pacifism for true Jesus' followers.

[tetelestai]

If we were to kill all the evil people, there wouldn't be very many people left on the earth.

That's my point. Yet you guys still think you can.

You guys are more like Post-Millennialists than Dispensationalists.

It has to really suck being a Dispie. On one hand you guys need the world to become really, really evil so your rapture can take place, but then at the same time you guys try to fight evil.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

How's it going Globalwarming Boy?

How does Globalwarming have anything to do with what Climate is saying? Climate could advocate for GlobalWarming awareness and I would still respect his opinion.

You would let your wife and daughter get raped! Pish-Posh knuckle head!

 

[JudgeRightly]

The book of Revelation was written before 70AD.

No it wasn't, stop trying to revise history. That or show your evidence that it was.

You better go back to Dispensationalism 101.

You Dispies can't claim Israel's "prophetic clock" stopped somewhere in Mid-Acts,

Saul's (aka Paul) conversion was the cutting off of the nation of Israel, and the grafting in of the Gentiles. This occurred about one year after Christ's resurrection.

then at the same time claim God gave a Revelation to John that pertained only to Israel decades after the "prophetic clock" allegedly stopped.

Why not? God says He's not done with Israel. I would tend to believe Him.

Revelation was written before 70AD,

Either prove it, or stop saying it.

and most of what was prophesied in Revelation happened in 70AD. Therefore when we read it today, most of it has already happened.

Revelation is an entire book of prophecy that must occur IN ORDER, and it all must happen, not just bits and pieces here and there. ALL of it.

So tell me, when did Jesus come back? When was the battle of Armageddon?

(Rev 1:1) The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place....

"what must soon take place" does not mean 1,900+ years and still counting.

Did Jesus say he was coming back soon after his resurrection?

Has He returned yet?

 

[tetelestai]

Either prove it, or stop saying it.

Can you prove it was written after 70AD?

Also, Rev 1:1 proves you wrong too. Rev 1:1 says the events would SOON take place.

The writings of Josephus (who was a eyewitness to the events of 70AD) confirm the prophecies in Revelation were fulfilled in 70AD.

 

[JudgeRightly]

That's my point. Yet you guys still think you can.

Your point is a straw-man.

No one here wants to kill anyone (no matter how evil) unless it's absolutely necessary, and we would rather the government do it, because it's the government's responsibility.

You guys are more like Post-Millennialists than Dispensationalists.

It has to really suck being a Dispie. On one hand you guys need the world to become really, really evil so your rapture can take place, but then at the same time you guys try to fight evil.

What kind of logic is that?

Stop it with the straw-man arguments.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Can you prove it was written after 70AD?

It's been proven. Go read this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation#CITEREFStuckenbruck2003

Also, Rev 1:1 proves you wrong too. Rev 1:1 says the events would SOON take place.

The writings of Josephus (who was a eyewitness to the events of 70AD) confirm the prophecies in Revelation were fulfilled in 70AD.

Again, after His resurrection, when did Jesus say he was going to return?

Has he returned yet?

 

[tetelestai]

Here is just one example of the writings of Josephus confirming the prophecies in Revelation were fulfilled in the first century:

(Rev 16:19) And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

Josephus:

“The sedition at Jerusalem was revived, and parted into three factions, and that one faction fought against the other…" - Wars 5.1.1

We're getting off topic. This is a thread about Pacifism.

 

[tetelestai]

Again, after His resurrection, when did Jesus say he was going to return?

Before the generation of His contemporaries all passed away.

Has he returned yet?

Yes, He returned in 70AD.

Was Jesus not telling the truth when He said that some would not taste death before He returned?

Was Jesus not telling the truth when He said He would return before the generation of His contemporaries passed away?

 

[Lon]

Do some research on soldiers and policemen who have killed people. Most of them can't cope with it afterwards, and need psychiatric care.

Some do, it isn't as high as you think. Only 60% even have one Post Traumatic episode. About 10% have debilitating PTSD.

For police officers, it is higher.

A very large percentage of soldiers who return home commit suicide because of the killings they did, or saw.

:nono: I don't know where you are getting your information. A quick look at .gov sites is giving me my statistics. Of military, it is the ones that are disabled by combat injury that have an inordinate suicide rate. Military #'s tend to reflect the overall society of about 20 per 100k.

It's one thing to post on TOL and say you would kill someone to save someone else, but in real life, the people who have really killed another human being, have a really hard time dealing with it.

I would hate it, but would still do it because I believe God has called me to the task of defending my family. It did take me awhile to get to this, but it is what I believe is faithful to God, for me.

Getting the statistics correct, should help for informed and prayerful decisions and stances.

 

[meshak]

This one?


If you don't want my input, I don't mind. If you do, I'm here.

I'm interested in it, if you agree I am talking about the topic and helping the conversation.
When that no longer is the case, you go ahead and tell me it is time to leave, if you would please.

Thank you -Lon

I am asking you because I believe you are one of enablers who are misrepresenting Jesus to the world.

So I want you to stick around.

thank you.

Do you see anything wrong with my OP?

 

[meshak]

not according to tet:

I am sure he has his reason to believe that.

You ask him.

I am sure of my statements.

 

[marhig]

Where does it end? I see people saying that we must fight back. But, where do we stop. One side bombs, the other retaliates, and innocents on both sides keep dying. And many families lose mother's, father's, children, sisters and brothers, homes etc. because of hated and war. I've lived among it and I've seen first hand what war and hatred can do. I've seen some awful things. I know how devastating fighting and war is, it's horrendous and as the hardness grows, the hatred goes deeper and deeper and passes to the children.

