Is believing/faith a work ?

JudgeRightly

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Tell Peter, who wrote 1 Peter 3:21.

There is no water in 1 Peter 3:21. In fact, Petere explicitly states that he is not talking about water baptism.

There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, - 1 Peter 3:21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Peter3:21&version=NKJV

It's "baptism through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

I am adding nothing to Christ.

You are attempting to add your good works to Christ's completed work on the cross.

He commanded baptism and repentance.

To Israel.

He commanded obedience to God.

To Israel.

He commanded us to love God with all of our heart, strength, and might; and our neighbor as ourself.

To Israel.

I won't accept a doctrine that repudiates Christ's commands.

No one is repudiating anything.

Only rightly dividing.

You are trying to warm your hands with a glove with only one finger.

Whatever that means...

I don't know if I am glad you have no fear of what God is going to do to the disobedient on the day of judgement, or fearful for you

You should be more concerned about your own eternal destination.

That is when the race is over.

A person's race is over when they get to heaven.

Your interpretation runs counter to what Peter wrote in 1 Peter 4:17 that judgement will begin with the church of God.

No, not "church." "House."

The House of God contains both the people of the New Covenant (AKA Israel) and those in the Body of Christ (Christians).

Peter is referring to "the time of Jacob's trouble" (AKA the Great Tribulation), which definitely comes before the Bema Seat of Christ.

Remember, the Twelve Apostles agreed to go to the circumcision, while Paul goes to the uncircumcision. There's a reason Israel is called Jacob.

A day of judgement is coming, but you don't think you will be judged.
I find that a mistake.

Where did I ever say that I don't think I will be judged?

Because I never said that.

Peter proves your doctrine in error. (1 Peter 4:17)

Saying it doesn't make it so.

I love God's words concerning the death of the old me and the raising up of the new me with Christ at my water baptism.

Your water baptism had nothing to do with it.

I was one of the worst sinners, until I turned from sin.

Just listen to yourself boast in your own achievement!

Thanks be to God for giving the gift of repentance from sin to the Gentiles.

You sound like B57 and his calvinistic nonsense.

Repentance is not a gift that God gives. It's not a gift, period.

It works after a real turn from sin

To repent means "to turn away from (something)."

Repenting from sin is turning away from sin.

But it doesn't mean that you are now sinless. And you are clearly not.

and reception of the gift of the Holy Ghost.

What are you, Charismatic?

The only mentions of the "gift of the Holy Spirit" I can find in the Bible have nothing to do with the Body of Christ today, and the majority of those mentions are specifically dealing with Israel and her New Covenant relationship with God.

God is pleased with obedience,

Yes He is.

and proves it with the gift of the Holy Ghost...

Supra.

Thanks be to God.

You can stop with the mock humility.

You don't know what you are missing.

Is that supposed to mean something?

The New Covenant has not been available to anyone since Paul was converted on the road to Damascus.

People, like yourself, think they can put themselves under it, but they're only making it harder for themselves to understand what the Bible says.

The new creature is everyone who killed the old man at their "immersion" into Christ and into His death and burial.

Wrong.

The "new creation" refers to those who have placed their faith in Christ.

I am a new creature.

No, you're not.

That IS the new covenant.

Then you clearly don't know what the New Covenant is.

So the bible is telling me to stop being obedient to God?

No.

Wow.
What a horrible interpretation of God's will and hope.

That's ironic.

I put my faith in Christ when I turned from sin, repented of sin, and got baptized in His name for the remission of my past sins.

And you apparently also put your faith in your baptism as well. Or did I misread what you said earlier?

He rewarded me with the gift of the Holy Ghost

What, exactly, if anything, do you mean when you say, "the gift of the Holy Ghost"?

so I could continue on with a good conscience towards Him.

Apparently lying was one of the things you learned.

The disobedient can't even walk.

That much is obvious of you.

Already did, many years ago...

But not fully, otherwise you wouldn't rely so much on your water baptism and other things.

thanks be to God for allowing me to hear, and believe the message!

Again with the mock humility.

Amen, the first step to perfect harmony with God on earth.

Missing the point

The "rope" is not endless.

Missing the point.

