God's Truth
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How do you ever accept the lie from the devil, so that you become a worker for him, to preach believing and obeying God is wrong?
John Calvin's Nazi God.
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How do you ever accept the lie from the devil, so that you become a worker for him, to preach believing and obeying God is wrong?
marhig
Well-known member
Satan didn't give anyone free will, Satan is the tempter. God gives us freewill to choose whether to obey him or not. And we have that choice to make every day, obey God and do his will, or obey Satan when he tempts us and sin.
You say Satan is the God of free will, yet Jesus had free will, so who's his God?
marhig
Well-known member
I honestly mean this with sincerity, I think you need to look at yourself. Because anyone who thinks that they don't have to live by the will of God and obey him, is being deluded by Satan's lies!
beloved57
Well-known member
Don't know what you talking about. Show me a scripture saying man has a freewill. As far as Jesus is concerned, I don't believe in your Jesus.
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beloved57
Well-known member
marhig
Well-known member
Really? So I'm a deluded liar because I say that I believe that we should live by the will of God and obey him?
Even Jesus himself had free will, but chose not to do his will but to live by the will of God and obey him.
You think that I'm the one who is deluded, yet you say that Satan is the God of free will, and Jesus had free will. So who is his God?
beloved57
Well-known member
You lied on me. Also, I don't believe in your god or jesus!
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marhig
Well-known member
Well, I hope that one day God opens your eyes, and you realise that we are to live by his will. Because until you do that, you are denying Christ, because if your not living by the will of God, then you are living by the lusts of your flesh, and that means that the life of Christ can't be seen through you.
beloved57
Well-known member
I knew it !! You don't believe in God or Christ
Ask Mr. Religion
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We are Not Captains of Our Own Souls
We are Not Captains of Our Own Souls
The anti-Calvinist may deny predestination as we Calvinists understand it to be, but in their denial, they set about crafting a typical anti-Calvinist version of predestination.
In the anti-Calvinist view, predestination implies that God chose certain qualities or properties of persons—faith, repentance, holiness, and perseverance—with a purpose of admitting to heaven all those, whoever they might be, who possess or exhibit these qualities or properties, and consigns to eternal punishment all those who, after being favored with suitable opportunities, who fail to exhibit these personal qualities.
Note carefully here what the anti-Calvinist believes: it is man who is responsible for his own salvation, which explains why you will find this sort of abominable claim:
In other words, the person who chooses wisely, a fallen person in Adam who seemingly possesses the moral ability to choose righteousness, is granted admittance to the Kingdom. Therefore, it must follow that the person who does not choose wisely, is consigned to eternal punishment. After all, surely no one but the errant open theist denies God knows the future choices of His creatures. The attempt to let God off the hook for one's final destiny is but a dilution of His sovereignty, relegating God to but a contingent being, while He wrings His hands, pleading and hoping His apparently autonomous creatures will make the right choices.
No matter how much the anti-Calvinist's rhetorical bravado denies predestination as a Scriptural concept, they cannot escape the plain fact that they have actually crafted a version of predestination that has no warrant from Scripture. In effect, the anti-Calvinist claims that God declares those that exhibit personal qualities such as faith and repentance will be saved. Those that do not choose wisely will be damned.
Contrary to the anti-Calvinist's denial of any notion of predestination in Scripture—for example, Matthew 11:20, 25; 13:11; 25:34; Luke 10:20; 12:32; John 8:47; 15:16; Rom. 8:29, 30; Rom. 9; Eph. 1:4, 5; 2 Tim. 1:9; 1 Thess. 5:9; 2 Thess. 2:13—the view described earlier above is actually predestination, albeit the anti-Calvinist's personally constructed and warped version of Scripture's predestination.
It as if no one grasps the terrible state of all born in Adam described in Scripture (Jer. 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; Eph. 2:2; Eph. 2:4-5; Titus 3:5; John 3:19; Rom. 3:10-12; 5:6; 6:16-20; Eph. 2:1,3;1 Cor. 2:14). Not unexpectedly, these anti-Calvinists do not like the implications of original sin, so they assume all are born morally neutral and only become sinners when they sin, and will deny its plain teachings or limit the effects of orginal sin to suit their desperate cling to autonomy.
It would be better that the anti-Calvinist would plainly state what he believes, that to them predestination means the above, rather than asserting there is no such thing as predestination of individuals, but only nations, as if nations are an empty set containing no actual individuals, all despite the teachings of Scripture.
