Is believing/faith a work ?

blackbirdking

New member
blackbird

That should be a reasonable conclusion, for many people believe they are saved because they believed. Thats saying you are saved because of your work. Thats not scriptural

I think we agree that the reasonable, scriptural conclusion is that salvation is not by works, and therefore it's not scriptural for a man to say he is saved because of his work and it is scriptural then, that a man is saved by something other than work.

Is it reasonable to say then, that a man is saved without the work that, in your OP, is believing/faith?
 

beloved57

Well-known member
I think we agree that the reasonable, scriptural conclusion is that salvation is not by works, and therefore it's not scriptural for a man to say he is saved because of his work and it is scriptural then, that a man is saved by something other than work.

Is it reasonable to say then, that a man is saved without the work that, in your OP, is believing/faith?
Yes thats reasonable

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bcbsr

New member
Faith is not a work. It's an attitude. Paul clearly classifies faith as not being a work in Romans 4

"Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works." Rom 4:4-6
 

blackbirdking

New member
Faith is not a work. It's an attitude. Paul clearly classifies faith as not being a work in Romans 4

"Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works." Rom 4:4-6


Would you explain how one begins to have this "attitude"?
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Faith is not a mere human attitude, but rather a Divine attribute; gifted to elect sons of God so that they may be justified . . through the Person, name, works and merits of Jesus Christ alone.

This gift from God, is Godly power (cause) that (effectually) produces belief, obedience, and ultimate salvation in and for all souls for whom it was designated and promised.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Faith is not a work. It's an attitude. Paul clearly classifies faith as not being a work in Romans 4

"Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works." Rom 4:4-6
Paul never said beliving isn't a work.

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George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
Would you explain how one begins to have this "attitude"?

I once had a conversation with someone that went something like this:

Me: You cannot believe because you do not have faith. You do not have faith because you will not ask for it. Ask Him and he will give you faith so that you will have the capacity to believe.

The next day the answer from this person was; "Well, I sincerely prayed to God to give me faith but it didn't work; I still don't believe."

I said, "It did work. You had it even as you asked. You cannot ask God for something if you are completely convinced of His non-existence. Where did your belief come from that someone might listen to your prayer? That is faith in seed form. You did receive what you asked for. Plant it, water it, give it light, feed it, keep the weeds away and soon it will pop out of the soil for you to see."

Today that person is a strong Christian.
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
Paul never said beliving isn't a work.

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"believes" is contradictory to "work" in this verse, Rom 4:5

Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
 

beloved57

Well-known member



"believes" is contradictory to "work" in this verse, Rom 4:5

Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
Nowhere does that passage say believing isn't a work.

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Right Divider

Body part
Nowhere does that passage say believing isn't a work.
Of course it does. You just don't want to believe it.

Rom 4:5 KJV But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Paul is very clearly contrasting these two things.

That's what happens when you try to force the Bible to support your false view.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Of course it does. You just don't want to believe it.

Rom 4:5 KJV But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Paul is very clearly contrasting these two things.

That's what happens when you try to force the Bible to support your false view.
I agree there's a contrast however it doesn't say believing isn't a work.

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way 2 go

Well-known member
Nowhere does that passage say believing isn't a work.

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"believes" is contradictory to "work" in this verse, Rom 4:5

do you understand this verse ?

Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

it does not say

the one who does not work but works

so your belief isn't true , you just have a refuted claim that you parrot .
:carryon:
 

beloved57

Well-known member
"believes" is contradictory to "work" in this verse, Rom 4:5

do you understand this verse ?

Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

it does not say

the one who does not work but works

so your belief isn't true , you just have a refuted claim that you parrot .
:carryon:


Again you have failed to show with that passage or any other for that matter that believing isnt a work. In fact its a action verb ! Do you know what a action is ?
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
Again you have failed to show with that passage or any other for that matter that believing isnt a work. In fact its a action verb ! Do you know what a action is ?


believes in this verse is a noun, faith pisteuō

which is why "believes" is contradictory to "work" in this verse, Rom 4:5

Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
 

bcbsr

New member
Would you explain how one begins to have this "attitude"?

I would say it's a matter of trust. What is one trusting in to be saved or to be qualified to be saved? If salvation is contingent upon one's performance, then it is one's performance that one is trusting in to be saved. Trusting in Christ means that you have to abandon trusting in things that you do to save you, including religious rituals, good works, not sinning and so forth.

Those who have come to trust is Christ have likewise abandoned fears regarding one's salvation status, because they trust in Christ to take care of it. Everyone who does not believe in eternal security is in some way not trusting in Christ to save them.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
And then faith is a noun again, which is what is counted as righteousness. Faith is the thing that does the believING, so faith is not a work (and believING is the work OF faith, not of man apart from faith as that which does the faithING).
Believe in Rom 4:5 is a verb, a action.

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beloved57

Well-known member
I would say it's a matter of trust. What is one trusting in to be saved or to be qualified to be saved? If salvation is contingent upon one's performance, then it is one's performance that one is trusting in to be saved. Trusting in Christ means that you have to abandon trusting in things that you do to save you, including religious rituals, good works, not sinning and so forth.

Those who have come to trust is Christ have likewise abandoned fears regarding one's salvation status, because they trust in Christ to take care of it. Everyone who does not believe in eternal security is in some way not trusting in Christ to save them.
Is believe in Rom 4:5 something someone does?

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