את
'êth
ayth
"Apparently contracted from H226 in the demonstrative sense of entity; properly self (but generally used to point out more definitely the object of a verb or preposition, even or namely)"-Strongs
Jesus is God
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
את
'êth
ayth
"Apparently contracted from H226 in the demonstrative sense of entity; properly self (but generally used to point out more definitely the object of a verb or preposition, even or namely)"-Strongs
glorydaz
Well-known member
Oh, so you wouldn't believe that with God all things are possible, is that it? What kind of a God wouldn't be able to come in the flesh, and then raise that very body He made for Himself from the dead? Instead of believing what Jesus said He would do, you prefer to think God is not able to perform what He has promised. That's called unbelief.
You sure ain't no Abraham, are ya, Keypurr? :nono:
Romans 4:20
He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
You speak out of your unbelief.
John 10:17-18
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
I think not... It was His God... whom He claims to have... that raised Him!!! :think:
The Bible states that after his sermon on the day of Pentecost about 3000 persons were saved... When preaching to these Jews Peter presents a Messiah who is the descendent of King David (v.30). He is one who would have rotted and decayed in the grave like any other man had not God raised him up again (v.24-32). Because God authenticated "this Jesus" by resurrecting him (thus reversing the national verdict accusing him of blasphemy, that is, claiming to be God's Messiah), Jesus is now "exulted to the right hand of God" (v. 33). God has thus sealed "this Jesus whom you crucified" (v.36) and declared him as "Lord and Messiah" to the nation of Israel and "for all who are far off" (the Gentiles as well, v.39). The proof of his Messiahship is that the Holy Spirit has been poured out. Every Jew believed that the dawning of the new Messianic age would usher in a mighty outpouring of God Spirit. This Jewish audience knew that Peter statements meant that the God of their fathers, Jehovah, had raise Jesus in fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecies concerning the Christ. Their understanding that "Jesus is Lord" was governed by their understanding of the messianic fulfillment of Psalms 110 as Peter quotes it in Acts here.
No unitary monotheistic Jew would have taken Peter statements in Acts 2 to mean that Messiah was Jehovah God. It must be interpreted with Hebrew eyes this same pattern is followed throughout Acts.
In the next chapter, Peter calls Jesus anything but the Lord God. Jesus is called God’s "servant" twice (Acts 3:13, 26); God's "Christ" (v. 18:20); "the Prince of life" (a title nowhere in the Bible applied to God, v.15); the "prophets" whom Moses predicted (v.22,23). In fact, Peter is very careful not to confuse the identity of the Lord God and this Jesus who is the Lord Messiah. Note verse 13 where Peter says, "The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers as glorified his servant Jesus, the one whom you delivered up, and disowned in the presence of pilate, when he had decided to release him." This same expression "The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob" appears in Exodus 3:15 where God tells Moses to announce to the people that "The LORD [YHWH], they got of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, has sent me to you" (Ex 3:15). The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob equals the LORD (Jehovah). Here in Acts 3:13 it is "The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers" who has now "glorified his servant Jesus."
Is Jesus then the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers? Absolutely not! This would make complete nonsense of the text. The God of Abraham glorified who? Himself? No: His servant Jesus. Jesus is not the God of Abraham. Jesus is not Jehovah, the LORD. He is God anointed one, God's servant.
Act 2:24 "But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.
Act 10:40 "God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible,
Act 13:29 "When they had carried out all that was written concerning Him, they took Him down from the cross and laid Him in a tomb. "But God raised Him from the dead;
No scripture ever teaches that Jesus raised Himself! :think:
You should ignore the behind the forum private communications from Trinitarians telling you to avoid communicating with me. If I'm so wrong then you should easily make me eat your lunch!
oly::sherlock:Paul
You speak as a Child!!!
The Bible makes a careful distinction between God and man. God is the Lord God (Adonai), or when his personal name is used, Yahweh, and Jesus is his unique, sinless, virginally conceived human son (adoni, my lord, Luke 1:43; 2:11). Adonai is found 449 times in the Old Testament and distinguishes the One God from all others. Adonai is not the word describing the son of God, Jesus, and Psalms 110:1. adoni appears 195 times and refers only to a human (or occasionally an angelic) lord, that is, someone who is not God. This should cut through a lot of complicated post Biblical argumentation and create a making which in subtle ways that secures the simple and most basic Biblical truth, that God is a single person and that the Messiah is the second Adam, "the Man Messiah" (1 Tim. 2:5).
