No Reason For Old Testament Law

[Squeaky]

Old Testament Law
[2Co 3:14
14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the [veil] is taken away in Christ.
[Heb 9:16-17
16 For where there [is] a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament [is] in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.
[Jhn 10:1-2, 8
1 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 "But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. ...
8 "All who [ever] came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
[Mat 11:12-13
12 "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force.
13 "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
[Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new [covenant]," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
[Heb 7:12, 18
12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. ...
18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness,
[Jas 2:10
10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one [point], he is guilty of all.
[Gal 5:1-4
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who [attempt to] be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
[Gal 2:21
21 "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness [comes] through the law, then Christ died in vain."
[2Jo 1:8-11
8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but [that] we may receive a full reward.
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.

xxx I cant find any reason a Christian would ever go to the law in the old testament. The only thing they can do by going back there is risk their own salvation in Christ.

 

[daqq]

Old Testament Law
[2Co 3:14
14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the [veil] is taken away in Christ.
[Heb 9:16-17
16 For where there [is] a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament [is] in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.
[Jhn 10:1-2, 8
1 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 "But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. ...
8 "All who [ever] came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
[Mat 11:12-13
12 "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force.
13 "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
[Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new [covenant]," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
[Heb 7:12, 18
12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. ...
18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness,
[Jas 2:10
10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one [point], he is guilty of all.
[Gal 5:1-4
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who [attempt to] be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
[Gal 2:21
21 "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness [comes] through the law, then Christ died in vain."
[2Jo 1:8-11
8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but [that] we may receive a full reward.
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.

xxx I cant find any reason a Christian would ever go to the law in the old testament. The only thing they can do by going back there is risk their own salvation in Christ.

Your very first quote is removed from its context:

2 Corinthians 3:12-16 KJV
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:^{[the skin of his face, that is, "the flesh"]}
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it^{[the heart]} shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

How can anyone truly understand what Paul is speaking about herein if the same already has "abolished the Torah" from his or her own heart and mind? for Paul here speaks of the context which most everyone knows can be found in Exo34:29-35. He therefore speaks from a background context only found in the Torah:

Exodus 34:29-35 KJV
29 And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him.
30 And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him.
31 And Moses called unto them; and Aaron and all the rulers of the congregation returned unto him: and Moses talked with them.
32 And afterward all the children of Israel came nigh: and he gave them in commandment all that the LORD had spoken with him in mount Sinai.
33 And till Moses had done speaking with them, he put a vail on his face.
34 But when Moses went in before the LORD to speak with him, he took the vail off, until he came out. And he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded.
35 And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him.

What was it that shone with glory? It was the skin of Moses' face, that is, the flesh, which Paul says was to be done away. Therefore, because you have theoretically abolished this very context from your own heart and mind, you cannot even understand what Paul is saying, (and the same is true of you and yours everywhere else that Paul writes and quotes from the Torah, Prophets, and Writings). The point is not to abolish the primary covenant from your own heart and mind but to rather understand it by way of the Testimony of the Messiah: for the veil is removed in (the Testimony of) Messiah. You therefore reveal that there is a veil over your own eyes, heart, and mind, whenever you read the primary covenant, just as Paul says, and you reveal it by the simple fact that you yourself abolish it from your own heart and mind and apparently do not even read it. And according to Paul in this very passage the veil over your eyes, heart, and mind will not be removed until your heart turns back toward the Father, and until you begin to understand that Messiah expounds the true supernal understanding of Torah, Prophets, and Writings, in all his Testimony.

 

[Squeaky]

How many times and in how many different ways does it take to get people to believe Jesus.


[Act 15:22-25
22 Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, [namely], Judas who was also named Barsabas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren.
23 They wrote this [letter] by them: The apostles, the elders, and the brethren, To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings.
24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "[You must] be circumcised and keep the law"--to whom we gave no [such] commandment--
25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
[1Jo 2:18-19
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but [they went out] that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
[Gal 6:13
13 For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh.

 

[daqq]

How many times and in how many different ways does it take to get people to believe Jesus.


