Has the Church Replaced Israel ?

beloved57

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The Church is revealed to be Israel in that many of the promises of God to Israel under the OTC are fulfilled with the Church in the NTC for instance, God said to the nation Ex 19:5

5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

Notice, they shall be a peculiar treasure unto God,

Now this has been fulfilled by God unto the Church for example, writing to Titus Paul writes Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Now the word peculiar in Ex 19:5 is sᵊḡullâ:

  1. possession, property
    1. valued property, peculiar treasure
    2. treasure

The word peculiar in Titus 2:14 is periousios:

  1. that which is one's own, belonging to one's possessions
    1. a people selected by God from the other nations for his own possession

Now does God have two special peculiar people ? No, that defeats the purpose of being pecuilar and seperated from others for ones special possession.

But since Christ has kept gods covenant for a People, and redeemed them with His Blood, the promise to Israel in Ex 19:5 is fulfilled by and through Christ unto the Church, for as it is written 2 Cor 1:20

20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.


All the promises of God, to include the one made in Ex 19:5 are confirmed and fulfilled by and in Him Christ the Covenant of the People who kept the covenant Isa 42:6

I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

See Gentiles were included in that covenant !
 

JudgeRightly

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Put it to the test.

That's what I've been doing.

Our opinions differ.

The difference is mine isn't an opinion. It's fact.

You are right.

Thank you for conceding the discussion.

But if you turn from sin you don't go back to it.

No.

Humans aren't capable of fully turning from sin, not in this life.

We still have to deal with our flesh, which is constantly pulling us away from Christ. Add to that the temptations of demons, and there's no hope, save for Christ.

That's the very reason Christ came to die on the cross, because He knew WE CAN'T.

That's why He imputed his righteousness to our account (Romans 4:11).

It's not OUR righteousness, it's not OUR turning from sin. It's CHRIST who was righteous. All WE do is put our faith in HIM.

I want you to do a search, Hoping, for any verse where Paul says to turn from sin or wickedness or evil, etc.

Because I did a search just now, and I don't find ANYWHERE in scripture, where Paul says to turn from sin.

He tells men to repent, but that just means a change of mind, and it doesn't necessarily mean to repent from sinning.

If one does go back, it wasn't a repentance from sin.

You aren't capable of making that decision, Hoping. You don't have the ability to know men's hearts, and claiming such would just be confirmation bias.

He was as you put it "glad" because the Corinthians were separating themselves along the lines of who had baptized them with water.
"Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name." (1 Cor 1:15)
That is the reason Paul gave.

The reason he gave makes no difference. The fact that he did NOT baptize any save a few means that baptism isn't required.

The gospel of grace has been in force since

Acts 9.

Gen 6:8..."But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord."

No, that's not the gospel of grace.

The word there also means favor. It just means that Noah was an exceptional human being at the time. Why? Read verse 9. "Perfect in his generations" refers to the fact that his DNA had not been corrupted by what was described in verses 1-4.

You are telling me what some men have told you to think.

I'm telling you what the Bible says.

Quite frankly, so am I.

Duh.

So, do those who teach you still commit sin?

Not anymore he doesn't. But that's just because he's in heaven.

My pastor and teachers, . . . don't...

Bearing false witness is a sin, Hoping. Stop bearing false witness against your neighbor.

by the power of the Holy Ghost, . . . thanks be to God, in the name of Jesus Christ!

Blasphemy is also a sin, Hoping. Stop committing blasphemy against God by claiming He does something that He does not.
 

Hoping

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That's what I've been doing.
Trying to do, but you work from a false premise.
The difference is mine isn't an opinion. It's fact.
That is your opinion.
Thank you for conceding the discussion.
Don't start lying.
What I conceded was ..."Changing one's mind does not make one incapable of sinning."
Don't stray from the truth.
No.
Humans aren't capable of fully turning from sin, not in this life.
We differ in out opinions.
Why would they be 25% capable but not 100% capable?
Besides the first act after turning from sin is becoming a new person at our "being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life". (Rom 6:4)
The reborn are capable of serving one Lord.
We still have to deal with our flesh, which is constantly pulling us away from Christ. Add to that the temptations of demons, and there's no hope, save for Christ.
The only reason YOU have to struggle with the flesh is because someone told you baptism is not necessary.
It is, for the very reason you cite.
It is written..."Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." (Rom 6:3-6)
The old man can be killed and buried with Christ, so it has no power any more.
It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
It is true.
That's the very reason Christ came to die on the cross, because He knew WE CAN'T.
That's why He imputed his righteousness to our account (Romans 4:11).
It's not OUR righteousness, it's not OUR turning from sin. It's CHRIST who was righteous. All WE do is put our faith in HIM.
Since His death and burial and resurrection we CAN live without sin, because now we are in Him and He is in us.
We are no longer of Adam's seed, but of God's seed.
I want you to do a search, Hoping, for any verse where Paul says to turn from sin or wickedness or evil, etc.
Because I did a search just now, and I don't find ANYWHERE in scripture, where Paul says to turn from sin.
He tells men to repent, but that just means a change of mind, and it doesn't necessarily mean to repent from sinning.
Col 3:5-10 does pretty good job of telling us to turn from sin.
It is written..." Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:"

