ECT Gifts of the Spirit

[graceandpeace]

_________________

1 cor 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

You are not God and you do not have the right to judge a 'heart'..of a man."-GP

Who is he talking to here, GP? Saints-"brethren"(1 Cor 4:6)-those already saved.. The topic is not judging as pertaining to salvation, but the topic is stewardship, ministry, and being faithful to it, and rewards.. And the context surrounding this chapter? -Paul was being questioned about the credibility of his apostleship, and his teaching-1 Cor. 4:3,4.

And verse 5 is talking about the judgment seat of Christ, which Paul alluded to elsewhere, the "reward ceremonies" for those saved-the emphasis in this passage is upon the rewards to be given out-who will receive such awards, and why. 1 Cor. 4 has NADA to do with judgment as to salvation.

1 Cor. 4:
1Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.

2Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

3But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.

4For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

5Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

6And these things, brethren,..."

read it again..(the yellow) shows what He will reveal....The hearts of men...at His coming; which cannot be revealed fully now. Salvation is not obtained by your silly head knowledge baloney..it is a FREE gift. Stop making it less than the FREE gift it is.

I will believe it as written. YOU cannot know the councils of the hearts....you should read job...God makes it plain in that book that those whom think they know things that only God can know; are boasters of the flesh.

You are not God. You do not know if one has truly submitted their heart to Him...so, go ahead and try to change it; those whom can read know what it says.

 

[graceandpeace]

Romans 11:11. During this dispensation of grace, we are saved regardless of whether or not we bless Israel. We are saved instead through their fall, to drive them to jealousy.

We are fellowheirs with them...(Israel)

Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

So, you are wrongly reading it; for it is ONLY those whom were cut off that we are to bring to jealousy...God never cut off the whole nation, silly.

Until you rightly divide the word of God you are never going to understand the TRUE mystery.

You madists make me giggle.

 

[graceandpeace]

Perhaps he plagiarized to write the other forum stuff. I see no evidence that he could put together a cogent post without stealing from another source. There are MAD websites he could easily cut and paste from.

Innocent until proven guilty though (I thought someone did bust him in the past, but I cannot remember for sure).

I agree...

 

[john w]

Still no scripture that shows you could be justified OUTside of the new covenant given to the jew first; Jesus blood covenant.

_
Nice bait n switch, as usual.


Still no scripture asserting that there has always been just one "the" gospel/good news in scripture. You made that up.

Your standard one liner, kid. Does not work with me. Scripture that states the gospel of the kingdom=1 Cor. 15:1-4. Scripture that states that there has always been just one "the" temple, just one "the" church, just one "the" earth, just one "the" baptism, and just one "the" gospel...............?

Punt by you, as usual.

You made that up, thief, robber of the covenants God gave to the nation Israel.

 

[john w]

read it again..(the yellow) shows what He will reveal....The hearts of men...at His coming; which cannot be revealed fully now. Salvation is not obtained by your silly head knowledge baloney..it is a FREE gift. Stop making it less than the FREE gift it is.

I will believe it as written. YOU cannot know the councils of the hearts....you should read job...God makes it plain in that book that those whom think they know things that only God can know; are boasters of the flesh.

You are not God. You do not know if one has truly submitted their heart to Him...so, go ahead and try to change it; those whom can read know what it says.

More assert, pound the podium, mutterings, grumblings, return to "This is what my SOF/gospel tracts say" echo chamber. You made it up. Scripture commands that you judge as to salvation. You reject it-no spine. GPo not judge those who poison others with bad mushrooms as killers.

Lovely, GP.

 

[graceandpeace]

_
Nice bait n switch, as usual.


Still no scripture asserting that there has always been just one "the" gospel/good news in scripture. You made that up.

Your standard one liner, kid. Does not work with me. Scripture that states the gospel of the kingdom=1 Cor. 15:1-4. Scripture that states that there has always been just one "the" temple, just one "the" church, just one "the" earth, just one "the" baptism, and just one "the" gospel...............?

Punt by you, as usual.

You made that up, thief, robber of the covenants God gave to the nation Israel.

:box:you were knocked out long ago....the only thing you have left is windbag sucker punches.

It is a good thing that most people that read this forum are not suckers.:chuckle:

 

[graceandpeace]

More assert, pound the podium, mutterings, grumblings, return to "This is what my SOF/gospel tracts say" echo chamber. You made it up. Scripture commands that you judge as to salvation. You reject it-no spine. GPo not judge those who poison others with bad mushrooms as killers.

Lovely, GP.

yes; those whom are not in Christ are to be judged as heretics...the one thing they must reject to be in this group is the blood that bought them; for they are enemies of the cross of Christ.