And it's my analogy, not yours. The point is that you CANNOT climb the rope, therefore let go of the rope and let the one who DID climb the rope carry you.

You're still trying to climb the rope.

It starts at wanting to please God and ends on the day of judgement.

No, it doesn't.

In between are countless tests from God to determine one's resolve.

You're conflating two different things and calling them the same.

Is that faith the one you have been mentioning for the entire post?
But it doesn't do anything?
Yikes!

Faith in and of itself does nothing.

It's simply letting God into your life.

Sorry you have misinterpreted it.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Paul wrote against adhering to the Mosaic Law's works, for salvation.

Wrong.

Paul was not speaking SPECIFICALLY of the Mosaic law, but used it to refer to ALL law, as a whole. ANY LAW that you place yourself under, you are cursed to keep it.

This is the lesson taught by the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, which is a symbol of the Law.

Specifically, circumcision and dietary rules.

Supra.

Is that the faith you said "does nothing"?

Faith isn't doing something. It's accepting (going through the door) what Christ has done.

What I said stands.

The faith of the believer does plenty, including believing the One who opened the door.

Wrong.

Your attempts to dash my faith are futile.

Your faith is vain, because it is not solely in Christ and his completed work.

I know that pleasing God is exactly what God wants and has equipt us to accomplish.

Still conflating two different things.

A god that won't, is not a real God.

Off topic.
 

Hoping

Well-known member
There is no water in 1 Peter 3:21. In fact, Petere explicitly states that he is not talking about water baptism.

There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, - 1 Peter 3:21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Peter3:21&version=NKJV

It's "baptism through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."



You are attempting to add your good works to Christ's completed work on the cross.



To Israel.



To Israel.



To Israel.



No one is repudiating anything.

Only rightly dividing.



Whatever that means...



You should be more concerned about your own eternal destination.



A person's race is over when they get to heaven.



No, not "church." "House."

The House of God contains both the people of the New Covenant (AKA Israel) and those in the Body of Christ (Christians).

Peter is referring to "the time of Jacob's trouble" (AKA the Great Tribulation), which definitely comes before the Bema Seat of Christ.

Remember, the Twelve Apostles agreed to go to the circumcision, while Paul goes to the uncircumcision. There's a reason Israel is called Jacob.



Where did I ever say that I don't think I will be judged?

Because I never said that.



Saying it doesn't make it so.



Your water baptism had nothing to do with it.



Just listen to yourself boast in your own achievement!



You sound like B57 and his calvinistic nonsense.

Repentance is not a gift that God gives. It's not a gift, period.



To repent means "to turn away from (something)."

Repenting from sin is turning away from sin.

But it doesn't mean that you are now sinless. And you are clearly not.



What are you, Charismatic?

The only mentions of the "gift of the Holy Spirit" I can find in the Bible have nothing to do with the Body of Christ today, and the majority of those mentions are specifically dealing with Israel and her New Covenant relationship with God.



Yes He is.



Supra.



You can stop with the mock humility.



Is that supposed to mean something?

The New Covenant has not been available to anyone since Paul was converted on the road to Damascus.

People, like yourself, think they can put themselves under it, but they're only making it harder for themselves to understand what the Bible says.



Wrong.

The "new creation" refers to those who have placed their faith in Christ.



No, you're not.



Then you clearly don't know what the New Covenant is.



No.



That's ironic.



And you apparently also put your faith in your baptism as well. Or did I misread what you said earlier?



What, exactly, if anything, do you mean when you say, "the gift of the Holy Ghost"?



Apparently lying was one of the things you learned.



That much is obvious of you.



But not fully, otherwise you wouldn't rely so much on your water baptism and other things.



Again with the mock humility.



Missing the point



Missing the point.

And it's my analogy, not yours. The point is that you CANNOT climb the rope, therefore let go of the rope and let the one who DID climb the rope carry you.

You're still trying to climb the rope.



No, it doesn't.



You're conflating two different things and calling them the same.



Faith in and of itself does nothing.

It's simply letting God into your life.



Saying it doesn't make it so.



Wrong.

Paul was not speaking SPECIFICALLY of the Mosaic law, but used it to refer to ALL law, as a whole. ANY LAW that you place yourself under, you are cursed to keep it.

