pacifism for true Jesus' followers.

[KingdomRose]

Every sin, even murder.

People don't go to heaven or hell based on sins. If they did, everyone would go to hell.

People go to heaven or hell based on faith in Christ Jesus. Those who have faith in Christ Jesus have eternal life, those who don't go to hell.

Sins have absolutely nothing to do with it. They were ALL paid for at the cross with His blood.

You don't seem to understand that there are non-deliberate sins (which we inherit from Adam), and then there are deliberate sins which are NOT under the auspices of Jesus' ransom sacrifice. (Hebrews 10:26-31) It really is important what we DO.

 

[KingdomRose]

Here's what Paul said about the government enforcing the death penalty:

So Paul said, “I stand at Caesar’s judgment seat, where I ought to be judged. To the Jews I have done no wrong, as you very well know.For if I am an offender, or have committed anything deserving of death, I do not object to dying; but if there is nothing in these things of which these men accuse me, no one can deliver me to them. I appeal to Caesar.” - Acts 25:10-11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts25:10-11&version=NKJV

He is affirming the government's right to put people to death who deserve it.

That is true. The government can shed a man's blood if he has shed another man's blood. (Genesis 9:6) However, this does not pertain to war or a man taking revenge on another man of his own volition.

 

[meshak]

That is true. The government can shed a man's blood if he has shed another man's blood. (Genesis 9:6) However, this does not pertain to war or a man taking revenge on another man of his own volition.

Christians have no say in what the governments do because they are of the world.

His followers are not of the world.

So even the government engage in the war, Christians should not have anything to do with it.

 

[KingdomRose]

so we can "overcome evil" but we can't "resist evil"?




how do we use "good" to stop the evil man who murdered these children from murdering more children?

This is what WAR does! Those poor beautiful children are the casualties of war.

 

[KingdomRose]

1) If you had the opportunity to stop a man from being beaten to death that you didn't know... but had to stab the person attacking them... would you?

2) If your mother and father were in front of you... and about to be brutalized and beaten to death by an attacker... all in front of you, and you had a gun to stop it... would you?

3) If you have a child and they were being beaten to death in front of you... and you had a gun.... would you use it?

4) If you had a 6 year old daughter and you caught a man about to violate and stab her... and you had to shoot him to stop it... would you?

5) If someone broke into your house while you were home and robbed you blind... would you let them?

I would answer YES to all of your questions except #5. All those situations are very different from joining the military of any country, learning to kill and supporting any war. I don't believe that Jesus prohibits defending our families and other victims of terrible violence. He is talking about a whole outlook, how we feel in our hearts. Is our "enemy" someone in another country just because he's different? Just because some big-shots in our government tell us that they are our enemy? EVERYONE is our "neighbor," as Jesus tells us with the parable of the Good Samaritan. I wonder what Jesus would've said that the Good Samaritan would've done if he had encountered the robbers beating the Jew in front of him. Would he have tried to defend the Jew? Probably.

 

[KingdomRose]

I think the following scene from the movie "The Witness" applies to this thread:

Well, I would've used my strength to somehow get the horses and carts around those vehicles blocking the road, trying to get them to move peaceably, but if there was no way around them and I couldn't move them with my strength, I would turn around and leave the way I came. If anyone ran after the wagons and caught up with us and climbed on one of them, THEN I would punch him in the face. I wouldn't have handled it the way he did.

 

[KingdomRose]

I disagree.

Harrison Ford showed no love, he pummeled the guy.

Be honest, when you watched you that, you really wanted Harrison Ford to beat the crap out that guy right?

Not me. I was waiting to see how the old guy was going to handle it. He might well have turned around. If the young punk ran after him and tried to physically harm him or any of the others, and they couldn't get away from him, THEN he would deserve some righteous indignation.

 

[KingdomRose]

Were you in the military... ever? I wish [MENTION=8957]dodge[/MENTION] was here to set your butt straight! Do you even understand that the men that take their own lives are even heroes! They served in all that mess to protect civilians!

Do you claim the safety of a government and do you live in a "nice neighborhood"?

I give a hug and some money to any soldier I see on the wayside somewhere asking for help. They are brave, unselfish people who believe they are doing something good. They deserve to be taken care of by their government when they come home, and most of them are not. They have to rely on merciful organizations like "Wounded Warriors" to give them what they need, when their own government who sent them into harm's way does practically nothing for them. They are, in a way, heroes, though they are not serving in all that mess to protect civilians. In reality they are being USED as pawns to protect the wealth and positions of greedy selfish old men to whom the bottom line is always "how can we keep power and wealth??" Have you ever given any thought as to why this war that Bush started has gone on for 15 years? It hasn't been to protect civilians, I guarantee you.

 

[KingdomRose]

Well... someone needs to take the guns away from the police and disband all violence against poor individuals that destroy the weak and take advantage of the meek....

Right...? You're cool with that? Maybe we should disband the military too... right? Who needs it.

Are you okay with living in the city with no police?

Get something straight. The police and the military are two different things. We need the police or our cities would descend into absolute chaos. We do not need the military, which just uses impressionable people to carry out horrendous assignments that no person should ever have to do....and leaving their homes and families to do it! They should be with their families, who do not get well taken care of by the government. Their wives and children are left to struggle on their own, and when the man is killed they have even less to navigate life with. It's a big mess and it's Satanic.

 

[KingdomRose]

Can you prove it was written after 70AD?

Also, Rev 1:1 proves you wrong too. Rev 1:1 says the events would SOON take place.

