Miss USA says to love the terrorists..

[Word based mystic]

Gods answer to prayers is always yes to those who pray according to His desire and will.
The timing might not be what you consider an answer so you imply He sometimes says No.

Matthew 21:21-22 And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen. 22"And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive."

So those who do not agree with this scripture are you saying He sometimes says no because.
James 4:3 When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.

In the above case I would agree.

However in your desire to nuke the enemies and ignore such things as.

1 timothy 2:4 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

And

Luke 6:27-37. 27 "But I say to you that hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. 29 To him who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also; and from him who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt.

Do you pick and choose what scripture to agree with WOW
Love is not in your heart for your enemies or you would not so quickly dismiss them with a bullet to the head.
This is not the method Jesus would use.

 

[Desert Reign]

No I haven't, but more to my point, I do think your analogy is rather broad-brushed.

Non-militarism isn't the same as pacifism. Pacifism isn't the same as cowardice. These are complex ideas that can't be reduced to what you think goes on in the mind of timid drivers.

Well, twas but an analogy my deerie! For most normal drivers, the red light is the thing we have to obey. The green light is the thing we want to obey. The green light is our friend, the red light our enemy. For some people the red light is their friend, the green light the enemy. I think I know where I stand with Death Wish Charlie. He is the last person I would want to be my friend because he thinks only of his enemies. In reality, paradoxical as it may seem, the enemy are his only friends.

 

[Word based mystic]

Is committing suicide being a martyr for those who go in those countries as missionaries??

Did Jesus commit suicide or was he A martyr who gave his life for others to have salvation.

I am ex navy. I understand the need to defend when that is necessary I was willing to put my life on the line for my family and country. That is not suicide. I understand your earthly based thought process for wanting to protect your family and self.
But your heart has little compassion for your enemies. It is evident in your words. Especially in your rationalization of ignoring scripture that relates how to handle and love your enemy.

Praying much produces much in the release of Gods will on the earth.
We are called to be peacemakers.

I am not a pacifist nor am I war hawk.
There are times for war or we would all be speaking german or japanese.
Going to war is necessary to resist evil.
But neither does it excuse us from having the attitudes of the above scriptures I mentioned.
We must have an eternal perspective and not a fear based knee jerk reaction in the flesh to our enemies.

 

[Christian Liberty]

God will deal with the terrorists. It is not the job of Christians to fight the world's battles.

I guess this is the problem. I, like you, see it as "the world's battle." Those who are still confused see it as our battle, either "us or them" so to speak. They don't understand the reality of blowback and how it works.

A Christian magistrate should defend his country from attack if necessary, but none of this nonsense has anything meaningful to do with "defense."

 

[bybee]

Is committing suicide being a martyr for those who go in those countries as missionaries??

Did Jesus commit suicide or was he A martyr who gave his life for others to have salvation.

I am ex navy. I understand the need to defend when that is necessary I was willing to put my life on the line for my family and country. That is not suicide. I understand your earthly based thought process for wanting to protect your family and self.
But your heart has little compassion for your enemies. It is evident in your words. Especially in your rationalization of ignoring scripture that relates how to handle and love your enemy.

Praying much produces much in the release of Gods will on the earth.
We are called to be peacemakers.

I don't love my enemy. I watch my enemy and I seek to protect myself from the depredations of my enemy. If the enemy wishes to let me live unmolested as a neighbor, then, I will be a good neighbor.
I pray to have brave souls as neighbors.

 

[Desert Reign]

I am not a pacifist nor am I war hawk.


We must have an eternal perspective and not a fear based knee jerk reaction in the flesh to our enemies.

My problem with your point of view is that you demonstrate no concern for your own family and friends. It is all about the enemy, dying for the enemy.

It is your opinion that my thought for the well-being of my family is a 'fleshly desire and a knee-jerk reaction based on fear'. I assure that I am not afraid of what men can do to me. So long as you continue to assert this you will never get my support. The well being of my family is a God-given attitude. Only the wicked think that caring for their families is a knee jerk reaction of the flesh. Only the wicked want to abandon the family, marriage, faithfulness and sacrifice. The Bible says that if you abandon your wife and children you have abandoned the faith. I think that putting yourself between a bullet and a person who wants to kill your family or destroy your country is just such an abandonment.

