Jesus CANNOT be Jehovah/YHVH God

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Dartman

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Deut 18:17-18 And Jehovah said unto me, They have well said that which they have spoken. 18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.


John 12:49-50 For I spake not from myself; but the Father that sent me, He hath given me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His commandment is life eternal: the things therefore which I speak, even as the Father hath said unto me, so I speak.


John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my words: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me.





It is impossible for Jesus to be "Jehovah" because Jesus is NOT the source of the words he spoke, his God is. His FATHER is Jehovah!
 

glorydaz

New member
Deut 18:17-18 And Jehovah said unto me, They have well said that which they have spoken. 18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.


John 12:49-50 For I spake not from myself; but the Father that sent me, He hath given me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His commandment is life eternal: the things therefore which I speak, even as the Father hath said unto me, so I speak.


John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my words: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me.





It is impossible for Jesus to be "Jehovah" because Jesus is NOT the source of the words he spoke, his God is. His FATHER is Jehovah!

I don't think we need anymore Anti-Christ threads around here.
 

Idolater

Well-known member
Deut 18:17-18 And Jehovah said unto me, They have well said that which they have spoken. 18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.


John 12:49-50 For I spake not from myself; but the Father that sent me, He hath given me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His commandment is life eternal: the things therefore which I speak, even as the Father hath said unto me, so I speak.


John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my words: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me.





It is impossible for Jesus to be "Jehovah" because Jesus is NOT the source of the words he spoke, his God is. His FATHER is Jehovah!
God is the Father, Son, and Spirit. The Father is God, the Son is God, the Spirit is God. The Father generates the Son, and the Spirit proceeds from the Father, and from the Son. The Father is not the Son or the Spirit, and the Son is not the Spirit.

Numbers 6:24-26 KJV "The LORD1 bless thee, and keep thee: 25 The LORD2 make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: 26 The LORD3 lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace."

Matthew 28:19 KJV "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father,1 and of the Son,2 and of the Holy Ghost:3"

2nd Corinthians 13:14 KJV "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ,1 and the love of God,2 and the communion of the Holy Ghost,3 be with you all."

1st Peter 1:2 KJV "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,1 through sanctification of the Spirit,2 unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:3 Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied."

It's as easy as 1, 2, 3.
 

TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings Dartman and glorydaz,
Deut 18:17-18 John 12:49-50 John 14:24
It is impossible for Jesus to be "Jehovah" because Jesus is NOT the source of the words he spoke, his God is. His FATHER is Jehovah!
I agree that Jesus is not "Jehovah", or as I believe more correctly Yahweh (refer Rotherham’s introduction), as Yahweh is God the Father, while Jesus is the Son of God. The following clearly distinguishes Yahweh from David’s Lord, our Lord Jesus Christ.
Psalm 110:1 (KJV): The LORD (Yahweh) said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
I don't think we need anymore Anti-Christ threads around here.
I disagree with your assessment, as Psalm 110:1 is used as a basis in Peter’s speech to correctly explain why Jesus is now exalted to be Lord and Christ, a concept that is not appreciated on this Forum by many members.
Acts 2:34–36 (KJV): 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Thus a clear understanding of the distinction between Yahweh, God the Father and the Son of God, our Lord Jesus Christ helps us to focus on the true Christ.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Dartman

New member
God is the Father, Son, and Spirit.
Not according to the Scriptures. Jesus and the apostles ALL state, the Father is "the ONLY true God".
Idolater said:
The Father is God, the Son is God, the Spirit is God. The Father generates the Son, and the Spirit proceeds from the Father, and from the Son. The Father is not the Son or the Spirit, and the Son is not the Spirit.
Yeah, we know the "party line". It's been the same since 381AD. Again, this disagrees with the Scriptures.
Idolater said:
Numbers 6:24-26 KJV "The LORD1 bless thee, and keep thee: 25 The LORD2 make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: 26 The LORD3 lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace."
Num 6:23-27
23 Speak unto Aaron and unto his sons, saying, On this wise ye shall bless the children of Israel: ye shall say unto them,
24 Jehovah bless thee, and keep thee: 1
25 Jehovah make his face to shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:1
26 Jehovah lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.1
27 So shall they put My name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.