[Act 15:22-25
22 Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, [namely], Judas who was also named Barsabas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren.
23 They wrote this [letter] by them: The apostles, the elders, and the brethren, To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings.
24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "[You must] be circumcised and keep the law"--to whom we gave no [such] commandment--
25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
[1Jo 2:18-19
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but [they went out] that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
[Gal 6:13
13 For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh.

More disinformation because of the fact that you cherry pick verses out of thin air and then say that the "Holy Spirit only quotes verses" so that you can pick and choose things out of context and fabricate and imagine that your cherry picking supports your own privately held doctrines. Anyone can do what you do and force the scripture to say whatever they want it to say: but they and you only do so because they and you do not have the Logos-Reasoning behind the words of the scripture which they and you quote out of context. Gal 6:13 speaks of physical circumcision, and thus, I agree with Paul while you actually do not because you care not the hear what Moses says about circumcision of the heart in the Torah. You only prove that you hear not Moses and therefore choose death over life and evil over the message of the good. The game you play with the scripture is treacherous and deceptive because you yourself are deceived.

Here below is an evil and treacherous example of the buffoonery you are engaged in:

John 8:48 KJV
48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?

Matthew 13:16-17 KJV
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

Here is another of thousands of examples of your buffoonery:

Matthew 27:5 KJV
5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

Matthew 22:26-27 KJV
26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.
27 And last of all the woman died also.

And then of course Squeaky says:

"I said, See? Jesus says so!
"And the Holy Spirit only quotes verses!", (but never the Old Testament!)." :devil:

Buffoonery . . . :chuckle:

 

[Jacob]

Old Testament Law
[2Co 3:14
14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the [veil] is taken away in Christ.
[Heb 9:16-17
16 For where there [is] a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament [is] in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.
[Jhn 10:1-2, 8
1 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 "But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. ...
8 "All who [ever] came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
[Mat 11:12-13
12 "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force.
13 "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
[Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new [covenant]," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
[Heb 7:12, 18
12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. ...
18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness,
[Jas 2:10
10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one [point], he is guilty of all.
[Gal 5:1-4
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who [attempt to] be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
[Gal 2:21
21 "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness [comes] through the law, then Christ died in vain."
[2Jo 1:8-11
8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but [that] we may receive a full reward.
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.

xxx I cant find any reason a Christian would ever go to the law in the old testament. The only thing they can do by going back there is risk their own salvation in Christ.

Shalom.

Today is Shlishli, 11-7.

If a person is obedient to God and Jesus Christ they may find that they have not transgressed the Law of Moses and whether or not they are of Israel and that there is a New Covenant where God's law is written on minds and hearts for the house of Israel and the house of Judah in Yeshua HaMashiach.

Does a Gentile who turns to God obey God or find themselves to have transgressed God's Law the Law of Moses or to be in violation of any commandment of God? Is a person required to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses?

See Acts 15.

Acts 15:1-29.

Acts 15:1-29 NKJV - 1 And certain [men] came down from Judea and taught the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved." 2 Therefore, when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question. 3 So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through Phoenicia and Samaria, describing the conversion of the Gentiles; and they caused great joy to all the brethren. 4 And when they had come to Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders; and they reported all things that God had done with them. 5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command [them] to keep the law of Moses." 6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. 7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up [and] said to them: "Men [and] brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 "So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as [He did] to us, 9 "and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 "Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 "But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they." 12 Then all the multitude kept silent and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring how many miracles and wonders God had worked through them among the Gentiles. 13 And after they had become silent, James answered, saying, "Men [and] brethren, listen to me: 14 "Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. 15 "And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written: 16 'After this I will return And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins, And I will set it up; 17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the LORD, Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, Says the LORD who does all these things.' 18 "Known to God from eternity are all His works. 19 "Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 "but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, [from] sexual immorality, [from] things strangled, and [from] blood. 21 "For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath." 22 Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, [namely], Judas who was also named Barsabas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren. 23 They wrote this [letter] by them: The apostles, the elders, and the brethren, To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings. 24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "[You must] be circumcised and keep the law"--to whom we gave no [such] commandment-- 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.

God's commandments are still valid, but there is no undue burden.

If a person chooses to transgress God's Law, of course they would need to be corrected. Salvation in Christ and God's Grace in Christ Jesus do not imply mean or infer that a person should disobey God or be found in disobedience. If a person is breaking one of God's laws, someone who knows should warn them so that they recognize what they are doing and change to be in conformity with the will of God.

