Richard Holland: God, Time, and the Incarnation Pt 3

[S0ZO]

Sigh . . .

The whole point being, S0ZO, is that creation is temporal. Thus, temporal measurement of time is part of creation, not eternity.

Eternity is uncreate without beginning or end. How can infinity be measured?

I really wish you'd try and keep up with the flow of the conversation.

You said:

Attributes of God are not "events."

And I replied:

Is God creator or not?

Did God create, or is creation eternal?

Creation is an event. Before creation God spoke. This event was before creation. Creation is not eternal. There was time before creation and time after creation. You cannot claim that God was not before creation. He was.

 

[Nick M]

Jeremiah is declaring the actions of Israel/Judah as being against the word of God. They were never commanded by God to worship in such fashion.

Well, I believe God Almighty is running the universe, down to every detail, according to His predetermined will and good pleasure.

 

[Nick M]

We are discussing the properties of time, are we not?

There are no properties of time. It is a concept not a thing. Those you are agreeing with say the world was not created in six days. You are evil.

 

[Nang]

I really wish you'd try and keep up with the flow of the conversation.

I am trying . . . but it is not easy with all these devious twists and turns you lay out . . .

Creation is an event.

Agreed.

Before creation God spoke. This event was before creation.

When? And about what did God speak prior to creation?

Creation is not eternal.

:doh:

Agreed.

There was time before creation and time after creation.

When? Why?

You cannot claim that God was not before creation. He was.

I make no such claim.

What are you claiming?

That "time" is God?

Why?

 

[S0ZO]

Please define this "motion" you ascribe to eternal God. Do you call these "motions," "events" like S0ZO does?

Are you claiming there is a historical timeline of events that have occurred in eternity, like there have been in the temporal creation?

Do you realize this assertion would require an explanation of the beginning of the events ("motions")?

When did God first begin to move? What was the attributes of God before He (supposedly) first moved? Were they the same or different than His present attributes in any way?

Can you defend this biblically?

Can you say that God never moved before creation? That He never communicated? There were events before creation. The point is, God is eternal, creation is not, and there were events before creation that don't include creation.

 

[Nang]

There are no properties of time.

Well, my exact argument is, I contend the properties of time are temporal in nature, only.

It is a concept not a thing.

How can "concepts" of nothingness, be defined by and subjected to measure? Literal, creational measures, according to natural law?

Those you are agreeing with say the world was not created in six days. You are evil.

God only knows where your mind travels, or who you think to associate me with . . . but for the TOL record . . . I am a creationist that believes in the literal creation of world by the ex nihilo power of the Creator, accomplished in totality, in THE TIME of six, 24-hour days.

 

[Nang]

Can you say that God never moved before creation? That He never communicated? There were events before creation.

I confess and believe that Godly "movement" and "communication" amongst the Triune Godhead, were the results of God's Being . . . they were not extraneous "events."

The point is, God is eternal, creation is not

Agreed.

, and there were events before creation that don't include creation.

Well, if you believe this and desire to teach this, the onus is upon you to prove this. What were these "events" and where do you garner this info from Holy Scripture?

 

[S0ZO]

When? And about what did God speak prior to creation?

"Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

God spoke the world into existence. He spoke before there was creation. Really, Nang, you are being rather silly about this. To claim that you must have a verse that says God did something/anything before creation is absurd. Creation is not eternal. Only God is eternal.

 

[S0ZO]

I confess and believe that Godly "movement" and "communication" amongst the Triune Godhead, were the results of God's Being . . . they were not extraneous "events."

If you move twice or communicate twice, that is two different events. Seriously, you are just running from the truth here because some idiot once said that God created time (which is not Biblical).

 

[Nang]

"Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

God spoke the world into existence. He spoke before there was creation.

Yes. This is the doctrine of ex nihilo, to which I hold.

Really, Nang, you are being rather silly about this. To claim that you must have a verse that says God did something/anything before creation is absurd. Creation is not eternal. Only God is eternal.

Indeed ^^^^ . . What I say^^^^

What evidence do you possess of supposed "happenings" ("events" or "motions") in eternity (before, during, or after God's ex nihilo creation of the universe?)

Instead, you have been rather silly throughout this entire thread, insisting that time; i.e. the ex nihilo and temporal creation of God, is not just a creative action of God, but part of the attributes of the eternal Godhead. (Without any scriptural basis or evidence at all.)

 

[Nang]

If you move twice or communicate twice, that is two different events. Seriously, you are just running from the truth here because some idiot once said that God created time (which is not Biblical).

Well, it has been two days, and you have provided no proof or scriptural evidence at all, that time is eternal, rather than temporal.

None.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Looks like a refresh is needed:

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53669

 

[S0ZO]

Well, it has been two days, and you have provided no proof or scriptural evidence at all, that time is eternal, rather than temporal.

None.

You're a lying witch.

 

[S0ZO]

Looks like a refresh is needed:

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53669

I agree. Everyone should take another look at your stupidity.

 

[S0ZO]

Y
What evidence do you possess of supposed "happenings" ("events" or "motions") in eternity (before, during, or after God's ex nihilo creation of the universe?)

I just gave it to you! Are you that drunk, that it has to be repeated to you over and over again? You are a complete idiot.

Instead, you have been rather silly throughout this entire thread, insisting that time; i.e. the ex nihilo and temporal creation of God, is not just a creative action of God, but part of the attributes of the eternal Godhead. (Without any scriptural basis or evidence at all.)

You are full of crap.

God is creator. He spoke creation into existence. That is an event BEFORE creation. Moron.

You really are the most stubborn, pigheaded, old hag on this site.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

...Are you that drunk...? You are a complete idiot.

You are full of crap.

... Moron.

You really are the most stubborn, pigheaded, old hag on this site.

And so it begins. It never takes very long before the meltdown begins. Welcome back, Sozo, Mystery, Madman, Outlaw, Door, Ghost, S0ZO, etc. :AMR:

AMR

 

[Nang]

And so it begins. It never takes very long before the meltdown begins. Welcome back, Sozo, Mystery, Door, Ghost, S0ZO, etc. :AMR:

AMR

It is inevitable, AMR.

But, this is how I know I won the debate . . .

 

[Nang]

I just gave it to you! Are you that drunk, that it has to be repeated to you over and over again? You are a complete idiot.

You are full of crap.

God is creator. He spoke creation into existence. That is an event BEFORE creation. Moron.

You really are the most stubborn, pigheaded, old hag on this site.

Nope.

No "events" before creation.

God spoke, and the earth was formed, instantaneously, out of nothing.

The "nothing" proves your theory wrong. . . wrong . . . wrong.

God spoke further, and created the measures (time, boundaries, laws, parameters, properties, and inhabitants) of His temporal world.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

It is inevitable, AMR.

But, this is how I know I won the debate . . .

Exactly.

 

[S0ZO]

But, this is how I know I won the debate . . .

You're deceived and a liar. I emphatically proved your false view of God to be a joke, and that YOU and the pervert you bow to (AMR) is a joke. Your whole demon possessed, Christ-hating cult (reformed theology / Calvinism) is a joke. You are both piles of dung who not only have no hope, but want to spread your religious feces all over the world.

You deny that God is creator.
You deny that God created the world by speaking it into existence.
You deny that He spoke creation into existence BEFORE it existed.
You deny that speaking the world into existence is an event.


You and the pervert (AMR) ALWAYS resort to blaming my "name-calling" (which is appropriate and accurate), when you LOSE a debate, and have no answer to your dung infested religion being exposed.