 

[Word based mystic]

desert reign. I am newbie here. Just learning the etiquette of this site.

Is this a norm for you and others that you would put words into the mouth of a commentators and assume the worst or the most sarcastic of that person commenting? I am mentioning the quotes you made below in assigning innuendos to my intents.

You know nothing of me yet assign the worst possible to my questions.
Is this a need you have to either condescend so you feel good about yourself or is this truly how you view those you don't know? In the extreme negative.


Yes. You pray that someone else will put their life at risk to save yours.



Exactly. You pray that the light will turn red before you get there and you do all you can to make sure it is.



Sure, but only by other people. Never ourselves.



Of course. So long as it doesn't involve any actual action or risk on our part. And so long as it is understood that everything we pray for and everything we stand for is the will of God and that we ourselves can do no wrong at all because we are the holy ones, the born again ones.




That is true. Most people act according to their deepest held beliefs (which is often not what they profess to believe).
Could it be that since your advice is not to act at all, does this imply that you have no beliefs at all?




So long as it doesn't lead you to think for the slightest moment about your friends and family, I don't suppose you care where it comes from.




Again, I daresay this is very fine so long as you never have to consider giving up your life for your friends, family or compatriots.



And it's highly commendable that you would do this for your enemies and not once in an entire post even consider your friends family or compatriots. It is obviously these that you really hate and the reason why most of us will ignore you in return.



I have a slight question over whether Jesus would endorse your attitude

 

[annabenedetti]

Well, twas but an analogy my deerie! For most normal drivers, the red light is the thing we have to obey. The green light is the thing we want to obey. The green light is our friend, the red light our enemy. For some people the red light is their friend, the green light the enemy. I think I know where I stand with Death Wish Charlie. He is the last person I would want to be my friend because he thinks only of his enemies. In reality, paradoxical as it may seem, the enemy are his only friends.

Most normal drivers don't anthropomorphize their traffic signals.

Okay, I'll go along.

There are more than a few here who only see traffic lights as a two-signal system. Just black and white. White means good, black means bad, and for them a yellow caution light doesn't exist. The thing about the yellow light is that you have the ability to make a decision based on the information you have available to you at that moment. So do you speed up or slow down? Here's where the analogy gets thrown wide open.

 

[Tambora]

Tambora We now have the Holy Spirit within us and the scriptures to keep us in line on what we ask and pray for. So yes we can and are expected to do Jesus works.

You can't do the work that Jesus did. Only a spotless one could. And you (nor anyone else besides Jesus) ain't spotless.

These are basics Tambora. You are looking through worldly and political lenses not scriptural and Spirit led love.

John 14:12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

You are thinking with a political/earthly mind tambora. My discussion is how The Spirit of God can change the atmosphere through prayer.

We have Paul asking to have his thorn in the flesh removed.
Didn't happen.

We have the mother of James and John asking that they be granted to sit on the right and left with Christ.
Didn't happen.

There were many times that a request was made to God, but the request didn't happen.

James 4:3 When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.

Matthew 21:21-22 And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen. 22"And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive."

Luke 6:27-37. 27 "But I say to you that hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. 29 To him who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also; and from him who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt. 30 Give to every one who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again. 31 And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them. 32 "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to receive as much again. 35 But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for he is kind to the ungrateful and the selfish. 36 Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful.

Have you measured up yet?

If you truly know the fathers love you would not be so quick to nuke people straight to hell.

A nuke is not what sends people to hell. Unbelief is.

your comment "does love desire we let others terrorize us" Is that just a condescending thought process to ignore Scripture and release our own desire to shed blood.

No.

Do you hate your enemies or will you look at each person on earth through Gods eyes of love and desire for them. What is Gods desire and will for the Lost??
Is it for you to take up the method of the jihadists and kill all that threaten you??