Let's have a look at a few Old Testament verses that show us the clear distinction alluded to here. In Genesis 15:2, Abraham prays to God and says, "O LORD, God [Adonai Yahweh], what will you give me, since I am childless?" In another prayer Abraham's servant addresses God: "O LORD, God of my lord Abraham, please grant me success today" (Gen. 24:12). The second word for "my lord" here is adoni which according to any standard Hebrew lexicon means "Lord," "Master," or "owner." Another example is found in David's speech to his men after he had cut off the hem of King Saul's robe and his conscience bothered him: "So he said to his men, far be it from me because of the Lord [here the word is Yahweh, Lord God] that I should do this thing to my lord [adoni].”
The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, page 157. states… "The form Adoni (‘my lord’), a royal title (Sam. 29:8), is to be carefully distinguished from the divine title Adonai (‘Lord’) used of Yahweh. Adonai the special plural form [the divine title] distinguishes it from adoni [with short vowel] = ‘my lords.’”
Hastings Dictionary of the Bible, vol. 3, page 137. States… “lord in the Old Testament is used to translate Adonai when applied to the Divine Being. The [Hebrew] word… has a suffix [with a special pointing] presumably for the sake of distinction... between divine and human appellative.” Wigram,
The Englishman’s Hebrew and Chaldee Concordance of the Old Testament, p. 22. states…
“The form ‘to my lord,’ I’adoni, is never used in the Old Testament as a divine reference… the general excepted fact is that the masoretic pointing distinguishes divine reference (adonai) from human references (adoni).”
“The Hebrew Adonai exclusively denotes the God of Israel. It is attested about 450 times in the Old Testament…Adoni [is] addressed to human beings (Gen 44:7; Num 32:25; 2 Kings 2:19, etc.). We have to assume that the word Adonai received it’s special form to distinguish it from the secular use of adon [i.e. adoni]. The reason why [God is addressed] as Adonai [with long vowel] instead of the normal adon, adoni or adonai [short vowel] may have been to distinguish Yahweh from other gods and from other human Lord's.” from Dictionary of deities and demons in the Bible, p. 531.
Occasionally, it will be objected that this distinction between Adonai and adoni was a late addition to the Hebrew text by the Mesorites around 600 to 700 AD and therefore is not reliable. This objection needs to be considered in the light of the fact that the Hebrew translators of the Septuagint (the LXX) around 250 B.C. recognize and carefully maintained this Hebrew distinction in their work. They never translated the second “lord” of Psalm 110:1 (“my lord,” kyrios mou) to mean the Deity. The first LORD of Psalm 110:1 (the LORD, Ho Kyrios) they always reserve for the one God, Jehovah.
Your welcome jamie,
oly::sherlock:Paul
keypurr
Well-known member
Stop beating around the bush and show me the verse that says Jesus raised himself. If you can not do that then it is proof that you are assuming, adding words to scripture.
If he could do that then he really did not die and our faith moot.
keypurr
Well-known member
I don't think you understand that verse friend.
manifest = to make known.
It does not mean God came down to earth to visit us.
He sent his son, when are you going to see that.
Krsto
Well-known member
Theological gobledegook.
Looks like we have different interpretations as to just what that means.
No need to do that since they are one as a divine being and a human being. There is nothing in his statements about oneness that demands or even implies that he is an eternal being. Please keep in mind Jesus prayed that us Christians would be one "even as you (Father) and I are one". What does that tell you about the kind of oneness Jesus spoke of just a few verses away in John?
keypurr
Well-known member
I did not say he could not do it, I said he did not do it.
Not really, I just prove all things and not blindly let a church tell me what to think. Your just a puppet of tradition.
Now using your wisdom show me where he raised himself from the dead. This verse does not say that he did that.
I wonder how many here hang up their stocking on Christmas eve.
