Right Divider
Body part
Christ called the twelve and He called Paul.... those two callings are different.
Theology Club: Romans 11 Issues
- Thread starter Danoh
- Start date
glorydaz
Well-known member
Only in what they were called to do, right? That doesn't seem to be what is being disputed here.
Right Divider
Body part
Agreed, just making the point that we all need to be careful not to use "dictionary theology".
glorydaz
Well-known member
Yeah, but it is cool to be able to pull that stuff up when needed. I've never gotten the hang of it. So, what I'd like to know is how the word "establish" is used. I can see more than one meaning.
It can mean to place into or to make more sure or solid. I know those are very amateur definitions...I really should google and get something better, but I'm thinking you know what I'm saying. What are your thoughts?
Not to mention, the entire nation was called; way back when, 2 Chron. 7:14
It also its interesting, the various words that are all tied together as to that, Is. 44:1-2; 45:3-4 - called, chosen, election...
In this, Matt. 22:14's "many are called, but few are chosen" is in the sense that few are The Called, Rom. 11:5's "a remnant according to the election of grace."
And all that is tied to Israel's Rev. 19: 7-8's "marriage supper of the lamb...fine linen is the righteousness of saints."
Matthew 22:
11. And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12. And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14. For many are called, but few are chosen.
Right Divider
Body part
The word in Romans 16:25 is actually 'stablish'. It's not really word that is used anymore (in English anyway).
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G4741&t=KJV
glorydaz
Well-known member
Certainly the "called" can refer to Israel as the elect. Although I'm not convinced the text you cite in Matt. is talking about the remnant since gentiles were strangers brought in off the streets and offered the (garment of salvation) righteousness of faith. Matt. 22:10,11,12
And, being called "by my name" isn't the same as "called to be saints", right? I thought that is what we were talking about in Romans 1:7, Romans 1:15,16. So, when Paul speaks of coming to preach the Gospel to those in Rome, he could very well be saying they needed to hear it. 2 Thess. 2:14, 1 Cor. 1:23-24 both speaking of being called by the preaching of the Gospel.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Thanks, RD. That was very helpful. It just makes it clear that it can be either way.
glorydaz
Well-known member
I just did that with the word called. And I did the same with the word established. I don't need to study out the word "comfort" in Romans through Philemon because I am convinced I will find the same answer those last provided....that it can mean more than one thing.
Now, instead of sending me off to study, why don't you address how it is that Paul is ready to preach the gospel to them that are in Rome also..
Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
That Paul was called to the work....called to preach the Gospel which calls on people to believe (those that are in Rome also). 2 Thess.2:14
Another aspect of Paul's preaching - and Romans is chockful of this aspect more than any other, is 2 Timothy 4's:
1. I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2. Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4. And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
Preaching salvation alone is not making "full proof of thy ministry."
Thus; as Paul opens Romans he asserts that he is ready to do both: preach not only salvation, but edification.
As in 1 Corinthians 1 thru 3, one aspect saves the lost; the other establishes them, once they are saved; in the various aspects of the faith.
By the way, keep in mind I am posting to more than just you and or those posting on here.
It is why, at times, some of my words appear to be addressing someone I appear to believe needs a bit more study, or what have you.
Last edited:
glorydaz
Well-known member
Oh, well I wish you wouldn't do that, because it can be very confusing. I need straight to the point comments or I might just go off on some unnecessary tangents.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Yep! For sure!
Knowing and understanding are not the same thing.
But I have come to suspect many of us believe that is the case when reading what another holds to on one thing or another.
Its a fascinating thing, these differences in perception.
Within each's perception is the sense that whatever standard of soundness they are each looking at a thing through is...sound.
Thus, Denominationalism... and its often too close a cousin within most groups - the various "clicks."
But I have come to suspect many of us believe that is the case when reading what another holds to on one thing or another.
Its a fascinating thing, these differences in perception.
Within each's perception is the sense that whatever standard of soundness they are each looking at a thing through is...sound.
Thus, Denominationalism... and its often too close a cousin within most groups - the various "clicks."