God does not promise everyone EXTRA time to believe.

If it were indeed true that no one should take up arms against their enemy so as to allow the enemy more time to convert ....... then Israel did a grave injustice when they OBEYED God by destroying their enemies.
Maybe you like to sweep under the carpet that God is a man of war (Exodus !5:3) and destroys the enemy. I don't.
And let's not forget that God is not through with destroying the enemy. There's more to come.

To follow Jesus is to follow God.
God is not against destroying the enemy.


King Solomon (whom God granted wisdom) says:

Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 KJV
(1) To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
(2) A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
(3) A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
(4) A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
(5) A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
(6) A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
(7) A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
(8) A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.​

To lay claim that only half of those things are to be considered ......

be born, but not die
plant, but not pluck up
heal, but not kill
build up, but not break down
laugh, but not weep
dance, but not mourn
gather, but not cast away
embrace, but not don't embrace
get, but not lose
keep, but not cast away
sew, but not rend
keep silent, but not speak
love, but not hate
time of peace, but not a time of war​

...... will leave your wisdom lacking on how to handle things at certain times.

There is a time for all of those things, not just half of them.
With any given situation in life, you need to ask yourself, "What time is it?", and respond with the appropriate response for that situation.

 

[Tambora]

Only the wicked think that caring for their families is a knee jerk reaction of the flesh. Only the wicked want to abandon the family, marriage, faithfulness and sacrifice. The Bible says that if you abandon your wife and children you have abandoned the faith. I think that putting yourself between a bullet and a person who wants to kill your family or destroy your country is just such an abandonment.

I agree.
Who is going to throw themselves in front of the second bullet, once you are laying dead on the ground from the first bullet? Your family is still in danger.
The best response would be to eliminate the enemy, not be target practice for them.

 

[Word based mystic]

desert reign
please show me in the overall theme where i considered your love and protective attitude for your family was a knee jerk reaction in the flesh.

I started out showing the need and importance to pray for our enemies. prayer

Love and missionary focus willing if necessary to give up ones life as a martyr for Gods Lost people in the world was another main theme.

Having an eternal perspective on How God desires us to love our enemies and that love is the solution that overcomes fear 1 john 4:18. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

There is a time for war. But even in this our love for our enemies must remain.

Jesus said to the disciples that 2 swords was enough. He did not desire all 12 to have swords. 2 out of 12 times might be needed for warfare.

 

[Desert Reign]

desert reign. I am newbie here. Just learning the etiquette of this site.

Is this a norm for you and others that you would put words into the mouth of a commentators and assume the worst or the most sarcastic of that person commenting? I am mentioning the quotes you made below in assigning innuendos to my intents.

Firstly, please learn to use the quote button.

Now, you yourself said

We must have an eternal perspective and not a fear based knee jerk reaction in the flesh to our enemies

So by saying this, you are implying that what I said previously was a fear based knee jerk reaction from an earthly perspective.

That is how you have characterised my beliefs. I don't mind you characterising my beliefs as such. You need to know that you do this just the same as I do and everybody else does. I suspect that you don't even realise that this is what you are doing but it is.

I expect you to have opinions and express them. You should expect me to refute those characterisations. I have made characterisations of your beliefs. I expect you to refute mine, not whine that I have made them. This is what debate is. I did not whine when you said that my position was based on fear and a knee jerk earthly reaction. Please don't whine if I say I wouldn't want you to be my friend if you say that you would die for an enemy when that enemy is intending to kill or maim my own children. If you are in the house with me as a friend and a robber or terrorist comes with a gun and starts attacking us and I point a gun at him and shoot, I do not expect you to get in the way because you are afraid for his salvation.

 

[Word based mystic]

Tambora and desert reign you commented saying

Only the wicked think that caring for their families is a knee jerk reaction of the flesh. Only the wicked want to abandon the family, marriage, faithfulness and sacrifice. The Bible says that if you abandon your wife and children you have abandoned the faith. I think that putting yourself between a bullet and a person who wants to kill your family or destroy your country is just such an abandonment.