It is far better to grasp from Scripture, the works of God for those He has set His preferences upon:
- draws people to Himself (John 6:44,65);
- creates a clean heart (Psalm 51:10; Eze. 36:26);
- appoints people to believe (Acts 13:48);
- works faith in the believer (John 6:28-29);
- chooses who is to be holy and blameless (Eph. 1:4);
- chooses us for salvation (2 Thes. 2:13-14);
- grants the act of believing (Phil. 1:29);
- grants repentance (2 Tim. 2:24-26);
- calls according to His purpose (2 Tim. 1:9);
- causes us to be born again (1 Pet. 1:3);
- predestines us to salvation (Rom. 8:29-30);
- predestines us to adoption (Eph. 1:5);
- predestines us according to His purpose (Eph. 1:11); and
- makes us born again not by our will but by His will (John 1:12-13).
Accordingly, in rebellion to the above, the anti-Calvinist has essentially crafted their own anti-Calvinist manifesto:
The anti-Calvinist's Soteriological Manifesto
I was born with free will
I possess the power to seek after God
I improved upon the grace God gives equally to all persons
I did what my neighbor did not
I know God does not actually make me willing when I am not
I know God's grace does not distinguish me from anyone else
I made use of God's grace and such is why I am different than others
Seeing themselves as the captains of their own destiny, leveraging their manifesto, the anti-Calvinists thusly conduct themselves in communion with their Maker along the following lines:
“Lord, I thank thee that I am not like these poor, presumptuous Calvinists. Lord, I was born with a glorious free will; I was born with a power by which I can turn to thee of myself; I have improved my grace. If everybody had done the same with their grace as I have, they might all have been saved. Lord, I know that thou dost not make us willing if we are not willing ourselves… it was not thy grace that made us differ… I made use of what was given me, and others did not—that is the difference between me and them.”
Src: Spurgeon, Sermon on John 5:40 “Free Will a Slave” The New Park Street Pulpit, 1855- 1856, Volumes I & II (Pilgrim 1975), 395-402.
Sigh.
AMR
We are Not Captains of Our Own Souls
The anti-Calvinist may deny predestination as we Calvinists understand it to be, but in their denial, they set about crafting a typical anti-Calvinist version of predestination.
In the anti-Calvinist view, predestination implies that God chose certain qualities or properties of persons—faith, repentance, holiness, and perseverance—with a purpose of admitting to heaven all those, whoever they might be, who possess or exhibit these qualities or properties, and consigns to eternal punishment all those who, after being favored with suitable opportunities, who fail to exhibit these personal qualities.
Note carefully here what the anti-Calvinist believes: it is man who is responsible for his own salvation, which explains why you will find this sort of abominable claim:
In other words, the person who chooses wisely, a fallen person in Adam who seemingly possesses the moral ability to choose righteousness, is granted admittance to the Kingdom. Therefore, it must follow that the person who does not choose wisely, is consigned to eternal punishment. After all, surely no one but the errant open theist denies God knows the future choices of His creatures. The attempt to let God off the hook for one's final destiny is but a dilution of His sovereignty, relegating God to but a contingent being, while He wrings His hands, pleading and hoping His apparently autonomous creatures will make the right choices.
Spoiler
No matter how much the anti-Calvinist's rhetorical bravado denies predestination as a Scriptural concept, they cannot escape the plain fact that they have actually crafted a version of predestination that has no warrant from Scripture. In effect, the anti-Calvinist claims that God declares those that exhibit personal qualities such as faith and repentance will be saved. Those that do not choose wisely will be damned.
Contrary to the anti-Calvinist's denial of any notion of predestination in Scripture—for example, Matthew 11:20, 25; 13:11; 25:34; Luke 10:20; 12:32; John 8:47; 15:16; Rom. 8:29, 30; Rom. 9; Eph. 1:4, 5; 2 Tim. 1:9; 1 Thess. 5:9; 2 Thess. 2:13—the view described earlier above is actually predestination, albeit the anti-Calvinist's personally constructed and warped version of Scripture's predestination.
It as if no one grasps the terrible state of all born in Adam described in Scripture (Jer. 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; Eph. 2:2; Eph. 2:4-5; Titus 3:5; John 3:19; Rom. 3:10-12; 5:6; 6:16-20; Eph. 2:1,3;1 Cor. 2:14). Not unexpectedly, these anti-Calvinists do not like the implications of original sin, so they assume all are born morally neutral and only become sinners when they sin, and will deny its plain teachings or limit the effects of orginal sin to suit their desperate cling to autonomy.
It would be better that the anti-Calvinist would plainly state what he believes, that to them predestination means the above, rather than asserting there is no such thing as predestination of individuals, but only nations, as if nations are an empty set containing no actual individuals, all despite the teachings of Scripture.