Would it be okay for a person who is warned not to transgress an old testament commandment, law, or command, be justified or okay if they choose to ignore, not pay any heed, to the warning or the person who warned them? For example, does it matter what commandment for if it is required to warn someone about what they are doing? And, if a person is warned according to the Law why would they want to do anything different? And yet, however, not all believers are Christian or of Israel. Not all observe the Law of Moses. The Law of Moses is God's Law. Is God's law in the New Covenant any different, except that it is written on minds and hearts? It is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. Christians and other believers from among the Gentiles may not observe the Law of Moses or be a part of or have accepted the New Covenant? Is there such a thing Biblically as New Covenant Law? Meaning, are there different laws, or is the Law of Moses written on minds and hearts as it is God's law?

I know for a fact that Squeaky is not saying that a Christian should not observe God's commandments against homosexuality, as an example, even though it is an old testament command or commandment. That is, no one should be homosexual or a homosexual. I do not know, however, whether he would say that he is against homosexuality but not for the old testament command commandment or law against homosexuality. My reasoning for saying this is not knowing his position on God's Law, the Law of Moses, and punishment for breaking God's Law such as with Homosexuality. Is it possible to be against homosexuality and not in support of the death penalty according to God's Law? Is THAT what the New Covenant is about? I think that to say so would be a perversion of God's law in the New Covenant. Maybe this argument and reasoning makes sense in respect to the entire Law of Moses or all of God's Law, Scripture, Revelation, Scriptural Revelation, Biblical Revelation, New Testament New Covenant Revelation? That what was once against God's Law is always and still against God's Law. Is there punishment for breaking God's Law for Israel, Christians, believers, non-believers, non-believers among Israel, and non-believers among the Gentiles? Are we simply assured that if a person is a believer and knows better then they already observe God's law written on their mind and heart? Meaning, is this without punishment for their own self and also for anyone else? What of the love and grace of God? How should and ought it to be understood rightly?

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Squeaky]

Shalom.

Today is Shlishli, 11-7.

If a person is obedient to God and Jesus Christ they may find that they have not transgressed the Law of Moses and whether or not they are of Israel and that there is a New Covenant where God's law is written on minds and hearts for the house of Israel and the house of Judah in Yeshua HaMashiach.

Does a Gentile who turns to God obey God or find themselves to have transgressed God's Law the Law of Moses or to be in violation of any commandment of God? Is a person required to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses?

See Acts 15.

Acts 15:1-29.

Acts 15:1-29 NKJV - 1 And certain [men] came down from Judea and taught the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved." 2 Therefore, when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question. 3 So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through Phoenicia and Samaria, describing the conversion of the Gentiles; and they caused great joy to all the brethren. 4 And when they had come to Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders; and they reported all things that God had done with them. 5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command [them] to keep the law of Moses." 6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. 7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up [and] said to them: "Men [and] brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 "So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as [He did] to us, 9 "and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 "Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 "But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they." 12 Then all the multitude kept silent and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring how many miracles and wonders God had worked through them among the Gentiles. 13 And after they had become silent, James answered, saying, "Men [and] brethren, listen to me: 14 "Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. 15 "And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written: 16 'After this I will return And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins, And I will set it up; 17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the LORD, Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, Says the LORD who does all these things.' 18 "Known to God from eternity are all His works. 19 "Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 "but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, [from] sexual immorality, [from] things strangled, and [from] blood. 21 "For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath." 22 Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, [namely], Judas who was also named Barsabas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren. 23 They wrote this [letter] by them: The apostles, the elders, and the brethren, To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings. 24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "[You must] be circumcised and keep the law"--to whom we gave no [such] commandment-- 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.

God's commandments are still valid, but there is no undue burden.

If a person chooses to transgress God's Law, of course they would need to be corrected. Salvation in Christ and God's Grace in Christ Jesus do not imply mean or infer that a person should disobey God or be found in disobedience. If a person is breaking one of God's laws, someone who knows should warn them so that they recognize what they are doing and change to be in conformity with the will of God.

