was in effect after Christ rose and ascended. And then a year later, God put His plan for Israel on hold, and started working directly with the Gentiles.

So He lied here?

Matt 28:19

19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you.

Matt 25;32
All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate the people one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

Mark 16:15
And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

Luke 24:47
and in His name repentance and forgiveness of sins will be proclaimed to all nations, beginning in Jerusalem.


I don’t see a one year delay...but right out the gate it was for the gentiles too...

as in the exodus when this ekklesia was already full of those NOT OF JACOB so too was that first Pentecost full of those NOT OF JACOB...neat eh?

"For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives."
Hebrews 9:16-17

yes exactly what I was referencing...NO CHANGES so LIVE AS HE DID...and in your case NO CANCELLATIONS or POSTPONEMENTS of that covenant...you think His LAST WILL AND TESTAMENT can be suspended?

But there was no law given.

sure there was...before Sinai even...Sabbath for MAN not just Jews...what part of Eternal, Perfect, Immutable do you reject?...especially after Sinai FOR HIS PEOPLE...both THOSE OF JACOB AND NOT OF JACOB...ONE LAW...

Only admonishment for:

"that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality."

Rules of thumb, not laws.

LOL...

again...you really think gentiles could still worship another god make idol blaspheme His name dishonor parents, kill, steal, lie, covet...even after hearing Moses read and taught every Sabbath in every synagogue? as James concluded Acts 15:21

Or do you think Paul was a hypocrite?

not at all...he was constantly concerned about the law...Love is the fulfilling of the law. Romans 13:10 and more...

"For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all,

SERVANT? how? by LOVE and AS He LOVED...you know copy me as I copy Christ...LOVE AS CHRIST LOVES

that I might win the more;and to the Jews I became as a Jew,

became a Jew? is there a switch that turns the Jew on and off? LOL

that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law;

who are under the Law? ALL OF US especially the sinner...who has sinned? DITTO

to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ),

see? UNDER THE LAW

that I might win those who are without law; to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you."

so by this you mean to say that Paul went around and worshipped other gods, made idols, blasphemed His name, dishonored his parents, killed, stole, lied, coveted? LOL...HE ADMITTED THAT ONE...and TO STOP DOING IT...

all this lawlessness to you know...to win others? to do what MORE lawlessness?

Well, no. The 4 things that the Jerusalem Council, by their own decree, wanted the gentiles to follow so that there wouldn't be conflict between the believers in both groups. Don't forget the reason for the entire Council in the first place!

these 4 plus the Sabbath James concluded they would keep hearing Moses on Acts 15:21 WERE ALREADY IN THE OT for those coming into their gates...you know like the strangers also receiving Sabbath...

So it was not exactly their “own decree” but one ALREADY in the OT

TWO GROUPS?...you made up the two groups...

no conflict was between both groups because ALREADY NO DISTINCTION was made...Gentiles already were keeping the law...they just had to realize that clean meats offered to idols made them unclean to eat after hearing Moses fellowships on Sabbaths...just as NOT draining the blood from CLEAN meats would defile the meat and make it UNCLEAN and NOT TO BE SERVED for after hearing Moses potlucks on the Sabbath...

but you think the gentiles could come in and kill everybody or lie or steal from them ...or worship their old gods their old ways...LOL...as these were "rules of thumb" LOL

Cite? (Maybe you've gotten this already, as I'm not caught up on every post yet.)

yup Acts 13:45 got so crowded cuz most of Antioch came to hear...and that made Jews jealous...and don't forget ALL Paul’s epistles were to synagogues filling up with gentiles...

Again, I'd like to point out Jeremiah 31:31 and Hebrews 8:8.

Paul's covenant of grace is for the whole world, not just Israel.

fine...point away...

who but His people Israel survive until the end?...overcome...

you just refuse to see that ALREADY when THIS EKKLESIA was in the OT wilderness HE WAS OUR HEAD of the BODY that followed Him...and until the end...as John writes "here are they"...

To those under the New Covenant...

He was talking about the gentiles "wherefore my sentence is" therefore "but that we" and concluded with "for Moses"

19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

In other words THAT council did NOT RULE on anything that was NOT ALREADY COVERED BY MOSES already when this ekklesia was in the wilderness for the Gentiles to do..IS WHY James concludes MOSES will CONTINUE to be read to them...every Sabbath

Under the New Covenant, Gentiles were expected to become Proselytes and follow the law.

