ECT Other Sheep...Not of This Sheep Pen

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
Let us look at this verse:

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love" (Eph.1:4).​

Once a person is "in Him" or "in Christ" he is saved:

"Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory" (2 Tim.2:10).​

So we can see that being chosen before the foundation of the world is in regard to salvation since the elect are chosen "in Him." In other words, no one can be chosen "in Him" unless salvation is first secured.

And since the "other sheep" are already His sheep before they even hear the voice of the Lord then I cannot see that it is possible that Ephesians 1:4 answers anything about this subject.

"I have (present tense) other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen (future tense) to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd" (Jn.10:16).​

Come off it, how can the salvation which happens today precede the election [being chosen in Him] before the world began?

Paul says those whom God foreknew He also elected [chose] you are saying that He didn't know. How can He plan, predestine YOU to be saved if He did not foreknow you?

It all begins with foreknowledge.

The most precious doctrine in the bible beside salvation. God knew ME, He chose me, He planned my life...how can it fail? He has loved ME from everlasting to everlasting.

Hallelujah, no wonder I love Him.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
But it is in and through Christ. That's how Jn 6 puts it. The Father's will is that all who believe on His son will be saved through him. There is never fatalism or determinism in Christian Gospel theology.
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
But it is in and through Christ. That's how Jn 6 puts it. The Father's will is that all who believe on His son will be saved through him. There is never fatalism or determinism in Christian Gospel theology.

Why change bible words? the bible says predestination you say determinism.

Everything is planned, of COURSE it is
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Come off it, how can the salvation which happens today precede the election [being chosen in Him] before the world began?

The Lord looks into the future and only chooses "believers" for salvation:

"But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth" (2 Thess.2:13).​

So no one is chosen for salvation until they believe and are placed into the Body of Christ.
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
The Lord looks into the future and only chooses "believers" for salvation:

"But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth" (2 Thess.2:13).​

So no one is chosen for salvation until they believe and are placed into the Body of Christ.

So there is some good thing in you which is not in others.....this ability to believe, to discern truth.

I don't think so, I think God gives us the faith to believe

If you were sat with the Lord at table and He said "you did not choose Me but I chose you" would you dare to deny it?

You quote the scripture yourself. "God from the beginning hath chosen you to salvation...."

Why not simply believe that?

Who He foreknew....but you say who He did not foreknow He also chose...listen the very act of choosing is to distinguish between persons.

The sanctification of the Spirit comes from Him, the ability to believe the truth comes from Him.
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
You need to know that there are tares and wheat
goats and sheep
doves and vipers
children of God and children of the devil

YOU don't who is who but God does, He KNOWS who Cain is and He knows who Abel is.

Dammit He put them both in the womb....why is it so hard to understand?
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
People think God is in a frenzy of anxiety...who can I save?


...He has everything under perfect control, perfectly planned.

I believe in the wider mercy, a BILLIONfold wider mercy. I doesn't BELIEVE billions of human souls will be in hell.

Because election and predestination is to be conformed to the likeness of the Son of God, we are chosen to be a city set upon a hill, to lead men to God.

Being chosen and predestined to be conformed to Christ does not preclude others from being saved. God placed Cain and Abel in the womb together in hope
 

God's Truth

New member
You lying toad

God chooses sinners, the disobedient.
Are you kidding? ALL ARE SINNERS. Every human being is a sinner.

God chooses to save those who obey.


Out of sheer mercy He brings them to confess that they are undeserving sinners.

Your message is from Satan...be warned.

I give scripture for my beliefs.

GOD SAYS HE CHOOSES TO SAVE THOSE WHO OBEY.

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

Matthew 18:3 "I assure you," He said, "unless you are converted and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Acts 10:35 but that in every nation those who fear Him and live good lives are acceptable to Him.

Matthew 3:2 and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near."

Acts 13:26 "Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.

Cornelius feared God and did what was right, see Acts 10:22.

Psalm 50:23 Whoever sacrifices a thank offering honors Me, and whoever orders his conduct, I will show him the salvation of God."

Jesus saves those he accepts, see Acts 15:8.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

There are many more.

You called the Word of God from Satan!
 

God's Truth

New member
So there is some good thing in you which is not in others.....this ability to believe, to discern truth.

I don't think so, I think God gives us the faith to believe

If you were sat with the Lord at table and He said "you did not choose Me but I chose you" would you dare to deny it?

You quote the scripture yourself. "God from the beginning hath chosen you to salvation...."

Why not simply believe that?

Who He foreknew....but you say who He did not foreknow He also chose...listen the very act of choosing is to distinguish between persons.

The sanctification of the Spirit comes from Him, the ability to believe the truth comes from Him.

You have no understanding of God's Word. You simply chose to believe what teachers said that tickled your ears.