This is the lesson taught by the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, which is a symbol of the Law.



Supra.



Faith isn't doing something. It's accepting (going through the door) what Christ has done.

What I said stands.



Wrong.



Your faith is vain, because it is not solely in Christ and his completed work.



Still conflating two different things.



Off topic.
OK, thanks for your reply.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
When we misconstrue Faith/Believing to be that which is a condition performed by man in order to get God to save us, then we invalidate it being opposed to woks/law, and unwittingly make it a law. The principle of law works is this, when we deem it necessary to do something to gain the approval of God, and it not done, its to our eternal peril, that's the principle of law works at work in our mind, because the law work principle requires man to do something for eternal life, or Gods acceptance and approval, or favor. Moses wrote of the law principal Rom 10:5

5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

So it matters not what we make the condition to be, if the nonperformance of it be to our eternal peril, or the performing of it be to the gaining of Gods blessing and approval, we put ourselves under and confirm ourselves under law, and hence become obligated to keep the whole law for our final salvation, having forsaken the way of grace.
 

JudgeRightly

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When we misconstrue Faith/Believing to be that which is a condition performed by man in order to get God to save us,

Straw man.

God said He will save those who believe.

We're not "getting God to save us" by having faith. We're submitting to Him because He said to do so.

when we deem it necessary

What if GOD is the one who has deemed it necessary?

Can your position deal with that possibility?
 

Hoping

Well-known member
When we misconstrue Faith/Believing to be that which is a condition performed by man in order to get God to save us, then we invalidate it being opposed to woks/law, and unwittingly make it a law. The principle of law works is this, when we deem it necessary to do something to gain the approval of God, and it not done, its to our eternal peril, that's the principle of law works at work in our mind, because the law work principle requires man to do something for eternal life, or Gods acceptance and approval, or favor. Moses wrote of the law principal Rom 10:5

5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

So it matters not what we make the condition to be, if the nonperformance of it be to our eternal peril, or the performing of it be to the gaining of Gods blessing and approval, we put ourselves under and confirm ourselves under law, and hence become obligated to keep the whole law for our final salvation, having forsaken the way of grace.
So much for the day of God's judgement...eh?
If we don't manisfest our faith in God, we have no faith in God.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
The proper understanding of Faith not being a work condition that man performs in order to get God to save them, it is to understand that Faith to believe is all of grace, and not of us, and hence eliminates in grounds for boasting, as I believed and you didn't, and so, God saved me and not you because I believed in Christ, and you didn't.

Now everyone is familiar with Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

This passage clearly shows that Faith in the realm of Salvation isnt of us , its included, comprehended in Grace Salvation, a Gift of God.

Understand here Paul is saying comprehensively #1 Grace is a Gift, #2 Salvation is a Gift #3 Faith is a Gift, so where is boasting ? If all these phases are of Grace, where is room for boasting?

Notice Rom 3:27

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Now what is the Law of Faith that excludes works ? Its the Law of Grace. The scripture consistently shows this contrast Rom 11:6


And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

This is True because Faith is the product not of mans freewill, but of Grace Rom 4:16

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

It cant be any plainer that Faith here is the product of Grace,

The word by as in by grace in Vs 16 is kata and it means according to, so faith is according to Grace, so Grace is the principle of operation that produces Faith, hence the of Faith versus the law of works in Rom 3:27

So thats the way and only way that Faith is in contrast to works, when its understood to be the product of supernatural grace. So in that regards, there is no room for boasting, not even in our faith or believing in Jesus Christ. Remember even the believing is by grace Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through/because of grace:
 

marke

Well-known member
The proper understanding of Faith not being a work condition that man performs in order to get God to save them, it is to understand that Faith to believe is all of grace, and not of us, and hence eliminates in grounds for boasting, as I believed and you didn't, and so, God saved me and not you because I believed in Christ, and you didn't.

Now everyone is familiar with Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

This passage clearly shows that Faith in the realm of Salvation isnt of us , its included, comprehended in Grace Salvation, a Gift of God.

Understand here Paul is saying comprehensively #1 Grace is a Gift, #2 Salvation is a Gift #3 Faith is a Gift, so where is boasting ? If all these phases are of Grace, where is room for boasting?