Under Paul's covenant of grace, all are expected to love God and love one's neighbor.

LOL...and with a love that INCLUDES worshipping another god? making idols? blaspheming His name? dishonoring parents? killing? stealing? lying and coveting? LOL

REALLY? How is that loving oneself and your neighbor?

BTW-This loving thingy was ALSO in the OT ALREADY...

God's commandment to men, even outside of the Mosaic law, the Old and New Covenants, is for man to leave his father and mother and cling to his wife. That, by definition, excludes sexual immorality.

"Husbands, love your wives..."

trust me the Greeks and Romans coming into the synagogues needed more clarity than that...original Greek has it as “PORNEIA” the root of Porno and you can be sure a lot of skilled artisans and craftsman needed reminders...but yes incest and homosexuality and well much to itemize and clarify...

but for the sake of brevity let's agree there is A LOT of clarity necessary as even Jews were still defiling "It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife." 1 Cor 5:1

In Acts 15?

The word Sabbath is only mentioned once in Acts 15, and it isn't as a command to the gentiles to keep it.

SUPRA...lol

"Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."
Romans 13:8-10

ummm...so we can still worship another god, make idols, blaspheme His name, dishonor parents?

Of course NOT!!...AS THERE ARE OTHER COMMANDMENTS

LOVING AS YAHUSHUA LOVED of course FULFILLS THE LAW...duh...is why John says if you claim to abide in Him you must LIVE AS HE DID...

and that DOES include any other commandment...festivals...clean diet...

No, he didn't.

oh good grief NOW WHAT? your rebellion is REEEAAAALLLLY deeply rooted...

Read again:

"And when we had come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present. When he had greeted them, he told in detail those things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come. Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow. Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law. But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.”

Then Paul took the men, and the next day, having been purified with them, entered the temple to announce the expiration of the days of purification, at which time an offering should be made for each one of them.
Acts 21:17-26

guess what king Jimmy added to the WORD HERE...

Hint it is in verse 25

As for
Περὶ (Peri)
Preposition
Strong's Greek 4012: From the base of peran; properly, through, i.e. Around; figuratively with respect to; used in various applications, of place, cause or time.

the
τῶν (tōn)
Article - Genitive Neuter Plural
Strong's Greek 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

Gentile
ἐθνῶν (ethnōn)
Noun - Genitive Neuter Plural
Strong's Greek 1484: Probably from etho; a race, i.e. A tribe; specially, a foreign one.

believers,
πεπιστευκότων (pepisteukotōn)
Verb - Perfect Participle Active - Genitive Neuter Plural
Strong's Greek 4100: From pistis; to have faith, i.e. Credit; by implication, to entrust.

we
ἡμεῖς (hēmeis)
Personal / Possessive Pronoun - Nominative 1st Person Plural
Strong's Greek 1473: I, the first-person pronoun. A primary pronoun of the first person I.

have written [them]
ἐπεστείλαμεν (epesteilamen)
Verb - Aorist Indicative Active - 1st Person Plural
Strong's Greek 1989: To write, send by letter to. From epi and stello; to enjoin, i.e. to communicate by letter.

our decision
κρίναντες (krinantes)
Verb - Aorist Participle Active - Nominative Masculine Plural
Strong's Greek 2919: Properly, to distinguish, i.e. Decide; by implication, to try, condemn, punish.

[that] they
αὐτοὺς (autous)
Personal / Possessive Pronoun - Accusative Masculine 3rd Person Plural
Strong's Greek 846: He, she, it, they, them, same. From the particle au; the reflexive pronoun self, used of the third person, and of the other persons.

must abstain
φυλάσσεσθαι (phylassesthai)
Verb - Present Infinitive Middle
Strong's Greek 5442: Probably from phule through the idea of isolation; to watch, i.e. Be on guard; by implication, to preserve, obey, avoid.

from [food]
τό (to)
Article - Accusative Neuter Singular
Strong's Greek 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

sacrificed to idols,
εἰδωλόθυτον (eidōlothyton)
Adjective - Accusative Neuter Singular
Strong's Greek 1494: Neuter of a compound of eidolon and a presumed derivative of thuo; an image-sacrifice, i.e. Part of an idolatrous offering.