Would it be okay for a person who is warned not to transgress an old testament commandment, law, or command, be justified or okay if they choose to ignore, not pay any heed, to the warning or the person who warned them? For example, does it matter what commandment for if it is required to warn someone about what they are doing? And, if a person is warned according to the Law why would they want to do anything different? And yet, however, not all believers are Christian or of Israel. Not all observe the Law of Moses. The Law of Moses is God's Law. Is God's law in the New Covenant any different, except that it is written on minds and hearts? It is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. Christians and other believers from among the Gentiles may not observe the Law of Moses or be a part of or have accepted the New Covenant? Is there such a thing Biblically as New Covenant Law? Meaning, are there different laws, or is the Law of Moses written on minds and hearts as it is God's law?

I know for a fact that Squeaky is not saying that a Christian should not observe God's commandments against homosexuality, as an example, even though it is an old testament command or commandment. That is, no one should be homosexual or a homosexual. I do not know, however, whether he would say that he is against homosexuality but not for the old testament command commandment or law against homosexuality. My reasoning for saying this is not knowing his position on God's Law, the Law of Moses, and punishment for breaking God's Law such as with Homosexuality. Is it possible to be against homosexuality and not in support of the death penalty according to God's Law? Is THAT what the New Covenant is about? I think that to say so would be a perversion of God's law in the New Covenant. Maybe this argument and reasoning makes sense in respect to the entire Law of Moses or all of God's Law, Scripture, Revelation, Scriptural Revelation, Biblical Revelation, New Testament New Covenant Revelation? That what was once against God's Law is always and still against God's Law. Is there punishment for breaking God's Law for Israel, Christians, believers, non-believers, non-believers among Israel, and non-believers among the Gentiles? Are we simply assured that if a person is a believer and knows better then they already observe God's law written on their mind and heart? Meaning, is this without punishment for their own self and also for anyone else? What of the love and grace of God? How should and ought it to be understood rightly?

Shalom.

Jacob

I said
Your lack of comprehension is to much. All of Jesus' commandments are Gods commandments. New commandments that override the old commandments.

[Jhn 12:48-50
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him--the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 "For I have not spoken on My own [authority]; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."

 

[Jacob]

I said
Your lack of comprehension is to much. All of Jesus' commandments are Gods commandments. New commandments that override the old commandments.

[Jhn 12:48-50
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him--the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 "For I have not spoken on My own [authority]; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."

The commandments of God include the commandments of Jesus. Jesus did and taught the commandments.

The question you are attempting to answer is if Jesus taught anything not in the Law, or law, of Moses or taught by the prophets.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Squeaky]

The commandments of God include the commandments of Jesus. Jesus did and taught the commandments.

The question you are attempting to answer is if Jesus taught anything not in the Law, or law, of Moses or taught by the prophets.

Shalom.

Jacob

I said
I am showing you your hypocrisy. Jesus became High Priest and changed the law.

[Heb 7:11-12
11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need [was there] that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.

 

[Jacob]

I said
I am showing you your hypocrisy.

No

Jesus became High Priest and changed the law.

[Heb 7:11-12
11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need [was there] that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.

There has been a change of the law, but only as Hebrews 7:12 describes, says.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[genuineoriginal]

xxx I cant find any reason a Christian would ever go to the law in the old testament. The only thing they can do by going back there is risk their own salvation in Christ.

Here is what Paul said about why a Christian needs the Old Testament:

2 Timothy 3:15-17 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.​

 

[Squeaky]

NoThere has been a change of the law, but only as Hebrews 7:12 describes, says.

Shalom.

Jacob

I said
No facts, just guile and trickery out of you. Lets see, was just part of the priesthood given to Jesus or was all of the priesthood given to Jesus. All. Did Jesus change just part of the law or all of the law. All

 

[Jacob]

I said
No facts, just guile and trickery out of you. Lets see, was just part of the priesthood given to Jesus or was all of the priesthood given to Jesus. All. Did Jesus change just part of the law or all of the law. All

Neither of your statements is correct.

I think you are saying when a person quotes or just gives a scripture reference.

There is no part. There is no all. There also is no part of the law or all of the law. These are not found in scripture.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Squeaky]

Neither of your statements is correct.

I think you are saying when a person quotes or just gives a scripture reference.