Notice Rom 3:27

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Now what is the Law of Faith that excludes works ? Its the Law of Grace. The scripture consistently shows this contrast Rom 11:6


And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

This is True because Faith is the product not of mans freewill, but of Grace Rom 4:16

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

It cant be any plainer that Faith here is the product of Grace,

The word by as in by grace in Vs 16 is kata and it means according to, so faith is according to Grace, so Grace is the principle of operation that produces Faith, hence the of Faith versus the law of works in Rom 3:27

So thats the way and only way that Faith is in contrast to works, when its understood to be the product of supernatural grace. So in that regards, there is no room for boasting, not even in our faith or believing in Jesus Christ. Remember even the believing is by grace Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through/because of grace:
How does a sinner get faith, by asking for it? By reading the Bible in prayer? By doing good works? By becoming a Calvinist?

Habakkuk 2:4
Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

Matthew 8:10
When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

Matthew 9:2
And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.

Matthew 9:22
But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.

Matthew 9:29
Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.

Matthew 15:28
Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Mark 5:34
And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.

Mark 11:22
And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.

Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Luke 17:5
And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.

Luke 22:32
But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Acts 14:9
The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,

Acts 20:21
Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 1:17
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Romans 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Galatians 3:24
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

1 Thessalonians 5:8
But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

2 Thessalonians 1:3
We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;

1 Timothy 6:11
But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
 
The proper understanding of Faith not being a work condition that man performs in order to get God to save them, it is to understand that Faith to believe is all of grace, and not of us, and hence eliminates in grounds for boasting, as I believed and you didn't, and so, God saved me and not you because I believed in Christ, and you didn't.

Now everyone is familiar with Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

This passage clearly shows that Faith in the realm of Salvation isnt of us , its included, comprehended in Grace Salvation, a Gift of God.

Understand here Paul is saying comprehensively #1 Grace is a Gift, #2 Salvation is a Gift #3 Faith is a Gift, so where is boasting ? If all these phases are of Grace, where is room for boasting?

Notice Rom 3:27

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Now what is the Law of Faith that excludes works ? Its the Law of Grace. The scripture consistently shows this contrast Rom 11:6


And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

This is True because Faith is the product not of mans freewill, but of Grace Rom 4:16
Yea, you are right about the grace part; a man cannot be saved without being given grace.

Who is given grace?...

Hint:

Young's Literal Translation
Titus 2:11:
For the saving grace of God was manifested to all men,

Romans 5:18-21:
So, then, as through one offence to all men [it is] to condemnation, so also through one declaration of ‘Righteous’ [it is] to all men to justification of life; for as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall the many be constituted righteous. And law came in, that the offence might abound, and where the sin did abound, the grace did overabound, that even as the sin did reign in the death, so also the grace may reign, through righteousness, to life age-during, through Jesus Christ our Lord.

John 1:9:
He was the true Light, which doth enlighten every man, coming to the world;

So..., who is given grace????
Where did grace overabound?
 

Derf

Well-known member
Yea, you are right about the grace part; a man cannot be saved without being given grace.

Who is given grace?...

Hint:

Young's Literal Translation
Titus 2:11:
For the saving grace of God was manifested to all men,

Romans 5:18-21:
So, then, as through one offence to all men [it is] to condemnation, so also through one declaration of ‘Righteous’ [it is] to all men to justification of life; for as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall the many be constituted righteous. And law came in, that the offence might abound, and where the sin did abound, the grace did overabound, that even as the sin did reign in the death, so also the grace may reign, through righteousness, to life age-during, through Jesus Christ our Lord.

John 1:9:
He was the true Light, which doth enlighten every man, coming to the world;

So..., who is given grace????
Where did grace overabound?
Uh...I think it was to the people who didn't need it.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
yourpoint

Who is given grace?...

Thats already been established. Them who believe because of Grace Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
 

JudgeRightly

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yourpoint



Thats already been established. Them who believe because of Grace Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

So they're given grace after they've been given grace?
 
yourpoint



Thats already been established. Them who believe because of Grace Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
So, grace is only given to, "Them who believe because of Grace"?