[from]
καὶ (kai)
Conjunction
Strong's Greek 2532: And, even, also, namely.

blood,
αἷμα (haima)
Noun - Accusative Neuter Singular
Strong's Greek 129: Blood, literally, figuratively or specially; by implication, bloodshed, also kindred.

[from]
καὶ (kai)
Conjunction
Strong's Greek 2532: And, even, also, namely.

the meat of strangled animals,
πνικτὸν (pnikton)
Adjective - Accusative Neuter Singular
Strong's Greek 4156: Strangled (i.e. killed without letting out the blood). From pnigo; throttled, i.e. an animal choked to death.

and [from]
καὶ (kai)
Conjunction
Strong's Greek 2532: And, even, also, namely.

sexual immorality.”
πορνείαν (porneian)
Noun - Accusative Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 4202: Fornication, whoredom; met: idolatry. From porneuo; harlotry; figuratively, idolatry.


DID YOU SEE WHAT IS MISSING?

DID YOU SEE WHAT KING JIMMY ADDED?

"that they observe no such thing, save only" The oldest texts omit all these words, and they appear merely to be a marginal comment...JUST LIKE your MADness from Scofield and Darby...the irony

And then Paul was purified with them...proving he walked orderly and kept the law...

Ok, and?

well IF Paul was NOT teaching the OT LAW why would the Romans be annoyed he was teaching customs which are NOT lawful for Romans to receive or observe...

Which customs are those...”just love everybody”? LOL

Yes, he was.

and now you add insult to injury and claim Paul taught all that was for naught Paul was actually just grace and maybe a “rule of thumb” or two...LOL

I'm not sure why you think I made such an argument...

because you deny Sabbath was concluded for Gentiles in Acts 15...

Yes. And?

Having other gods before the one true God is not loving the one True God.

according to you that is NOT required or commanded for the New Program...certainly not in the Acts 15 list or in the Romans 13 one of what those in the BOC are suggested...LOL

Well, no. A violation of "love God and love your neighbor."

ok good NOW you see it...HalleluYah...

Yes exactly...making idols IS NOT included in how Yahushua loved others...or how He taught we love God or as He did...

CONGRATULATIONS...now please apply that same standard to the OTHER 9

ALL these are a violation of “love God and love your neighbor”

1. Worshipping another god
2. You JUST MENTIONED
3. Blaspheming His name
5. Dishonoring your parents
6. Killing
7. Adultery as per Acts 15 too
8. Stealing
9. Lying
10 coveting

Did I miss any? Oh yes...yes I did...

4. Forgetting about the seventh day Sabbath also per Acts 15

Now add the WAY YAHUSHUA ATE

You know clean meats prepared clean...ALSO PER ACTS 15

Oh and the festivals...you know His calendar...as Paul did copy me as I copy Christ...as He kept the festivals too...

So you IF YOU ACTUALLY DO LOVE OTHERS JUST AS YAHUSHUA LOVED YOU...well you will fulfill the Law...as Paul taught...

New Covenant != Paul's covenant of grace.

CITE

No.

if it is NOT as He lived you do NOT follow Him...but another...

Yes, at the beginning of his ministry, before God told him to focus on the gentiles.

you started this post claiming the NEW PROGRAM was introduced 1 year after ascension...

Paul converted 34 and is before Agrippa in 59...and continues with “Therefore having obtained help from Yah to this day I stand witnessing both to small and great saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses said would come 23 that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles”. Acts 26:22-23

Nothing about a NEW PROGRAM...you ADD to the word...like king Jimmy or commentary notes...and create another gospel another christ...

Love God, love one's neighbor.

awww cute...love like pizza and puppies? Love like Buddha or Muslim? Love like Hindu or Pagan? How about LOVE like you did before you were SAVED?

Ironic that this COMMANDMENT IS IN THE OT...for ISRAEL...so what is new?

Yes, we establish the law.

HalleluYah...

Why?

Because the law is a tutor to bring people to Christ.

right but then we go against that tutor...do otherwise than what it taught? Or not at all? LOL

How?

To show them that they are INCAPABLE OF KEEPING the law of God, but Christ did it for them.