There is no part. There is no all. There also is no part of the law or all of the law. These are not found in scripture.

Shalom.

Jacob

I said
Like I said you have no idea of who the Holy Spirit is. Or how to walk after the Spirit.
HIDDEN LANGUAGE (HOLY SPIRIT LANGUAGE)(MEAT)(NEW TONGUE)

John 6:63
63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
Rev 2:16
16 'Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.
1 Cor 2:4-5
4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
1 Cor 2:6-7
6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory,
Matt 13:10-11
10 And the disciples came and said to Him, "Why do You speak to them in parables?"
11 He answered and said to them, "Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.
Matt 13:13-14
13 "Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
14 "And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: 'Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, and seeing you will see and not perceive;
1 Cor 14:10
10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of languages in the world, and none of them is without significance.
1 Cor 14:7-8
7 Even things without life, whether flute or harp, when they make a sound, unless they make a distinction in the sounds, how will it be known what is piped or played?
8 For if the trumpet makes an uncertain sound, who will prepare himself for battle?
Rom 8:27
27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
James 3:17
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy.
Matt 13:16-17
16 "But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear;
17 "for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
Matt 13:18-19
18 "Therefore hear the parable of the sower:
19 "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside.
Mark 4:14
14 "The sower sows the word.
John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
John 3:34
34 "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure.
John 3:33
33 "He who has received His testimony has certified that God is true.
Eph 1:9
9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,
2 Cor 5:5
5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
2 Cor 5:7
7 For we walk by faith, not by sight.
2 Cor 5:10-11
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.
Matt 4:4
4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'"
Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)
There are many languages in the world. Doctors have one, lawyers have one, intellectuals have one, common people have one. Seeing that the only guaranteed message in the bible comes from the Holy Spirit. So to guard that guarantee He even uses a special language. And the Holy Spirit only quotes verses, He explains verses with other verses. There are spirits in us trying to deceive us and they all speak the same language carnal. So we can discern the Holy Spirit He quotes verses. Now this is the meat understanding of the Word. The milk understanding is done with the carnal language, the meat understanding is done with only verses. Its an unknown tongue to the carnal mind.

II Jn 1:8-11
8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
(NKJ)

2 Cor 3:5-6
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God,
6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
(NKJ)

1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
(NKJ)

John 5:30
30 "I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.
(NKJ)
Eph 6:17
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;
(NKJ)

John 7:18
18 "He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him.
(NKJ)

John 8:42-43
42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.
43 "Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word.
(NKJ)

Col 2:1-3

1 For I want you to know what a great conflict I have for you and those in Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh,
2 that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, and attaining to all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge of the mystery of God, both of the Father and of Christ,
3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
(NKJ)

Col 1:26
26 the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints.
(NKJ)

1 Cor 13:8-10
8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
(NKJ)


Zeph 3:9
9 "For then I will restore to the peoples a pure language, that they all may call on the name of the LORD, to serve Him with one accord.
(NKJ)


Gal 2:18-20
18 "For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 "For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.
20 "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
(NKJ)

John 10:9
9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
(NKJ)

AN UNKNOWN TONGUE

 

[john w]

Old Testament Law
[2Co 3:14
14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the [veil] is taken away in Christ.
[Heb 9:16-17
16 For where there [is] a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament [is] in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.
[Jhn 10:1-2, 8
1 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 "But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. ...
8 "All who [ever] came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
[Mat 11:12-13
12 "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force.
13 "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
[Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new [covenant]," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
[Heb 7:12, 18
12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. ...
18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness,
[Jas 2:10
10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one [point], he is guilty of all.
[Gal 5:1-4
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who [attempt to] be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
[Gal 2:21
21 "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness [comes] through the law, then Christ died in vain."
[2Jo 1:8-11
8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but [that] we may receive a full reward.
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.

xxx I cant find any reason a Christian would ever go to the law in the old testament. The only thing they can do by going back there is risk their own salvation in Christ.

No reason, you muse?

So, murder, rape, theft, sodomy.....................................are just fine, according to you?

 

[meshak]

No reason, you muse?

So, murder, rape, theft, sodomy.....................................are just fine, according to you?

Jesus taught all of them too.