Those whom accept His blood sacrifice are not in that category Mr. :comeout:mouth.

No matter how you would like to put them there.

 

[godrulz]

http://www.hymnlyrics.org/lyricsw/what_can_wash_away_my_sin.html What can wash away my sin? Nothing but the blood of Jesus (received by grace through faith apart from works Titus 3:5; Eph. 2:8-9)!

Heb. 9:22; Jn. 14:6; Jn. 3:16; Acts 4:12; Rom. 1:16

 

[graceandpeace]

Trying to get this thread back on topic:

Rom 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:


Rom 12:5 So we, [being] many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.


Rom 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, [let us prophesy] according to the proportion of faith;


Rom 12:7 Or ministry, [let us wait] on [our] ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;

Rom 12:8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, [let him do it] with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.

with the correlating scripture verses:
Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.


1Cr 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.


1Cr 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

1Cr 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.


1Cr 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

1Cr 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

1Cr 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:


1Cr 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.


1Cr 12:12 ¶ For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ.


1Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

1Cr 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.

but, as for tongues....it only edifies the person; unless there is interpretation:


1 Cr 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual [gifts], but rather that ye may prophesy.


1Cr 14:2 For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.


1Cr 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men [to] edification, and exhortation, and comfort.


1Cr 14:4 He that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.


1Cr 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.


1Cr 14:6 ¶ Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?


1Cr 14:7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?


1Cr 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?


1Cr 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.


1Cr 14:10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them [is] without signification.


1Cr 14:11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh [shall be] a barbarian unto me.


1Cr 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual [gifts], seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.


1Cr 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue pray that he may interpret.


1Cr 14:14 For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.


1Cr 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.


1Cr 14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?


1Cr 14:17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.


1Cr 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:


1Cr 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that [by my voice] I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an [unknown] tongue.

It was prophesised to come, and even David knew of it:

Psa 68:18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, [for] the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell [among them].

Yet, they claim they knew NOTHING of His resurection!!! They should read the old covenant and read it with their eyes open.

They knew that God was going to come work through MEN.

That God would dwell among us...by His spirit.

Psa 68:19 Blessed [be] the Lord, [who] daily loadeth us [with benefits, even] the God of our salvation. Selah.

David knew he was saved!


Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

for this purpose:




Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;


Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:


Eph 4:14 That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;


Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, [even] Christ:


Don't let the teachings of men steal your benefits!

 

[graceandpeace]

http://www.hymnlyrics.org/lyricsw/what_can_wash_away_my_sin.html What can wash away my sin? Nothing but the blood of Jesus (received by grace through faith apart from works Titus 3:5; Eph. 2:8-9)!

Heb. 9:22; Jn. 14:6; Jn. 3:16; Acts 4:12; Rom. 1:16

..one of my favorite old tunes. Thanks.:drum:

 

[oatmeal]

We are fellowheirs with them...(Israel)

Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

So, you are wrongly reading it; for it is ONLY those whom were cut off that we are to bring to jealousy...God never cut off the whole nation, silly.

Until you rightly divide the word of God you are never going to understand the TRUE mystery.

You madists make me giggle.

Grace and peace,

Ephesians 3:6 is what the great mystery is. Nothing else.

oatmeal

 

[Totton Linnet]

Well thats a white wash, and political nonsense when you can't back up your claims, oh spiritual one andy.

Now about reality that you are now spiritualizing all away because you have no viable proof! Where are the dead being raised, and the blind eyes opened, the sick healed etc.........? the truth is you can't find any, you have to shuck and jive your way though when confronted about it. Lets play the preterist spiritualizing game so I don't have to face reality.

Goose bumps don't count andy.

*
God is moving in mighty miracle power in Africa and in China. God is punishing Europe and America [and I mean the church] by sending a spiritual drought because they knew not the time of their visitation.

The fact is that intellectual christianity never was God's way. It has ALWAYS been a weak and niggardly gospel. It began with the church fathers [so called] when they started apologising for the faith and using philosophy instead of preaching the gospel. The EUCHARIST was made the central focus of worship and the bishop was to be revered and obeyed as Christ.

No wonder God stopped confirming THAT.

We have the same proof as you have that miracles took place in the bible, we believe the testimony coming out of Indonesia, the Latinos and yes are right under your noses, you won't see it not because you are not Pentecost but because God is PLENTYCROSS with your sneers.

 

[Totton Linnet]

We overcome our fear of disappointment when we walk in the love of God. It's something that has to be a revelation to you when the word of God gets down in your heart. Faith gets quickened within you and you no longer care about sickness and disease. There is a rest in God where things like this no longer move you, but you have to be persuaded, and you won't be if you explain it all away with man made powerless dispensationalism.