Idolater said:
Matthew 28:19 KJV "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father,1 and of the Son,2 and of the Holy Ghost:3"

2nd Corinthians 13:14 KJV "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ,1 and the love of God,2 and the communion of the Holy Ghost,3 be with you all."

1st Peter 1:2 KJV "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,1 through sanctification of the Spirit,2 unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:3 Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied."

It's as easy as 1, 2, 3.
Yep, all three are part of the gospel..... only the Father is God, Jesus is His son, the holy spirit is God's mind, and the power produced by God's mind.
 

Dartman

New member
Greetings Dartman and glorydaz, I agree that Jesus is not "Jehovah", or as I believe more correctly Yahweh (refer Rotherham’s introduction), as Yahweh is God the Father, while Jesus is the Son of God. The following clearly distinguishes Yahweh from David’s Lord, our Lord Jesus Christ.
Psalm 110:1 (KJV): The LORD (Yahweh) said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
I disagree with your assessment, as Psalm 110:1 is used as a basis in Peter’s speech to correctly explain why Jesus is now exalted to be Lord and Christ, a concept that is not appreciated on this Forum by many members.
Acts 2:34–36 (KJV): 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Thus a clear understanding of the distinction between Yahweh, God the Father and the Son of God, our Lord Jesus Christ helps us to focus on the true Christ.

Kind regards
Trevor
Wonderful post, both content and tone!
I have NO problem with Yahweh, Yehovah, Jehovah or YHVH, The reason I generally use "Jehovah" is, that's the spelling used by the ASV.
That way it is EASY to quote passages, and then use the same spelling in discussion.

If you know of a good translation that uses Yahweh, or another spelling, I would like to check it out!
 

chair

Well-known member
...

Numbers 6:24-26 KJV "The LORD1 bless thee, and keep thee: 25 The LORD2 make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: 26 The LORD3 lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace."...

Misuse of these verses. Just because there are 3 blessings doesn't make it connected to the Trinity. Since it refers to God the same way in all of the verses, it is a very poor proof text for the concept of the Trinity. Now, if it said something like " The Father bless the and keep thee: the Son make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious to thee: The Holy Ghost lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace", well, that would be a different matter. But it doesn't.

By the way, the priests bless using these verses to this day.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Deut 18:17-18 And Jehovah said unto me, They have well said that which they have spoken. 18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.


John 12:49-50 For I spake not from myself; but the Father that sent me, He hath given me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His commandment is life eternal: the things therefore which I speak, even as the Father hath said unto me, so I speak.


John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my words: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me.





It is impossible for Jesus to be "Jehovah" because Jesus is NOT the source of the words he spoke, his God is. His FATHER is Jehovah!

Yes, indeed.

The trinitarian doctrine cannot distinguish between the Lord God and His son the lord Jesus Christ

Acts 2:34

34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

But scripture makes a clear and unmistakable distinctions between the two.

The Father is not the son and the son is not the Father.

The Father is the literal father of the son.
 

Idolater

Well-known member
Misuse of these verses. Just because there are 3 blessings doesn't make it connected to the Trinity. Since it refers to God the same way in all of the verses, it is a very poor proof text for the concept of the Trinity. Now, if it said something like " The Father bless the and keep thee: the Son make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious to thee: The Holy Ghost lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace", well, that would be a different matter. But it doesn't.

By the way, the priests bless using these verses to this day.
All of what you say is true, if and only if Jesus of Nazareth did NOT rise from the dead.

iow, you're just begging the question.
 

Dartman

New member
You who deny your Lord and Saviour don't belong here on TOL....much less be able to start threads.
I follow Jesus of Nazareth, who God exalted to be Lord and Savior;

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


And I believe him, he said his God, his Father, is "the ONLY true God".
 

chair

Well-known member
All of what you say is true, if and only if Jesus of Nazareth did NOT rise from the dead.

iow, you're just begging the question.