LOL...His doing it for them is why they should want to...

Imagine teaching a new game to someone who really WANTS TO PLAY...teach its rules and strategy but then proclaim “but you CANT DO IT...it is IMPOSSIBLE....ONLY X did it for you...so now you don’t even have to try...” LOL

God's Law.

right 10/10 or 9/10 or...maybe not the drain the blood or maybe drain the blood from pigs and claim it is clean...LOL

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Acts 26:24 Festus claims too much learning has driven Paul MAD...the irony...which you and yours do claim Paul is MAD...

He denied it...verse 25

Acts wasn't written until after the events contained within happened... so...

so what...MAD began a few centuries ago with Jesuit Scofield and Darby...

Yes, he did.

yay we agree...

I recommend you read 1 Corinthians 5 again.

is about one in their midst being sexually immoral... Paul doesn’t sound to nonchalant about it...as you claimed “no laws” about it or it being just “rule of thumb”

Paul doesnt seem to be too “without law to win those whiteout law” about it all...in fact Paul instructs to kick him out and have NO FELLOWSHIP with those WITHIN THE CHURCH...as you cant avoid all of them in the world...Paul says to judge those inside

He doesn't say to keep the feast described in the Mosaic Law.

oh? which other feast is unleavened bread used?

Yes, the Sabbath made for man, not the other way around.

ok...good so don’t reject it...because Paul did NOT nor did those grafted into the BODY OF CHRIST that first century...and beyond...Heb 4:9

Meaning the Sabbath is an arbitrary commandment based on the Creation week.

Arbitrary? LOL

Tell you what:

You stick with believing Jews when they claim Stephen/Paul taught “Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered”...which Luke clarified was false witness and wrote of Paul’s refutation that those charges were NOT proven...

And I will go along with their claim as to when the seventh day Sabbath has been since that time...

LOL “Paul’s covenant of grace, however, does not include a requirement for following the Law”...oh my

“Only rule of thumb” LOL

I will stick to what the finger of Yah wrote...thanks...as He did...and Peter...and Paul...yup...

Read Titus one of Paul’s last letters...surely your no laws rule of thumb NEW PROGRAM should be CLEARLY apparent yes?

Instead we find:

Titus 1:

¹⁶ ”They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.”

Titus 3:

⁸ This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

¹⁴ And let our's also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

¹⁵ All that are with me salute thee. Greet them that love us in the faith. Grace be with you all. Amen.

love us how?... Like the world loves?

In the faith...which faith? Buddhist Muslim Hindu Catholic Protestant?

Eph​​​​​ 4​​:4There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism;6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

1 for 10:4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

already when this ekklesia was in the OT and already full of those NOT OF JACOB...ONE LAW...native and foreigner...

 

[clefty]

But

seeing as it gets so long...please just address these...

there was no law given.

​

Right...because His Law remained valid...

even for the gentiles grafted in matching the branches that were NOT cut off for unbelief...​

Only admonishment for:

wow really? ONLY THESE?

So they can reject the other 8 commandments? (Sabbath and adultery being listed)​

"that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality."​

you really have not addressed how these 3 dietary laws DO NOT reveal the OT still applied to these gentiles coming in.

Do you really think the Greeks could continue eating swine or dog or rat and bring them to Sabbath potluck after they heard Moses taught? As long as this unclean meat was NOT offered to idols, had ALL the blood drained or was NOT a found carcass like road kill hit by a passing chariot...LOL

OT remains for them just as it was when this ekklesia was in the OT wilderness...following Him their leader...(see? I did NOT say Him the Head of the Body... just to be nice...)​

Rules of thumb, not laws.

​

And these LAWS were ALREADY in the OT for gentiles...not only the same ones but listed in the SAME ORDER...neat eh?

Gentiles who have believed should abstain from:

things sacrificed to idols Lev 17:2-9​

from blood Lev 17:13-14​

from things strangled Lev 17:15​

and from sexualityimmorality.” Lev 18:6-26​

so it is NOT like they assembled together to come up with NEW LAW or OMIT OLD LAW and through NEW POWER...

 

[oatmeal]

aaaahhh yes the Celts...you know they were a pretty sophisticated cosmopolitan ancient peoples yes?