I agree.
Who is going to throw themselves in front of the second bullet, once you are laying dead on the ground from the first bullet? Your family is still in danger.
The best response would be to eliminate the enemy, not be target practice for them.

that is rhetorical hog wash with a nonsensical example.
A man going to war to stop Hitler or a jihadist does not hate his own family. ww1 and ww2 most men going to war knew there was a good chance they would die. That has no relation to abandoning the family. It does however show the willingness to lay down ones life for a friend.

you also take the (Provide) for your wife and family scripture way out of context. The whole context of that was in not working and providing for family.
Not an issue of going to war to defend ones family.

jumping in front of a bullet to defend my wife or kids would definitely happen, especially if i didn't have a gun. If i could disable I would first. If not I would kill sadly but still.
The main point all along which you both have ignored is that you are still commanded to Love your enemies.

It is interesting you have put words in my mouth.
Is this the norm for discussions on this site???

 

[Word based mystic]

as you can tell I am new and not that great at maneuvering on the site.

using the quote message is a bit confusing. I will get the hang of it. trying to talk to 2 people and post their quotes separately. not sure. Maybe a small suggestion on how to do so would help. Or is that a norm here as well. Condescend on the uninformed and learning.

 

[Word based mystic]

i click on the button in options for (quote message in reply) and it does not work.

must be missing something.

criticizing you for assigning words that were not quoted or inferred is exactly what I was doing. You denigrate by implying whining. always putting the worst twist you can on the other person. Sarcasm and condescension is the lowest form of discussions and debating.
example.
Your reply was ( Of course. So long as it doesn't involve any actual action or risk on our part. And so long as it is understood that everything we pray for and everything we stand for is the will of God and that we ourselves can do no wrong at all because we are the holy ones, the born again ones).
Implying all of the above hypocritical assignments When I never verbalized any of it.
nice job. You have quite a reputation. What is that reputation for? kindness, gentleness, patience, understanding, wanting to make sure you understand the intent of the person. Or locking on one minor point like a hound and ignoring all the others and unloading mockery or implied character flaws.

 

[Desert Reign]

i click on the button in options for (quote message in reply) and it does not work.

must be missing something.

criticizing you for assigning words that were not quoted or inferred is exactly what I was doing. You denigrate by implying whining. always putting the worst twist you can on the other person. Sarcasm and condescension is the lowest form of discussions and debating.
example.
Your reply was ( Of course. So long as it doesn't involve any actual action or risk on our part. And so long as it is understood that everything we pray for and everything we stand for is the will of God and that we ourselves can do no wrong at all because we are the holy ones, the born again ones).
Implying all of the above hypocritical assignments When I never verbalized any of it.
nice job. You have quite a reputation. What is that reputation for? kindness, gentleness, patience, understanding, wanting to make sure you understand the intent of the person. Or locking on one minor point like a hound and ignoring all the others and unloading mockery or implied character flaws.

Dear WBM,
Firstly, the quote button is at the bottom right of each person's post. It says "Quote". If you want to reply to a post that's the button you press.

Secondly, I can really only reiterate what I said in my last post. When you said

We must have an eternal perspective and not a fear based knee jerk reaction in the flesh to our enemies

it was in the context of a general comment about those who hold a different view to your own. So in other words you are saying that those who do not act as you do, being willing to get down and pray or throw themselves in front of a bullet to save an enemy from being killed in case he might later get saved, but who adopt some other reaction like defending themselves or trying to attack or disable the said enemy - it is your contention that those who do this are adopting a knee jerk unspiritual reaction based on fear. This is what I think any reasonable person would understand from the words you used.

And as I said, I don't really mind you using them and you are quite entitled to express your opinion.
But what I do mind, seeing as you have made an assumption about my motives in wanting to disable my enemy rather than dying for him as being unspiritual, is that you then go on to criticise me for making assumptions about your own motives.

I think your problem is that it is so natural for you to think that those who wish to disable their enemies are being unspiritual that it is second nature to you and you don't even realise that you are doing it and you don't think it is of any importance to anybody and you think that my raising the issue is just nit-picking.