The writings of Josephus (who was a eyewitness to the events of 70AD) confirm the prophecies in Revelation were fulfilled in 70AD.

Every scholar knows it was written around 98 A.D. Better think again.

 

[KingdomRose]

Where does it end? I see people saying that we must fight back. But, where do we stop. One side bombs, the other retaliates, and innocents on both sides keep dying. And many families lose mother's, father's, children, sisters and brothers, homes etc. because of hated and war. I've lived among it and I've seen first hand what war and hatred can do. I've seen some awful things. I know how devastating fighting and war is, it's horrendous and as the hardness grows, the hatred goes deeper and deeper and passes to the children.

I don't like seeing anyone being hurt or killed. But do we go in and do exactly what they have done and kill others? Is that right? Look at what war has done in places like Iraq and Syria. Someone told me that Syria was a beautiful country before the war, so I was looked at photos online. I was so shocked. The pictures we're all colourful before, and then after, they showed the same places demolished wrecked by war, and all the colour was gone and everything was grey. This is like Satan, his hatred destroys and demolishes anything he can, and he changes the beauty that God creates to a colourless devastation and he brings suffering and pain.

I couldn't believe the devastation that I saw in Syria, where and when do we stop, how many innocents have to die. Man is so destructive, we fight and kill and destroy, our flesh always wants to fight, only God can help us to overcome this. Can you imagine a world that followed Jesus? Love your enemies, do good to those that hate you, bless those that curse you, and pray for those who dispitefuly use you.

Below is one of the pictures I saw of Syria, before and after, where does it end?

War is pure hell, and God has nothing to do with it. If the churches preached what Jesus preached there would be no war like we see today.

 

[tetelestai]

Every scholar knows it was written around 98 A.D. Better think again.

LOL....is that the best you can do?

John was a contemporary of Jesus. Jesus died in 30AD. How old would John have been in 98AD (68 years later)?

According to most "scholars" the average lifespan of a male in the first century was 30 - 35 years.

 

[KingdomRose]

I'm not sure how to address nations. Arabs killing Arabs is even harder because they don't like interference by anybody else.
Assad threw chemical weapons at neighborhoods where resistance was coming from. The UN asked the President to do something about it

Peaceably, we can pray, urge sanctions, stop buying oil directly from tyrants, and perhaps help with humanitarian efforts in some way.

That IS one way to deal with the insanity....stop buying oil from the demons. But the big powerful West doesn't want to hurt the big Muftis' feelings I guess. Or maybe the oil lobby in the U.S. talks louder than what Trump and his handlers can think of. Or maybe the politicians just don't care.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Get something straight. The police and the military are two different things. We need the police or our cities would descend into absolute chaos. We do not need the military, which just uses impressionable people to carry out horrendous assignments that no person should ever have to do....and leaving their homes and families to do it! They should be with their families, who do not get well taken care of by the government. Their wives and children are left to struggle on their own, and when the man is killed they have even less to navigate life with. It's a big mess and it's Satanic.

This is the second dumbest thing you've ever said.

Nice to see you need the police. Rotfl... You are worried about your own skin and are naive to the way countries work.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

I give a hug and some money to any soldier I see on the wayside somewhere asking for help. They are brave, unselfish people who believe they are doing something good. They deserve to be taken care of by their government when they come home, and most of them are not. They have to rely on merciful organizations like "Wounded Warriors" to give them what they need, when their own government who sent them into harm's way does practically nothing for them. They are, in a way, heroes, though they are not serving in all that mess to protect civilians. In reality they are being USED as pawns to protect the wealth and positions of greedy selfish old men to whom the bottom line is always "how can we keep power and wealth??" Have you ever given any thought as to why this war that Bush started has gone on for 15 years? It hasn't been to protect civilians, I guarantee you.

I applaud your support of our troops.

I don't believe you understand the Middle East.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

I would answer YES to all of your questions except #5. All those situations are very different from joining the military of any country, learning to kill and supporting any war. I don't believe that Jesus prohibits defending our families and other victims of terrible violence. He is talking about a whole outlook, how we feel in our hearts. Is our "enemy" someone in another country just because he's different? Just because some big-shots in our government tell us that they are our enemy? EVERYONE is our "neighbor," as Jesus tells us with the parable of the Good Samaritan. I wonder what Jesus would've said that the Good Samaritan would've done if he had encountered the robbers beating the Jew in front of him. Would he have tried to defend the Jew? Probably.

I gave you a like for being willing to look out for family in 1-4.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Well, I would've used my strength to somehow get the horses and carts around those vehicles blocking the road, trying to get them to move peaceably, but if there was no way around them and I couldn't move them with my strength, I would turn around and leave the way I came. If anyone ran after the wagons and caught up with us and climbed on one of them, THEN I would punch him in the face. I wouldn't have handled it the way he did.

I gave you a like for speaking about doing something instead of nothing.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

This is what WAR does! Those poor beautiful children are the casualties of war.

This is the third dumbest thing you've ever said.

There is something far more sinister than war that killed those children.

 

[marhig]

Christians have no say in what the governments do because they are of the world.

His followers are not of the world.

So even the government engage in the war, Christians should not have anything to do with it.

I totally agree :thumb:

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

I totally agree :thumb:

If one is unwilling to be part of the solution... they are rapidly part of the problem. Everyone can blame those with burden of leadership... but few press on... bloodied and determined to help others.

Teddy R said it best...

"It is not the critic who counts. ... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly ... who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat."

A bunch of Israelites scoffed at Goliath... but only one small Shepherd boy had the faith to "DO" something!