Had their own customs traditions gods...oh and calendars...can you remember that? Hold that thought to the end?

yup...so true...

OF Christ...what was His faith? Buddhist? Muslim?

again what was His faith...in us? His faith in US?

yup...works NEVER justified...however once justified...then what? I mean faith compels what? NOTHING? No works befitting repentance...more LIKE Him less like our former ways?

I mean faith without works is DEAD right? So which works? Not to justified but BECAUSE WE ARE SAVED...you know “abide in Him you must LIVE AS HE DID” ask John...

exactly...and NOW SAVED by WHAT HE DID while we were enemies still sinners...we are GRATEFUL and wish to PLEASE HIM...you know keep His commandments...what? only 9 of 10?

yup...AND he obeyed...ALL MY COMMANDMENTS...

yup...by adoption INTO Israel of promise...you know citizens doing rules for citizens or?

yup...halleluYah...and in every nation there are those that are accepted by Him...you know fearing Him and doing works of righteousness...His Standard...concluded Peter

yup...already in the OT wilderness THIS ekklesia was full of NOT OF JACOB who were saved from Egypt...ONE LAW for native and forgeigner ALIKE

I would HIGHLY recommend to CONTINUETH in those things written in the book...

yup...Heb 11 is a FAITH hall of fame for those NOT OF JACOB even

yup justified because of FAITH we must NOW CONTINUETH...LOL

yup...please NOTE we are redeemed from the CURSE of the Law...NOT THE LAW itself...cuz well...it remains to CONTINUETH IN...

right...we are to ESTABLISH this LAW to teach others HIS WAYS...you know SINCE HE SAVED THEM TOO...

Why didn’t you continue in Gal 3?

Verse 27”For as many of you as were baptized into Christ HAVE PUT ON CHRIST” so what? NOT live as He lived...NOT do AS He did? NOT love as He loved...

28”There is neither Jew nor Greek...for you are all ONE in Christ Jesus” Because the law was abolished? Changed? OR are you so MAD you claim “NOT FOR ME”

Does it sound like TWO programs here? one for Jews ONLY and another “JUST GRACE” for Greeks?

29 “...IF you are Christ’s then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise...” WITH RIGHTS ENSHRINED IN THE LAW

So live like a LAWFUL SON...RIGHTFUL HEIR...grateful to the Father who took you into His LAWFUL FAMILY AND KINGDOM



⁴ But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

⁵ To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

halleluYah we have a LAW that secures our rights to inheritance which He guaranteed with His death...TESTATING it is for whosoever...even these Gauls

by faith...adopted INTO a LAW ABIDING FAMILY...neat eh? Citizens of a kingdom...with house rules ya dig?

hey LOOK Paul notes they were pagan NOT knowing Yah or keeping TORAH...but serving other gods...you know DRUIDS with their calendars of holy days and stuff...

when did they get to know Yah?

yup...HOW DOES HE KNOW HIS OWN? They are a separate Holy people following Him His ways...

Paul loved the Torah...called it holy just and good...Romans 7:12 that it is spiritual verse 14 Paul delights in the Law verse 22 and thanks Yah through Yahushua that he can serve the Law of Yah verse 25

But you would have him call it weak beggarly elements to be in bondage? LOL Obviously Paul was speaking of “when ye knew NOT Yah” servicing those which are NOT Yah...

yup on their own ancient Druid calendar and NOT the New Moons and Sabbaths which ARE shadows pointing to the good things still to come...as Paul wrote those other believing gentiles in Colossians...




You mean “whatever” to being a son of a freewoman...inheriting a promise...BY LAW...you a lawless son?

YOU DID NOTHING to become a son but had faith and believed...you were NOT justified by Law your inheritance but by faith IN HIM what HE did...and NOW you behave in your Father’s House...as a LAWFUL SON

Fulfilling the Law...and by loving each other ...bearing each other’s burdens...JUST AS HE DID...because when you LIVE and LOVE and JUST AS He did...you fulfill the Law...duh

For NOT even those who ARE circumcised keep the Law...Gal 6:13

So walk in the Spirit...and as many as walk according to this RULE...peace and mercy be upon them...and upon the Israel of Yah...

You know...those that CONTINUETH in it and NOT fall back again to former ways when Yah did NOT know you...[/QUOTE]

So what are you trying to say?