No, this has nothing to do with whether Jesus rose from the dead, or if he was god, or anything of the sort. The verse simply doesn't support the Trinity in any way shape or form. All that it has is three blessings that the Priests call on God to bestow. The only thing that connects it to the Trinity is the number 3. Will you claim that other things that come in threes are also proof of the Trinity? Examples: Cities, holidays, time Balaam's donkey stopped.
 

Dartman

New member
All of what you say is true, if and only if Jesus of Nazareth did NOT rise from the dead.

iow, you're just begging the question.
1 Peter 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Christ's God raised Jesus from the dead, to give Jesus' brothers and sisters hope.

And, you are avoiding the OP,

Deut 18:17-18 And Jehovah said unto me, They have well said that which they have spoken. 18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

John 12:49-50 For I spake not from myself; but the Father that sent me, He hath given me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His commandment is life eternal: the things therefore which I speak, even as the Father hath said unto me, so I speak.
John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my words: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me.
It is impossible for Jesus to be "Jehovah" because Jesus is NOT the source of the words he spoke, his God is. His FATHER is Jehovah!
 

Dartman

New member
No, this has nothing to do with whether Jesus rose from the dead, or if he was god, or anything of the sort. The verse simply doesn't support the Trinity in any way shape or form. All that it has is three blessings that the Priests call on God to bestow. The only thing that connects it to the Trinity is the number 3. Will you claim that other things that come in threes are also proof of the Trinity? Examples: Cities, holidays, time Balaam's donkey stopped.
We have to sympathize with those that are so desperately lacking in evidence, that they will jump at ANY WORDING that even MIGHT be twistable.
It really does underscore the complete lack of ANY Scripture that states or explains their doctrine.
 

Idolater

Well-known member
No, this has nothing to do with whether Jesus rose from the dead, or if he was god, or anything of the sort.
It absolutely does have everything to do with it, for Christians.
The verse simply doesn't support the Trinity in any way shape or form.
And this is your word, and we also have the word of the Apostles, which we receive as authoritative, as Christians. The Apostolic teachings are authoritative, and the Apostles taught the Trinity.
All that it has is three blessings that the Priests call on God to bestow.
Yes, and the LORD is named in each of them. Instead, we could have had the pronoun "He," in the 2nd and 3rd blessings, but we have the Name mentioned three times. You have to wonder why, and Christians do not.
The only thing that connects it to the Trinity is the number 3. Will you claim that other things that come in threes are also proof of the Trinity? Examples: Cities, holidays, time Balaam's donkey stopped.
I'll claim what the Apostles claimed. It has nothing to do with my own personal interpretation of the Scripture, nor the interpretation of people who differ with the Apostolic interpretation.
 

Idolater

Well-known member
1 Peter 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Christ's God raised Jesus from the dead, to give Jesus' brothers and sisters hope.
And, He raised Himself from the dead (Jn2:19KJV).
And, you are avoiding the OP,

Deut 18:17-18 And Jehovah said unto me, They have well said that which they have spoken. 18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

John 12:49-50 For I spake not from myself; but the Father that sent me, He hath given me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His commandment is life eternal: the things therefore which I speak, even as the Father hath said unto me, so I speak.
John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my words: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me.
Yes, like John 10:18 KJV.
It is impossible for Jesus to be "Jehovah" because Jesus is NOT the source of the words he spoke, his God is. His FATHER is Jehovah!
It is impossible for the Son to be the Father. The Father generates the Son. That's just the Trinity.
 

Dartman

New member
And, He raised Himself from the dead (Jn2:19KJV).
Nope. He promised to raise up, to stand up physically, after his God raised him from the dead.
In other words; If you knock this body down, I will stand back up.

Jesus doesn't address the fact that it is his God that resurrected him in this verse.
But the NT is VERY clear, the Father raised Jesus from the dead;

Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
Idolater said:
Yes, like John 10:18 KJV.
It is impossible for the Son to be the Father. The Father generates the Son.
Close! It is impossible for the son to be his own Father, his own God.
And the Father generated the son when Mary conceived in Nazareth, and Jesus was born in Bethlehem.
 
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