It must have seemed as if the Jews were cut off forever; however, God foreknew the Jews and they have a chance to be saved too. God had a relationship with the Jews before, and those He foreknew, the Jews, He also allowed to be saved through Jesus.
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
Are you kidding? ALL ARE SINNERS. Every human being is a sinner.

God chooses to save those who obey.




I give scripture for my beliefs.

GOD SAYS HE CHOOSES TO SAVE THOSE WHO OBEY.

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

Matthew 18:3 "I assure you," He said, "unless you are converted and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Acts 10:35 but that in every nation those who fear Him and live good lives are acceptable to Him.

Matthew 3:2 and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near."

Acts 13:26 "Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.

Cornelius feared God and did what was right, see Acts 10:22.

Psalm 50:23 Whoever sacrifices a thank offering honors Me, and whoever orders his conduct, I will show him the salvation of God."

Jesus saves those he accepts, see Acts 15:8.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

There are many more.

You called the Word of God from Satan!

Your message turns God's truth into a lie...you can't convert an become like unto a little child, no more than you can born yourself again...but you must be born again...so born yourself again.

God must do it.

Your message is from Satan.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
So there is some good thing in you which is not in others.....this ability to believe, to discern truth.

The gospel comes in the power of the Holy Spirit. It is absolutey true and since it comes in the power of the Holy Spirit there does not need to be any good thing in anyone to believe it.

But you seem to think that the gospel is impotent to save those who are dead in sin even though it comes in the power of the Holy Spirit..
 

Danoh

New member
The Lord looks into the future and only chooses "believers" for salvation:

"But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth" (2 Thess.2:13).​

So no one is chosen for salvation until they believe and are placed into the Body of Christ.

Of course, Jerry is cherry picking that text, pre-texting it that it fit his delusions.

What Paul is talking about as to that passage is a theme that runs throughout 1 and 2 Thessalonians, as Paul attempts to reassure them of the following, in light of the following, which had preoccupied their minds - in short, in light of "the persecutions ye endure."

How that, despite how things looked in light of the persecutions they were enduring, they could rest in the fact that beginning from the moment in which they believed the gospel Paul had preached unto them, God had right then and there chosen to sanctify them by the Spirit - in other words, to separate them, by the Spirit - from that wrath to come upon those who had rejected the truth - but that the Thessalonians had right away embraced, as of God, and, as a result, were now being persecuted for.

In fact, if one is lazy - as Jerry continues to prove he is - if one does not does wish to read through both epistles to see this for themselves...

Or if one is of the type ever in need of books supposedly based on the Scriptures - as Jerry also often proves is the case with him - all one need do is read that one short chapter - 2 Thessalonians 2, as is.

No need for "let us consider that in the Greek..."

And no need for "those with an open mind know that in the best translation we read..." yada, yada, yada.

And no need for "if you weren't so ignorant, you would know that; according to the scholars, and to Dr. so and so, and the past president of the prestigious" of this, that, the other.

No need for any of that glorying in the flesh.

All one needs is to believe that 2 Timothy 3:16-17 is true.

All that other heap, is not meant to be the overreliance far to many make it.

And I love books to pieces! Been reading books all my life. Lots of them, and on all sorts of wonders.

Still do.

"Nevertheless what saith the Scripture?" Gal. 4:30, as to where Its answers are?

Some will disagree, and have all sorts of self-impressive reasons - nevertheless, there is the truth of 2 Timothy 3's:

16. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17. That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
 

God's Truth

New member
Your message turns God's truth into a lie...you can't convert an become like unto a little child, no more than you can born yourself again...but you must be born again...so born yourself again.

God must do it.

Your message is from Satan.

So that is what you say to JESUS!

Jesus says to become as little children and YOU SAY THAT IS A MESSAGE FROM SATAN!

Jesus says to become as little children and you say no we cannot!

And you do not know that is wrong?
 

God's Truth

New member
Your message turns God's truth into a lie...you can't convert an become like unto a little child,

That is your response to Jesus?!!!

Matthew 18:3 "I assure you," He said, "unless you are converted and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
 

God's Truth

New member
The gospel comes in the power of the Holy Spirit. It is absolutey true and since it comes in the power of the Holy Spirit there does not need to be any good thing in anyone to believe it.

But you seem to think that the gospel is impotent to save those who are dead in sin even though it comes in the power of the Holy Spirit..

What in the world are you talking about! You say there does not need to be any good thing in anyone! That is NOT WHAT JESUS SAYS.

Luke 8:15 “… these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.”


Matthew 12:35 A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him.
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
The gospel comes in the power of the Holy Spirit. It is absolutey true and since it comes in the power of the Holy Spirit there does not need to be any good thing in anyone to believe it.

But you seem to think that the gospel is impotent to save those who are dead in sin even though it comes in the power of the Holy Spirit..

Bingo it is all God, all His power, but since all are dead but only some are born again that also must be God...He chooses, He chose before the world was founded.
 
Top