Are you trying to say that sin didn't abound anywhere except in "Them who believe because of Grace"?

Or maybe you don't believe this:
where the sin did abound, the grace did overabound
Do you believe
Young's Literal Translation
Titus 2:11:
For the saving grace of God was manifested to all men,

Romans 5:18-21:
So, then, as through one offence to all men [it is] to condemnation, so also through one declaration of ‘Righteous’ [it is] to all men to justification of life; for as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall the many be constituted righteous. And law came in, that the offence might abound, and where the sin did abound, the grace did overabound, that even as the sin did reign in the death, so also the grace may reign, through righteousness, to life age-during, through Jesus Christ our Lord.

John 1:9:
He was the true Light, which doth enlighten every man, coming to the world;

Where did sin abound?
Where did sin "reign in the death"; only in "Them who believe because of Grace"?
 

Hoping

Well-known member
If the writer of the OP is correct, and God did force me to be obedient to Him, ie. "believe", I am glad.
I hope He will force all the people I pray for everyday to be converted, to believe, too.
The idea of Him making me to believe, but not the loved ones in my life, seems rather cruel to me.

The writer of the OP is wrong of course, as I had to choose the path I walk: not God.
I also have to choose every day to stay on this path.
Or does God force me to do that too?
I wonder why the devil doesn't quit trying to get me to walk in the darkness, on the wide path?
 

beloved57

Well-known member
So, grace is only given to, "Them who believe because of Grace"?

Are you trying to say that sin didn't abound anywhere except in "Them who believe because of Grace"?

Or maybe you don't believe this:

Do you believe
Young's Literal Translation
Titus 2:11:
For the saving grace of God was manifested to all men,

Romans 5:18-21:
So, then, as through one offence to all men [it is] to condemnation, so also through one declaration of ‘Righteous’ [it is] to all men to justification of life; for as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall the many be constituted righteous. And law came in, that the offence might abound, and where the sin did abound, the grace did overabound, that even as the sin did reign in the death, so also the grace may reign, through righteousness, to life age-during, through Jesus Christ our Lord.

John 1:9:
He was the true Light, which doth enlighten every man, coming to the world;

Where did sin abound?
Where did sin "reign in the death"; only in "Them who believe because of Grace"?
Dont understand your point. People who believe in Jesus believe because of grace, grace is the source of their believing Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

The word through is the prep dia and means:


    1. of means
      1. by
      2. by the means of
  1. through
    1. the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
      1. by reason of
      2. on account of
      3. because of for this reason
      4. therefore
      5. on this account

So Grace gets the credit for ones believing in Jesus Christ. Its all of grace ! So therefore, works of any kind coming from us is excluded.
 

marke

Well-known member
Dont understand your point. People who believe in Jesus believe because of grace, grace is the source of their believing Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

The word through is the prep dia and means:


    1. of means
      1. by
      2. by the means of
  1. through
    1. the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
      1. by reason of
      2. on account of
      3. because of for this reason
      4. therefore
      5. on this account

So Grace gets the credit for ones believing in Jesus Christ. Its all of grace ! So therefore, works of any kind coming from us is excluded.

God is a God of love and compassion, not a hard-hearted despiser of humans for being born in sin.

Psalm 145:8
The Lord is gracious, and full of compassion; slow to anger, and of great mercy.

He does not seek pleasure in condemning souls to hell.

Ezekiel 33:11
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

It is God's desire that no sinner would rebel against His will and die.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

The Bible does not teach that God is willing that many would perish, even though many will rebel against His will and will perish for that rebellion.

Matthew 7:13
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Believing is a work because its something we do Rom 10:9

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Believe here is in the active voice which:

Represents the subject as the doer or performer of the action. e.g., in the sentence, "Jesus returned to Capernaum" Jesus performs the action.

Again a work by definition, the greek word ergon:

  1. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
  2. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

Also To believe is a work of mental ability of the mind and ; the understanding, and the will, conscience and affections. Paul wrote of receiving the Love of the Truth 2 Thess 2:10

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

So If I say Im saved because I believed, God saved me because I performed that action, thats Salvation by my works, even if we count it as a work of righteousness, what does Titus 3:5 say

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
 
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