But I'm afraid that it is not nit-picking at all. Because my choice to defend where possible against those who wish to hurt me and my family even it puts me at risk, is not at all a knee jerk reaction but one which has been formed from much prayer and contemplation over the years. And the fact that you feel you are a very spiritual person because you say that you would be willing to throw yourself into a bullet to protect your enemy, doesn't mean that I am not a spiritual person just the same. If you can accept this then we can discuss the matter.

 

[Town Heretic]

desert reign. I am newbie here. Just learning the etiquette of this site.

Is this a norm for you and others that you would put words into the mouth of a commentators and assume the worst or the most sarcastic of that person commenting?

Some will/some won't. Sometimes you can suffer from sounding like you're toeing a historic line that tends to lead in a familiar direction. Sometimes you just catch a poster on a bad day.

A word, if you don't mind. Answering a series of questions without the questions preceding them is an invitation to confusion. You're new so you might not know how to incorporate the answer. Here's how I do it.

1. Click on the blue Quote tab on the lower left hand side of the post you want to respond to.

2. The body of the post you mean to respond to will appear.

3. Figure out where you want to stop them to answer the first thing that interests you and type [/ quote] to end the line (except don't leave that space I put in to keep the machinery from reading and trying to close quote you).

4. Then space to a new line and answer. If you want to answer a number of points it's even easier. From that point until the last one all you'll have to do is quote wrap the next section or sections, as you come to them then answer.

To quote wrap you highlight the next section or sentence you mean to answer (if you don't know how to do that, click just before the first word in the sentence or section then hold the click and move your mouse/cursor to the right until you come to the end of the sentence/section) then click on the quote wrap icon at the top of the page you're answering in. It literally looks like a dialogue bubble and is under the second bent arrow and to the right of the icon that looks like a post card. It's also just to the left of the # icon.

5. Once you've highlighted and clicked on the quote wrap the highlight will disappear and you'll see the section of text is inside quotes. It will look like this: [ quote] Blah blah blah [/ quote]

Again, I'm leaving an extra space in these boxes with [ quote] to keep the TOL machinery from reading it and making it happen.

Repeat this process until you're finished. The only possible change would be if you're answering the last sentence. It will already have the closing [/ quote] built in and you'll need to type the [ quote] at the beginning of the section.

A side note. It's better form to use ... if you're leaving off answering a thing. So if you have one or two points in a long post you want to answer and don't want to or need to comment on the rest just erase what you don't want or need to address and indicate the missing parts with the ellipse (...).

If you have any questions you can PM me and I'll be happy to help. :e4e:

 

[Tambora]

The main point all along which you both have ignored is that you are still commanded to Love your enemies.

God loves the whole world and didn't stop killing the enemy.
Perhaps you don't quite have a firm grasp of what biblical love is.
It's not all about hugs and kissing boo-boos.

 

[republicanchick]

God will deal with the terrorists. It is not the job of Christians to fight the world's battles.

who says?

there is something in the Word that says if you see your brother being led to death and don't intervene, you will be held accountable


++

 

[Word based mystic]

town heretic .. that was helpful I copied to a word doc and will try it out soon.

desert reign.
None of this was pointed at you. But a general observation of how we as christians should truly have our first and foremost thoughts as loving our enemies. If your family and friends are not born again than that would be a valid concern to increase the opportunities for them to become born again.
sorry you felt such a personal attack. my initial comment was one of commenting on the need for prayer for our enemies. The thread showed little focus on their lost state and more of a mocking of loving your enemies.
no personal attack their.
You seem to have taken the knee jerk comment as if I am wanting to eliminate your desire to defend yourself or your family. I agreed with that earlier in my comments relating to my military service.
should the government defend our country YES Should you defend your family YES.. Should we pray and love our enemies YES. For that Love and prayer is what stops the cycle of violence as well as forgiveness. Should we condemn missionaries from going to those countries as ones who are committing suicide? No. much of the scriptures was ignored in much of the comments here.