*
And it is true Andy that Jesus looked around at them with anger, GRIEVED at their hardness of heart, it is this hardness that is in the western church that is the hinderance to the greater moving of God's Spirit.

I admire your dogged faith and testimony

 

[bybee]

What were they for, why did the stop? Why do you think they haven't stopped.

As I understand it the "Seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit" were given so that the receivers might fully embrace the gift of salvation:
1. Wisdom
2. Understanding
3. Counsel
4. Fortitude
5. Knowledge
6. Piety
7. Fear of the Lord
I have believed that they were ongoing gifts.
Correct me if I am wrong.
Thanks, pat

 

[graceandpeace]

Grace and peace,

Ephesians 3:6 is what the great mystery is. Nothing else.

oatmeal

That is what I quoted silly...yet, you need context of the whole word of God to know whom was cut off and whom wasnt.

 

[graceandpeace]

*
God is moving in mighty miracle power in Africa and in China. God is punishing Europe and America [and I mean the church] by sending a spiritual drought because they knew not the time of their visitation.

The fact is that intellectual christianity never was God's way. It has ALWAYS been a weak and niggardly gospel. It began with the church fathers [so called] when they started apologising for the faith and using philosophy instead of preaching the gospel. The EUCHARIST was made the central focus of worship and the bishop was to be revered and obeyed as Christ.

No wonder God stopped confirming THAT.

We have the same proof as you have that miracles took place in the bible, we believe the testimony coming out of Indonesia, the Latinos and yes are right under your noses, you won't see it not because you are not Pentecost but because God is PLENTYCROSS with your sneers.

amen, it is a true saying..that people only see what they want to see.

 

[Ryan Collins]

As I understand it the "Seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit" were given so that the receivers might fully embrace the gift of salvation:
1. Wisdom
2. Understanding
3. Counsel
4. Fortitude
5. Knowledge
6. Piety
7. Fear of the Lord
I have believed that they were ongoing gifts.
Correct me if I am wrong.
Thanks, pat

Pat,

It's more than just that list.

Romans 12: Exhortation, giving, leadership, mercy, prophecy, service, teaching.

1 Corinthians 12: Administration, Apostle, Discernment, Faith, Healing, Helps, Knowledge, Miracles, Prophecy, Teaching, Tongues, Tongues Interpretation, Wisdom.

Ephesians 4: Apostle, evangelism, Pastor, prophecy, teaching.

 

[bybee]

Pat,

It's more than just that list.

Romans 12: Exhortation, giving, leadership, mercy, prophecy, service, teaching.

1 Corinthians 12: Administration, Apostle, Discernment, Faith, Healing, Helps, Knowledge, Miracles, Prophecy, Teaching, Tongues, Tongues Interpretation, Wisdom.

Ephesians 4: Apostle, evangelism, Pastor, prophecy, teaching.

Thankyou. And are not all of these gifts ongoing?

 

[godrulz]

As I understand it the "Seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit" were given so that the receivers might fully embrace the gift of salvation:
1. Wisdom
2. Understanding
3. Counsel
4. Fortitude
5. Knowledge
6. Piety
7. Fear of the Lord
I have believed that they were ongoing gifts.
Correct me if I am wrong.
Thanks, pat

Where did you get this list from? The Apocrypha?

 

[Zeke]

*
God is moving in mighty miracle power in Africa and in China. God is punishing Europe and America [and I mean the church] by sending a spiritual drought because they knew not the time of their visitation.

The fact is that intellectual christianity never was God's way. It has ALWAYS been a weak and niggardly gospel. It began with the church fathers [so called] when they started apologising for the faith and using philosophy instead of preaching the gospel. The EUCHARIST was made the central focus of worship and the bishop was to be revered and obeyed as Christ.

No wonder God stopped confirming THAT.

We have the same proof as you have that miracles took place in the bible, we believe the testimony coming out of Indonesia, the Latinos and yes are right under your noses, you won't see it not because you are not Pentecost but because God is PLENTYCROSS with your sneers.

I sneer at pretenders, God can heal if thats His will, but that is no longer through a man.
The track record (they have none) of those who claim the pentecostal signs, and wonders isn't to good, words have little meaning when the proof is never presented.
The same thing seen among the charismatic churches can be found in other religions, and paganism. The real healing power that took place in the acts period was not induced hypnotic trickery, or falsh spiritual manifestation that passes for signs and wonders today. Blind eyes from birth where opened, the dead raised, leprosy healed, thats what should be happening if one claims the pentecostal period for today.

And it happened among all believers, not just some over in another land.

Our focus is Colossians 3:1-4, not on the earthly kingdom that Israel was looking for Acts 1:6, and was being offered with signs and wonders to show it was from God, Acts 2:11, 2:22.