It is far better to grasp from Scripture, the works of God for those He has set His preferences upon:
- draws people to Himself (John 6:44,65);
- creates a clean heart (Psalm 51:10; Eze. 36:26);
- appoints people to believe (Acts 13:48);
- works faith in the believer (John 6:28-29);
- chooses who is to be holy and blameless (Eph. 1:4);
- chooses us for salvation (2 Thes. 2:13-14);
- grants the act of believing (Phil. 1:29);
- grants repentance (2 Tim. 2:24-26);
- calls according to His purpose (2 Tim. 1:9);
- causes us to be born again (1 Pet. 1:3);
- predestines us to salvation (Rom. 8:29-30);
- predestines us to adoption (Eph. 1:5);
- predestines us according to His purpose (Eph. 1:11); and
- makes us born again not by our will but by His will (John 1:12-13).
Accordingly, in rebellion to the above, the anti-Calvinist has essentially crafted their own anti-Calvinist manifesto:
The anti-Calvinist's Soteriological Manifesto
I was born with free will
I possess the power to seek after God
I improved upon the grace God gives equally to all persons
I did what my neighbor did not
I know God does not actually make me willing when I am not
I know God's grace does not distinguish me from anyone else
I made use of God's grace and such is why I am different than others
Seeing themselves as the captains of their own destiny, leveraging their manifesto, the anti-Calvinists thusly conduct themselves in communion with their Maker along the following lines:
“Lord, I thank thee that I am not like these poor, presumptuous Calvinists. Lord, I was born with a glorious free will; I was born with a power by which I can turn to thee of myself; I have improved my grace. If everybody had done the same with their grace as I have, they might all have been saved. Lord, I know that thou dost not make us willing if we are not willing ourselves… it was not thy grace that made us differ… I made use of what was given me, and others did not—that is the difference between me and them.”
Src: Spurgeon, Sermon on John 5:40 “Free Will a Slave” The New Park Street Pulpit, 1855- 1856, Volumes I & II (Pilgrim 1975), 395-402.
Sigh.
AMR
Ask Mr. Religion
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Quoting, learn how it is better done:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...el-or-Isrealites/page15&p=4915691#post4915691
AMR
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...el-or-Isrealites/page15&p=4915691#post4915691
AMR
It is difficult to address you seriously when you literally speak as if Calvinism is the Gospel. You reveal that you see theology as Calvinism and Non-Calvinism. I could write books on my personal theological views, but call me old fashioned... I can navigate all theological, theosophical, Diest, Pantheist, Pan-Antheist... any waters having to do with the assertion that humanity has a Spiritual Conciseness... with the old 66 book ball and chain.
I've always listened and learned when people have a view... but, if it is refuted by the 66... I file it away in the unbiblical category. I feel that you go to great lengths to justify your stances... but you are so full of defense... you have closed the theological door to learning.
How can I desire to learn from someone who has lost their desire to learn?
If you can just pick books off the shelf that tell you what to believe scripture is saying... how can the Holy Spirit get through to the carnal, theological understanding part of you?
I could give you 1,000,000 scriptures, written in your beautiful format...
But...
Spoiler
God does NOTHING outside of his holy, just, merciful, righteous nature and character.
The God of Calvinism cannot be trusted because he is unjust.
Intellectual dishonesty and denial is strong with you all.
Theology explains Scripture because it is derived from Scripture. What you are trying to get off on is the shiny, sparkly cliche that the Bible explains- but what you interpret becomes your theology.
So it's a completely invalid point- you're just being circular.
So while you all high-five and bro-bump each other, just know that you're all idiots
Intellectual dishonesty and denial is strong with you all.
Theology explains Scripture because it is derived from Scripture. What you are trying to get off on is the shiny, sparkly cliche that the Bible explains- but what you interpret becomes your theology.
So it's a completely invalid point- you're just being circular.
So while you all high-five and bro-bump each other, just know that you're all idiots
Sooooo... my reply is....
#Scripture explains scripture
#With Jesus indwelling us... bodda-bing! Stuff gets awesome.
#Calvin Batteries not included or required.
Glad to see that you're willing to be seen as stupid than just simply admitting the supreme fail in your logic
Pretty much done debating you all for a while.
Glad to see that you're willing to be seen as stupid than just simply admitting the supreme fail in your logic
Pretty much done debating you all for a while.
i would be my slick self... but, fair enough. I'm genuinely glad you're safe. Be carful where ever you are. If we're done debating... then I'm back to the easy going me with you.
I always did enjoy going round and round over scripture with you.
; )
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