ECT Obey the Gospel

[Rosenritter]

Interesting video.

I'm noting what was said at 5:57,

Q: "Why don't Jews believe that Jesus is the Messiah?"

A: "If the redemption had arrived, there would be no need to work and do the commandments..."

So is the reasoning behind that being "Jesus was not the Messiah, therefore we need to obey our commandments?" or is it "We need to obey our commandments, therefore no one can be the Messiah?" A little further it seems that there is a different idea as to what "redemption" entails.

 

[Jacob]

I'm noting what was said at 5:57,

Q: "Why don't Jews believe that Jesus is the Messiah?"

A: "If the redemption had arrived, there would be no need to work and do the commandments..."

So is the reasoning behind that being "Jesus was not the Messiah, therefore we need to obey our commandments?" or is it "We need to obey our commandments, therefore no one can be the Messiah?" A little further it seems that there is a different idea as to what "redemption" entails.

Does the Torah come with Messiah or no Torah with Messiah?

 

[john w]

The fruit of repentance is not something you have experiance of.

And just how would you know that, fruit inspector?

 

[glorydaz]

What he cannot do is force the rebellious heart to become love of its own free will.

Which is why righteousness does not come from the law, and why the commandment does not produce love.

 

[Truster]

And just how would you know that, fruit inspector?

"But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man".

 

[john w]

"But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man".

You missed it, as I've quoted that often; however, you are clueless as to what the above means, and my rebuttal, to your fruit inspector, self righteous blustering. I asked "how," not "if."

Fool-take your seat, with that "fruit" I just gave you.

 

[Truster]

Repent of not using spell check.

My Alzheimer's is affecting my spelling.

 

[Truster]

You missed it, as I've quoted that often; however, you are clueless as to what the above means, and my rebuttal, to your fruit inspector, self righteous blustering. I asked "how," not "if."

Fool-take your seat, with that "fruit" I just gave you.

For I see you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by wickedness.

 

[Rosenritter]

Does the Torah come with Messiah or no Torah with Messiah?

The one I have comes with the Messiah.

Genesis 3:15 KJV
(15) And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Deuteronomy 18:15 KJV
(15) The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

Exodus 17:6 KJV
(6) Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel.

Numbers 20:7-8 KJV
(7) And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
(8) Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink.

Numbers 21:8-9 KJV
(8) And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
(9) And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

Exodus 12:21 KJV
(21) Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover.

Genesis 22:7-8 KJV
(7) And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
(8) And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

Luke 24:25-27 KJV
(25) Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
(26) Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
(27) And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

 

[Jacob]

The one I have comes with the Messiah.

Genesis 3:15 KJV
(15) And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Deuteronomy 18:15 KJV
(15) The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

Exodus 17:6 KJV
(6) Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel.

Numbers 20:7-8 KJV
(7) And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
(8) Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink.

Numbers 21:8-9 KJV
(8) And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
(9) And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

Exodus 12:21 KJV
(21) Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover.

Genesis 22:7-8 KJV
(7) And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
(8) And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

Luke 24:25-27 KJV
(25) Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
(26) Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
(27) And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

These are good, thank you.

 

[way 2 go]

so you understand we have died to the law like this :

Rom 7:2 For the married woman was bound by law to the living husband. But if the husband is dead, she is set free from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband lives, she is married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress. But if the husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is no adulteress by becoming another man's wife.

No.

Rom 7:4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.


we as Christians are the ones who have died & now not under the law

agree?

I do not have phylacteries.

you do not obey the whole law

how do you choose what laws to obey ?

 

[Jacob]

so you understand we have died to the law like this :

Rom 7:2 For the married woman was bound by law to the living husband. But if the husband is dead, she is set free from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband lives, she is married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress. But if the husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is no adulteress by becoming another man's wife.



Rom 7:4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.


we as Christians are the ones who have died & now not under the law

agree?



you do not obey the whole law

how do you choose what laws to obey ?

I want to obey all of them. I need $1,000 for phylacteries.

 

[musterion]

I want to obey all of them.

Wanting to isn't good enough. Putting yourself under any part of the Law beholds you to ALL of it.

1. You can't obey them all. No one can. That's the point of the Law.

2. The Law isn't a buffet you pick and choose from. If you obey most points but fail on just one, you're guilty of all.

3. Christ died so you wouldn't have to or want to. Newness of life and obedience to God is in Him, not in the Law.

There's something very wrong with someone who says he understands Christ's death for his sins but insists on trying to keep the Law anyway. He's got to be lying about one or the other.

Anyway, you'll fail and you've put yourself under a curse.

 

[Jacob]

Wanting to isn't good enough. Putting yourself under any part of the Law beholds you to ALL of it.

1. You can't obey them all. No one can. That's the point of the Law.

2. The Law isn't a buffet you pick and choose from. If you obey most points but fail on just one, you're guilty of all.

3. Christ died so you wouldn't have to or want to. Newness of life and obedience to God is in Him, not in the Law.

There's something very wrong with someone who says he understands Christ's death for his sins but insists on trying to keep the Law anyway. He's got to be lying about one or the other.

Anyway, you'll fail and you've put yourself under a curse.

Again, trying doesn't work. Placing oneself under the Law is not a good idea. Obeying God's commands and commandments is good, even if the command or commandment is found in the Law. See Jesus' instruction in Matthew 5:17-20. Saying that you are keeping the Law is not good enough. In fact, no one can make it even by observing the Law because you will always fail in one point at least. But this does not mean that one should not obey. You should obey. Obey what? The Spirit. The commands, commandments. The commands, commandments by the Spirit. How does a person obey the Spirit? Knowing that the Spirit will never speak against a command or commandment of God. Does this mean to not speak against a command or commandment of God but not to observe them?

 

[musterion]

Placing oneself under the Law...

Obeying God's commands...found in the Law.

They are the same thing. Paul knew the Law better than you EVER will and he says you can have obedience to the Law, or freedom in Christ. But you can't have both. Pick one or the other but it's either one or the other.

Why do you not believe Paul?

 

[Jacob]

They are the same thing. Paul knew the Law better than you EVER will and he says you can have obedience to the Law, or freedom in Christ. But you can't have both. Pick one or the other but it's either one or the other.

Why do you not believe Paul?

I do believe Paul. He taught at least one commandment from the Law. That is enough to say that the Law has not been abolished. Do you believe that he taught from the Law but not for himself just to convict people of sin but not for instruction to observe?

 

[musterion]

I do believe Paul. He taught at least one commandment from the Law. That is enough to say that the Law has not been abolished. Do you believe that he taught from the Law but not for himself just to convict people of sin but not for instruction to observe?

He said that those in Christ are dead to the Law, both as a means of condemnation and of righteousness.

You have read that for yourself. It's not my problem that you refuse to believe it. Be cursed if that's what you want.

But you cannot have Christ AND the Law. It's One or the other.

 

[Jacob]

He said that those in Christ are dead to the Law, both as a means of condemnation and of righteousness.

You have read that for yourself. It's not my problem that you refuse to believe it. Be cursed if that's what you want.

I have read the entire Bible and I believe all of it. Again, believing Paul does not mean that one is cursed.

 

[Jacob]

But you cannot have Christ AND the Law. It's One or the other.

Christ taught the Law. I don't have a problem with it.

 

[Right Divider]

Christ taught the Law. I don't have a problem with it.

2Co 5:16 KJV Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.​

If you believe Paul, believe that verse.

If you're still trying to follow the earthly Christ today, you are currently doing it wrong.