The reason he doesn't tell men to turn from sin is because all his letters are to men who already turned form sin.
In some of the letters he chastises those who have failed to turn from sin.
If sin was inevitable, what is the point of being angry with those who departed from the faith?
The adulterer in 1 Cor, Hymenaeus, Philetus, Alexander, and Demas and others could have just kept rubbing shoulders with the other men who continued to walk after the flesh in the guise of Christianity.
Your assertion that we cannot serve God alone is counter-productive, to say the least.
You aren't capable of making that decision, Hoping. You don't have the ability to know men's hearts, and claiming such would just be confirmation bias
If one turns from sin, but sins again, the repentance was false.
Not much to figure out there.
The reason he gave makes no difference. The fact that he did NOT baptize any save a few means that baptism isn't required.
At least you recognize his reason as fact.
He could have said 'baptism is no longer necessary because someone said so."
Why didn't he say that?
Because it is still necessary, for remission of sin, killing the old man, being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life/regeneration, and to fulfil the OT "picture" of circumcision.
Acts 9.
No, that's not the gospel of grace.
I'ld see receiving grace from God at any time "good news".
You have just turned it into a doctrine that cuts off all that Jesus taught...like Matt 28:19..."Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
Your doctrine countermands Christ.
The word there also means favor. It just means that Noah was an exceptional human being at the time. Why? Read verse 9. "Perfect in his generations" refers to the fact that his DNA had not been corrupted by what was described in verses 1-4.
Why do you think that would in any way deter me from seeing the grace of God being given to men as far back as Noah?
Since when did "grace" not mean favor?
I'm telling you what the Bible says.
You are telling me what some man has told you he thinks is in the bible.
At least you concede the point.
Not anymore he doesn't. But that's just because he's in heaven.
New topic that I won't partake in...thanks.
Bearing false witness is a sin, Hoping. Stop bearing false witness against your neighbor.
It isn't false witness, as my pastor, brethren, and sisters, don't commit sin.
Blasphemy is also a sin, Hoping. Stop committing blasphemy against God by claiming He does something that He does not.
Jesus died to take away our sins.
There is no reason to return to those sins.
If living in accordance to God is blasphemy to you, what exactly does God ordain that YOU do?
 

Bright Raven

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And who believes the Church has replaced Israel? If you do, prove it with Scripture.
 

Hoping

Well-known member
And who believes the Church has replaced Israel? If you do, prove it with Scripture.
I would need the definition of "Israel".
Is it a nation? A people?, The set apart people of God? A religion?
If anything, the unbelieving Israelites separated themselves from the believing Israelites and we Gentile faithful were grafted on to the faithful "Branch".
All the faithful are one Body, regardless of national origin.
If anything, the definition of "Israel" has been appended.
 

JudgeRightly

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Trying to do, but you work from a false premise.

False.

That is your opinion.

False.

Don't start lying.

I'm not.

What I conceded was ..."Changing one's mind does not make one incapable of sinning."
Don't stray from the truth.

Again, repenting means to change one's mind. That's the entire point. Changing one's mind, repenting, does not make one incapable of sinning.

We differ in out opinions.

That wasn't an opinion.

Why would they be 25% capable but not 100% capable?

Not what I said.

Besides the first act after turning from sin is becoming a new person at our "being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life". (Rom 6:4)

Becoming a new creature doesn't mean we won't stumble.

The reborn are capable of serving one Lord.

Reborn is a term that has meaning for Israel, not for the Body of Christ. The church today has misappropriated it and "born again" to mean "saved." But that's not what it means.