I did when I was a kid, now I am grown up and I think for myself.
keypurr
Well-known member
I think not... It was His God... whom He claims to have... that raised Him!!! :think:
The Bible states that after his sermon on the day of Pentecost about 3000 persons were saved... When preaching to these Jews Peter presents a Messiah who is the descendent of King David (v.30). He is one who would have rotted and decayed in the grave like any other man had not God raised him up again (v.24-32). Because God authenticated "this Jesus" by resurrecting him (thus reversing the national verdict accusing him of blasphemy, that is, claiming to be God's Messiah), Jesus is now "exulted to the right hand of God" (v. 33). God has thus sealed "this Jesus whom you crucified" (v.36) and declared him as "Lord and Messiah" to the nation of Israel and "for all who are far off" (the Gentiles as well, v.39). The proof of his Messiahship is that the Holy Spirit has been poured out. Every Jew believed that the dawning of the new Messianic age would usher in a mighty outpouring of God Spirit. This Jewish audience knew that Peter statements meant that the God of their fathers, Jehovah, had raise Jesus in fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecies concerning the Christ. Their understanding that "Jesus is Lord" was governed by their understanding of the messianic fulfillment of Psalms 110 as Peter quotes it in Acts here.
No unitary monotheistic Jew would have taken Peter statements in Acts 2 to mean that Messiah was Jehovah God. It must be interpreted with Hebrew eyes this same pattern is followed throughout Acts.
In the next chapter, Peter calls Jesus anything but the Lord God. Jesus is called God’s "servant" twice (Acts 3:13, 26); God's "Christ" (v. 18:20); "the Prince of life" (a title nowhere in the Bible applied to God, v.15); the "prophets" whom Moses predicted (v.22,23). In fact, Peter is very careful not to confuse the identity of the Lord God and this Jesus who is the Lord Messiah. Note verse 13 where Peter says, "The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers as glorified his servant Jesus, the one whom you delivered up, and disowned in the presence of pilate, when he had decided to release him." This same expression "The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob" appears in Exodus 3:15 where God tells Moses to announce to the people that "The LORD [YHWH], they got of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, has sent me to you" (Ex 3:15). The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob equals the LORD (Jehovah). Here in Acts 3:13 it is "The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers" who has now "glorified his servant Jesus."
Is Jesus then the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers? Absolutely not! This would make complete nonsense of the text. The God of Abraham glorified who? Himself? No: His servant Jesus. Jesus is not the God of Abraham. Jesus is not Jehovah, the LORD. He is God anointed one, God's servant.
Act 2:24 "But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.
Act 10:40 "God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible,
Act 13:29 "When they had carried out all that was written concerning Him, they took Him down from the cross and laid Him in a tomb. "But God raised Him from the dead;
No scripture ever teaches that Jesus raised Himself! :think:
You should ignore the behind the forum private communications from Trinitarians telling you to avoid communicating with me. If I'm so wrong then you should easily make me eat your lunch!
Paul
Excellent post Paul but their minds is not open to truth.
Krsto
Well-known member
John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
Not that this validates trinitarian theology. It just demonstrates Jesus was given the authority (as a disembodied soul, one would think) to raise his body and re-unite his soul with his risen body.
Krsto
Well-known member
FYI Paul said in Romans that the message had been preached in all the "world".
Rom. 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
Your deceitful assertion that Jesus effectively wondered about making meaningless claims that he never carried out puts the burden of proof on you that he didn't follow through with his directive "tear down this temple (his body) and in three days I will raise it up again."
Jesus did in fact return from the dead as he said he would, you are now the fool who wants to deny him because you can't or wont understand plural manifestation.
"When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted"
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I think not... It was His God... whom He claims to have... that raised Him!!! :think:
The Bible states that after his sermon on the day of Pentecost about 3000 persons were saved... When preaching to these Jews Peter presents a Messiah who is the descendent of King David (v.30). He is one who would have rotted and decayed in the grave like any other man had not God raised him up again (v.24-32). Because God authenticated "this Jesus" by resurrecting him (thus reversing the national verdict accusing him of blasphemy, that is, claiming to be God's Messiah), Jesus is now "exulted to the right hand of God" (v. 33). God has thus sealed "this Jesus whom you crucified" (v.36) and declared him as "Lord and Messiah" to the nation of Israel and "for all who are far off" (the Gentiles as well, v.39). The proof of his Messiahship is that the Holy Spirit has been poured out. Every Jew believed that the dawning of the new Messianic age would usher in a mighty outpouring of God Spirit. This Jewish audience knew that Peter statements meant that the God of their fathers, Jehovah, had raise Jesus in fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecies concerning the Christ. Their understanding that "Jesus is Lord" was governed by their understanding of the messianic fulfillment of Psalms 110 as Peter quotes it in Acts here.
No unitary monotheistic Jew would have taken Peter statements in Acts 2 to mean that Messiah was Jehovah God. It must be interpreted with Hebrew eyes this same pattern is followed throughout Acts.