I don't like seeing anyone being hurt or killed. But do we go in and do exactly what they have done and kill others? Is that right? Look at what war has done in places like Iraq and Syria. Someone told me that Syria was a beautiful country before the war, so I was looked at photos online. I was so shocked. The pictures we're all colourful before, and then after, they showed the same places demolished wrecked by war, and all the colour was gone and everything was grey. This is like Satan, his hatred destroys and demolishes anything he can, and he changes the beauty that God creates to a colourless devastation and he brings suffering and pain.

I couldn't believe the devastation that I saw in Syria, where and when do we stop, how many innocents have to die. Man is so destructive, we fight and kill and destroy, our flesh always wants to fight, only God can help us to overcome this. Can you imagine a world that followed Jesus? Love your enemies, do good to those that hate you, bless those that curse you, and pray for those who dispitefuly use you.

Below is one of the pictures I saw of Syria, before and after, where does it end?

 

[Lon]

I am asking you because I believe you are one of enablers who are misrepresenting Jesus to the world.

So I want you to stick around.

thank you.

:e4e:

Do you see anything wrong with my OP?

No, nothing wrong and I believe it can help in a lot of ways. We are to be wise as serpents, and I think that takes study as well as
keeping in mind the words of God and His scriptures.

I think it a topic that can cross barriers as well. You have said in the past, you support police. Somehow, I have to try to be gentle as a dove.

God has rescued me a couple of times. One time, I went up to two guys and handed them a small book of Romans. Inadvertently, I had walked upon a drug deal. Because I handed out scripture, the one guy got back into his car and drove away. The drug dealer got angry and came after me like he was going to try and punch my lights out. I simply said "You are going to hit me because I cared enough about your soul to give you a portion of scriptures????" Something clicked in his head, and he walked away.

I have a thread on God delivering people from evil men's hands (violently so be warned).

 

[Lon]

Where does it end? I see people saying that we must fight back.....
Below is one of the pictures I saw of Syria, before and after, where does it end?

Spoiler

I'm not sure how to address nations. Arabs killing Arabs is even harder because they don't like interference by anybody else.
Assad threw chemical weapons at neighborhoods where resistance was coming from. The UN asked the President to do something about it

Peaceably, we can pray, urge sanctions, stop buying oil directly from tyrants, and perhaps help with humanitarian efforts in some way.

 

[marhig]

Peaceably, we can pray, urge sanctions, stop buying oil directly from tyrants, and perhaps help with humanitarian efforts in some way.

Yes :thumb:

 

[KingdomRose]

You realize that He didn't say "cast your sword away," right? He said, "put it back in it's place"! Meaning it had a place on his belt that was appropriate for use.

You and your ilk will go to ANY lengths to rationalize your fondness for war. You will twist Jesus' words right around his head. You even forgot that last part of the verse...."all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword." (KJV) Jesus wasn't at all for any kind of combat, saying plainly at Matthew 5:44, "Continue to love your enemies." He didn't have anything against defending one's home or even oneself, but learning ways to kill a man, then going out and looking for a fight? Not on your life.

BTW, don't even bring up this nation protecting our freedom, blah, blah, blah. This nation engaged in war after the horror of 9-11 by going after Sadam Hussein who wasn't even involved in 9-11! It took ten years and untold thousands of lives lost before bin Laden got his just deserts. And terrorism has gotten worse. You can't justify war.

 

[KingdomRose]

If someone steals from you $1000, should you turn the other cheek and give them another $1000? Your position is unworkable.

Jesus meant that we should not look for a fight, or, start one. If someone insults us in any way we would try to get out of the situation by attempting to make peace, but if that doesn't work and the bully keeps after us, there is no saying against defending oneself.

 

[KingdomRose]

Every single one of those verses is directed towards individuals, not governments. That means that it would be wrong to use them as governmental policy towards criminals, both foreign and domestic.

Aren't governments made up of people? If every government applied those verses, there would be no war. There can be other ways set in place to deal with the evil things people do. There has to be a better way to deal with crime, because too many innocent people get killed in war situations.

 

[KingdomRose]

if someone kills an innocent child, should we, as followers of Christ, offer them another child to murder?

Oh stop. It was just brought out that innocent children are regularly killed in these insane wars of the nations. JudgeRightly even said that it's to be expected. What kind of loving idea is that? Do you realize how many innocent children have been killed in the wars that have happened since WWI? Never mind before that. Don't talk about defending innocent children when you would go out and destroy the children of another country.

 

[meshak]

:e4e:


No, nothing wrong and I believe it can help in a lot of ways. We are to be wise as serpents, and I think that takes study as well as
keeping in mind the words of God and His scriptures.

I think it a topic that can cross barriers as well. You have said in the past, you support police. Somehow, I have to try to be gentle as a dove.

God has rescued me a couple of times. One time, I went up to two guys and handed them a small book of Romans. Inadvertently, I had walked upon a drug deal. Because I handed out scripture, the one guy got back into his car and drove away. The drug dealer got angry and came after me like he was going to try and punch my lights out. I simply said "You are going to hit me because I cared enough about your soul to give you a portion of scriptures????" Something clicked in his head, and he walked away.

I have a thread on God delivering people from evil men's hands (violently so be warned).

You don't think Christians in the military is gross misrepresentation of Jesus?