The only reason YOU have to struggle with the flesh is because

Is because I have not received my promised glorified body yet, and as far as I'm aware, neither have you.

someone told you baptism is not necessary.

Yeah, his name is Paul. Maybe you've heard of him.

It is, for the very reason you cite.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

It is written..."Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." (Rom 6:3-6)

AMEN!

The old man can be killed and buried with Christ, so it has no power any more.

Yeah, and?

It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)

AMEN!

It is true.

Since His death and burial and resurrection we CAN live without sin, because now we are in Him and He is in us.

Doesn't mean we will, due to the flesh, which we still have to live with until either we die or Christ returns, whichever comes first.

We are no longer of Adam's seed, but of God's seed.

Yeah, and?

Col 3:5-10 does pretty good job of telling us to turn from sin.

Telling Christians to turn from sin... Hmmmm.

Or do you assert that the people in Colossi Paul wrote to were not Christians because they were still capable of sinning.

It is written..." Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:"

AMEN!

The reason he doesn't tell men to turn from sin is because all his letters are to men who already turned from sin.

Nice job contradicting yourself, Hoping.

You literally just said:

Col 3:5-10 does a pretty good job of telling us to turn from sin.

Do Christians have to turn from sin? Or did Paul write to Christians who are incapable of sinning?

Why would it make any sense for Paul to tell believers to turn from something they are incapable of doing in the first place?

It makes no sense at all.

In some of the letters he chastises those who have failed to turn from sin.

Again, Christians. He's writing to the churches he founded. Churches full of believers who were new to being Christians.

If sin was inevitable, what is the point of being angry with those who departed from the faith?

Who says they departed from the faith? He's angry with them because they, being believers, are sinning, and blatantly so!

The adulterer in 1 Cor, Hymenaeus, Philetus, Alexander, and Demas and others could have just kept rubbing shoulders with the other men who continued to walk after the flesh in the guise of Christianity.

Paul wasn't talking to unbelievers! This is the problem with your position, not mine. Paul is rightfully angry that Christians who are committing such terrible sins are still being treated like nothing is wrong.

Your assertion that we cannot serve God alone is counter-productive, to say the least.

I never said we couldn't. What I'm saying is that we, despite being saved, are NOT PERFECT, NOR WILL WE BE until we are given our glorified bodies.

If one turns from sin, but sins again, the repentance was false.

Again:You are incapable of determining if a person's repentance was disingenuous or false. You simply don't have the ability.

Not much to figure out there.

Agreed, it's easy to figure out that you have no idea what you're talking about.

At least you recognize his reason as fact.

Don't misrepresent what I said, Hoping. It's dishonest.

He could have said 'baptism is no longer necessary because someone said so."

Sure. But He chose not to.

Why didn't he say that?

Because it's not needed.

"I'm glad I baptised none of you, save [these other people]" should be clear enough that baptism isn't necessary to get saved.

Because it is still necessary, for remission of sin,

We've been over this already.

"Remission" doesn't mean "elimination." It means "recession" or "diminishing of,"

When cancer goes into remission, it hasn't disappeared from one's body, it's still present, but it's in a controlled state, and it can still become a problem if left unchecked.

Also, Paul never states that we Christians will have remission of sins, because we are not Israel. "Remission of sins" is a term used by Christ directed at Israel alone, because the treatment for sin is the law, and Israel is known as the people of the law.

killing the old man,

Happens when we are saved, not when we are baptized in water.

being raised with Christ

Supra.

to walk in newness of life/regeneration,

Supra.

and to fulfil the OT "picture" of circumcision.

Circumcision has to do with Israel, not the Body of Christ, because it is PURELY symbolic of what the law is.

I'd see receiving grace from God at any time "good news".

Good for you.

You have just turned it into a doctrine that cuts off all that Jesus taught...

Jesus taught the law. Paul taught grace.

The two don't mix. When you mix law and grace, you end up with law. The only way grace can remain grace is if you keep the law out of it. (Romans 11:6)

like Matt 28:19..."Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,

First off, have you never noticed who Jesus was speaking to?

He was speaking directly to His eleven disciples (Judas had already committed suicide and Matthias hadn't been chosen yet to replace him).

Guess what?

His disciples, other than a few trips here and there, that are NOT recorded in the Bible (and for good reason), the apostles, for the most part, stayed in Jerusalem.