In the next chapter, Peter calls Jesus anything but the Lord God. Jesus is called God’s "servant" twice (Acts 3:13, 26); God's "Christ" (v. 18:20); "the Prince of life" (a title nowhere in the Bible applied to God, v.15); the "prophets" whom Moses predicted (v.22,23). In fact, Peter is very careful not to confuse the identity of the Lord God and this Jesus who is the Lord Messiah. Note verse 13 where Peter says, "The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers as glorified his servant Jesus, the one whom you delivered up, and disowned in the presence of pilate, when he had decided to release him." This same expression "The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob" appears in Exodus 3:15 where God tells Moses to announce to the people that "The LORD [YHWH], they got of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, has sent me to you" (Ex 3:15). The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob equals the LORD (Jehovah). Here in Acts 3:13 it is "The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers" who has now "glorified his servant Jesus."
Is Jesus then the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers? Absolutely not! This would make complete nonsense of the text. The God of Abraham glorified who? Himself? No: His servant Jesus. Jesus is not the God of Abraham. Jesus is not Jehovah, the LORD. He is God anointed one, God's servant.
Act 2:24 "But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.
Act 10:40 "God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible,
Act 13:29 "When they had carried out all that was written concerning Him, they took Him down from the cross and laid Him in a tomb. "But God raised Him from the dead;
No scripture ever teaches that Jesus raised Himself! :think:
You should ignore the behind the forum private communications from Trinitarians telling you to avoid communicating with me. If I'm so wrong then you should easily make me eat your lunch!
Paul
I've never had anyone help me with the obvious, Arius's people are the low hanging fruit. Like fish in a barrel, they throw out the good water in their anti-Catholicism.
The Word raised Jesus because Jesus is the Word, he is a personification of the Father.
He was the living Word personified before the incarnation, he was the living Word personified during the human life of Jesus, he was the living Word while the body of Jesus lay in the tomb, he was the living Word in the resurrected form of Jesus, he is the living Word now on high and even here among us now as we discus this.
NOTE: Anti-Jesus is God people don't quote Jesus, they go to secondary characterizations which appear to support their arguments, but to say God raised Jesus from the dead is synonymous with Jesus raising up his body after being dead for three days.
Here, it's like sunlight on vampires:
The Jews then said to Him, "What sign do You show us as your authority for doing these things?" Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."
He would again address this self existent power and authority as God incarnate in man:
"For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. "No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father."
Under Pressure
Member
Trinitarians are :kookoo:.
Thanks, and the word 'êth is not found in Zechariah 12:10.
The word "me" was supplied by the translators and is not inspired. The translators should have said him.
They shall look upon him whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, and shall be in bitterness for him.
Then said Jesus unto them, "When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he and that I do nothing of myself, but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things." (John 8:28)
Jesus spoke for the Father who raised him from the dead. Jesus did nothing of himself.
No human has ever raised himself from the dead or we would have no cemetaries.
Krsto
Well-known member
"I do nothing of myself" doesn't mean he didn't do anything. It means he didn't have intrinsic powers to do miracles or know what to teach without God first giving him the ability. Jesus raised himself from the dead and it wasn't done of himself. He got the power from God. Since the power came from the Father then the Father can also say that he raised Christ's body, and it was done through the soul of Christ.
Doesn't this make sense to you?
We must harmonize all that the scriptures say about it, not pit scriptures against scriptures.
That's what the Jewish scripture worshipers said about Jesus, they rejected him for the same sort of reason, they could not think outside the box of their own making. While traces of plural deity remain in the scripture fetish, by the times of the enmass redactions of the OT in Babylon, plural manifestation of the I AM had practically been eradicated. Jesus chose 12 common place men who would be open minded enough to receive his new revelation of truth. It was the old guard that battled him.
keypurr
Well-known member
We agree Jesus was raised from the dead, the issue is WHO raised him.
God raised him, you have been shown that. Jesus was DEAD. The dead know nothing. Their thoughts perish. Jesus could not raise himself if he was truly dead. This is proof that God raised him just as scripture tells us. Believe in the Bible as it is written. Do not confine yourself to any one translation. The translators at times inserted their own thoughts. It is you who make the claim that he raised himself and it is you who needs to prove that claim. You said it, you prove it.
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keypurr
Well-known member
You have been quoted the words of Jesus and you turn your back to them.
John 17:3. Start there to build your faith.
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