 

[Squeaky]

No reason, you muse?

So, murder, rape, theft, sodomy.....................................are just fine, according to you?

I said
Go read the new testament them are all sins in the new testament.

 

[Jacob]

I said
Like I said you have no idea of who the Holy Spirit is. Or how to walk after the Spirit.
HIDDEN LANGUAGE (HOLY SPIRIT LANGUAGE)(MEAT)(NEW TONGUE)

John 6:63
63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
Rev 2:16
16 'Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.
1 Cor 2:4-5
4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
1 Cor 2:6-7
6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory,
Matt 13:10-11
10 And the disciples came and said to Him, "Why do You speak to them in parables?"
11 He answered and said to them, "Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.
Matt 13:13-14
13 "Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
14 "And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: 'Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, and seeing you will see and not perceive;
1 Cor 14:10
10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of languages in the world, and none of them is without significance.
1 Cor 14:7-8
7 Even things without life, whether flute or harp, when they make a sound, unless they make a distinction in the sounds, how will it be known what is piped or played?
8 For if the trumpet makes an uncertain sound, who will prepare himself for battle?
Rom 8:27
27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
James 3:17
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy.
Matt 13:16-17
16 "But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear;
17 "for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
Matt 13:18-19
18 "Therefore hear the parable of the sower:
19 "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside.
Mark 4:14
14 "The sower sows the word.
John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
John 3:34
34 "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure.
John 3:33
33 "He who has received His testimony has certified that God is true.
Eph 1:9
9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,
2 Cor 5:5
5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
2 Cor 5:7
7 For we walk by faith, not by sight.
2 Cor 5:10-11
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.
Matt 4:4
4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'"
Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)
There are many languages in the world. Doctors have one, lawyers have one, intellectuals have one, common people have one. Seeing that the only guaranteed message in the bible comes from the Holy Spirit. So to guard that guarantee He even uses a special language. And the Holy Spirit only quotes verses, He explains verses with other verses. There are spirits in us trying to deceive us and they all speak the same language carnal. So we can discern the Holy Spirit He quotes verses. Now this is the meat understanding of the Word. The milk understanding is done with the carnal language, the meat understanding is done with only verses. Its an unknown tongue to the carnal mind.

II Jn 1:8-11
8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
(NKJ)

2 Cor 3:5-6
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God,
6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
(NKJ)

1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
(NKJ)

John 5:30
30 "I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.
(NKJ)
Eph 6:17
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;
(NKJ)

John 7:18
18 "He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him.
(NKJ)

John 8:42-43
42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.
43 "Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word.
(NKJ)

Col 2:1-3

1 For I want you to know what a great conflict I have for you and those in Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh,
2 that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, and attaining to all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge of the mystery of God, both of the Father and of Christ,
3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
(NKJ)

Col 1:26
26 the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints.
(NKJ)

1 Cor 13:8-10
8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
(NKJ)


Zeph 3:9
9 "For then I will restore to the peoples a pure language, that they all may call on the name of the LORD, to serve Him with one accord.
(NKJ)


Gal 2:18-20
18 "For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 "For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.
20 "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
(NKJ)

John 10:9
9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
(NKJ)

AN UNKNOWN TONGUE

Incorrect.

John 14:15-18 NKJV - 15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever- 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Romans 8:9 NKJV - 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Bright Raven]

Have you ripped the Old Testament out of your Bible yet?

 

[john w]

I said
Go read the new testament them are all sins in the new testament.

1.Show me where the all the sins, as defined in the OT, are also in the NT.

2.Paul says that the law, as codified in the OT, still exists:

1 Timothy 1:9 KJV Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Romans 3 KJV
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 7 KJV
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Galatians 3 KJV
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.


EOT. CLOSED. DOA.

 

[Robert Pate]

1.Show me where the all the sins, as defined in the OT, are also in the NT.

2.Paul says that the law, as codified in the OT, still exists:

1 Timothy 1:9 KJV Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Romans 3 KJV
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 7 KJV
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Galatians 3 KJV
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.


EOT. CLOSED. DOA.

Tricky John W. doesn't quote all of the scripture, just the part that he likes.

"But after faith is come, we are NO LONGER UNDER THE SCHOOLMASTER" Galatians 3:25.