In fact, if you were to look at what the Bible says about the twelve after Christ's ascension, and do a survey of where the men were recorded in the Bible, their locations, I bet that you would find that the Bible never says anything about them being anywhere other than Jerusalem, except for maybe one or two instances. Yes, yes, I know, we know that they took trips elsewhere, but the point I'm making is that the Bible intentionally doesn't record those trips, because the focus had shifted away from Israel and their covenant of laws, and onto Paul and his ministry of grace.

baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

Keep reading:

"Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you"!

Jesus taught the law! He didn't teach grace. He didn't teach "crucify the old man, and put on the new." He taught "keep my commandments" and to do things "for My sake" and "My yoke is easy and My burden is light" and "you are My friends if you do whatever I command you."

That's not grace at all. That's law.

Your doctrine countermands Christ.

It countermands what Christ taught Israel. But that's ok, because the Body of Christ is not Israel. The Body of Christ is a new creation, under a different set of rules, given TO PAUL FROM CHRIST!

Why do you think that would in any way deter me from seeing the grace of God being given to men as far back as Noah?
Since when did "grace" not mean favor?

Take a step back.

Why do you think that I am denying that God was always gracious?

The entire reason the Mosaic Law worked in the first place was BECAUSE IT WAS UNDERGIRDED BY GRACE! God understood CLEARLY that men, much less the spiritual disaster of a nation that was Israel, COULD NOT keep the law perfectly, and so included in it ways to get right with Him.

You are telling me what some man has told you he thinks is in the bible.

Just because I learned something from men doesn't make it their opinions. If that were so, then you are guilty of the same, and that would make you a hypocrite.

I am telling you what the Bible says. I know what the Bible says because I had a good teacher.

At least you concede the point.

I didn't.

New topic that I won't partake in...thanks.

It's not.

It isn't false witness, as my pastor, brethren, and sisters, don't commit sin.

Liar.

And if they're the ones telling you they don't, then they're lying too, and you're a fool for believing them.

And it doesn't matter anyways, because violating ONE of God's laws makes you a sinner, and it is only by God's grace (not baptism, not keeping the law, not being righteous) that we can be saved!

And no, "saved" doesn't mean "incapable of sinning." It means our final destination has been guaranteed by none other than God Himself!

Jesus died to take away our sins.

Nope, that's wrong.

Romans 11:27, Paul is referring to Isaiah 27:9 and Jeremiah 31:34 (which is where God is speaking SPECIFICALLY about Israel and forming a New Covenant with ISRAEL. Read:

"For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins."

Whose sins?

Israel's.

And this is the ONLY time Paul uses the phrase "taking away sins." The other three passages it's used in are twice in Hebrews, and once in 1 John.

There is no reason to return to those sins.

Sure. Doesn't mean we won't succumb to the desires of the flesh or the temptations of demons.

If living in accordance to God is blasphemy to you,

Don't put words in my mouth. That's not what I said.

what exactly does God ordain that YOU do?

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT I AND OTHER HAVE BEEN TRYING TO MAKE TO YOU, HOPING!

YOU CANNOT LIVE THE CHRISTIAN LIFE!
 

Hoping

Well-known member
In answer to Hoping's..."what exactly does God ordain that YOU do?"...
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT I AND OTHER HAVE BEEN TRYING TO MAKE TO YOU, HOPING!
YOU CANNOT LIVE THE CHRISTIAN LIFE!
We have different Gods.
Mine said..."He who endures till the end shall be saved." (Matt 10:22)
James follows it up with..."Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." (James 1:12)
Paul adds..."Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Cor 6:9-10)
That is far from nothing.
 

JudgeRightly

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We have different Gods.

Mine is the God of the Bible. Who is your god?

Mine said..."He who endures till the end shall be saved." (Matt 10:22)

And five chapters later He said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Enduring to the end is in context of keeping the law.

Paul, on the other hand says if you keep the law, you're cursed.

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.”Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree” ),that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. - Galatians 3:10-14 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians3:10-14&version=NKJV

So why then did Jesus teach to keep the law?

Because He was speaking to Israel, the people of the law, to continue doing that was part of their culture, their entire history as a nation. That's all they as a nation understood.

James follows it up with..."Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." (James 1:12)

Guess what he said at the very beginning of that chapter.

James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad: Greetings. - James 1:1 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James1:1&version=NKJV

Again, James was speaking to JEWS, specifcally the Diaspora. NOT the Body of Christ.

Paul adds..."Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Cor 6:9-10)

He also says:

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. - Romans 8:1-11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans8:1-11&version=NKJV

"There is therefore now no condemnation..."

Not "There is therefore now no sin in you..."

That is far from nothing.

You insist on making it about what MAN can do, instead of simply accepting what it is that CHRIST has done.

I have to do NOTHING, why?

Because I CAN'T do anything. That's why I needed Christ in the first place!

I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. - Galatians 2:20 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians2:20&version=NKJV

I live by faith, not by being righteous.

Paul condemned (for lack of a better term) Israel for trying to live by being righteous (through works), instead of trying to attain righteousness by faith.

What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith;but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness.Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.As it is written: “Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense, And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” - Romans 9:30-33 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans9:30-33&version=NKJV

Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved.For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.”But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down from above )or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach):that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” - Romans 10:1-13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans10:1-13&version=NKJV
 

Idolater

"Lahey, I live in a tent!"
We have different Gods.
Mine said..."He who endures till the end shall be saved." (Matt 10:22)
James follows it up with..."Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." (James 1:12)
Paul adds..."Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Cor 6:9-10)
That is far from nothing.
My Master (I am His slave) says, "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."
 

Hoping

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Mine is the God of the Bible. Who is your god?



And five chapters later He said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Enduring to the end is in context of keeping the law.

Paul, on the other hand says if you keep the law, you're cursed.

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.”Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree” ),that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. - Galatians 3:10-14 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians3:10-14&version=NKJV

So why then did Jesus teach to keep the law?

Because He was speaking to Israel, the people of the law, to continue doing that was part of their culture, their entire history as a nation. That's all they as a nation understood.



Guess what he said at the very beginning of that chapter.

James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad: Greetings. - James 1:1 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James1:1&version=NKJV

Again, James was speaking to JEWS, specifcally the Diaspora. NOT the Body of Christ.



He also says:

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. - Romans 8:1-11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans8:1-11&version=NKJV

"There is therefore now no condemnation..."

Not "There is therefore now no sin in you..."



You insist on making it about what MAN can do, instead of simply accepting what it is that CHRIST has done.

I have to do NOTHING, why?

Because I CAN'T do anything. That's why I needed Christ in the first place!

I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. - Galatians 2:20 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians2:20&version=NKJV

I live by faith, not by being righteous.

Paul condemned (for lack of a better term) Israel for trying to live by being righteous (through works), instead of trying to attain righteousness by faith.

What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith;but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness.Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.As it is written: “Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense, And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” - Romans 9:30-33 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans9:30-33&version=NKJV

Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved.For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.”But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down from above )or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach):that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” - Romans 10:1-13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans10:1-13&version=NKJV
Our opinions differ.
 

Hoping

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My Master (I am His slave) says, "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."
Some would say that is only addressed to the Jews.
Erroneously, of course.
 

JudgeRightly

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Our opinions differ.

What I said above isn't a matter of opinion. It's a matter of what the Bible ACTUALLY SAYS!

My opinions (not what I posted above), are based on what it actually says. What are yours based on, but your a priori beliefs that Christians cannot sin.
 

JudgeRightly

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My Master (I am His slave) says, "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

Notice how that was spoken by Jesus to the Jews just a few chapters before He said to the Gentile woman "I have not come except for the lost sheep of the House of Israel."
 

Idolater

"Lahey, I live in a tent!"
Notice how that was spoken by Jesus to the Jews just a few chapters before He said to the Gentile woman "I have not come except for the lost sheep of the House of Israel."
Yes we completely differ in our Biblical interpretations. We don't have to hash it all out since neither of us is going to budge. :)
 

Hoping

Well-known member
What I said above isn't a matter of opinion. It's a matter of what the Bible ACTUALLY SAYS!

My opinions (not what I posted above), are based on what it actually says. What are yours based on, but your a priori beliefs that Christians cannot sin.
Interpretations of scripture often don't agree.
It is the fruit of the interpretation that illuminates its source.
 

Hoping

Well-known member
Because it was.



Saying it doesn't make it so.
I am so glad I got grafted into the Branch known as Jesus when I was baptized into Him and into His death and burial. (Rom 6:3)
And raised with Him to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4)
The result is written of in Rom 6:7.
Thanks be to God.
 
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