Eternal Security !

[lifeisgood]

You were already shown scripture many times of how PAUL BOASTED in those who obey AND IN HIMSELF for obeying.

Now believe the scriptures.

I do believe the Scriptures and the Scriptures tells me Paul's boasting has absolutely nothing to do with your boasting.

 

[lifeisgood]

That is the most ignorant thing I have ever seen...people condemning me for obeying and for Paul boasting about obeying.

People are NOT condemning you, gt, people are trying to make you see that you are producing your own salvation, which has already been rejected by God.

As I have asked you to do, place the works of your hands side by side with the sacrifice of God --- Jesus Christ and His finished work on the Cross.

If you feel that the works of your hands even reach the dust His feet left behind then.................you are producing your own salvation, and God will reject the works of your hands.

One more time a UNbeliever CANNOT obey God.
They have to believe to be saved.
Their faith has to be placed in the correct object which correct object has to be totally and exclusively, plus absolutely nothing added to it --- Jesus Christ and His finished work at the Cross of Calvary.

 

[lifeisgood]

Again and Again, I did nothing with my hands, I did it with my spirit, which is my heart and my mind.

Sure you did everything with your hands:
- I, gt, obeyed.
- I, gt, then was saved.
- I, gt, etc.

And now, your spirit is the same thing as your heart and your mind. :think:

You're sounding so much as a friend of mine saying to me today that she was saved because the priest came and prayed over her before she was operated on.

 

[patrick jane]

You were already shown scripture many times of how PAUL BOASTED in those who obey AND IN HIMSELF for obeying.

Now believe the scriptures.

Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV -

 

[lifeisgood]

All I ever wanted my whole life as long as I can remember is God's Truth. Many obstacles were put in my way from knowing God, i.e. the Catholic denomination, the Jehovah Witness', the Mormons, the Atheists, the trouble's of this world, the Calvinists, the Baptists, etc.

All we have to do to find God is to seek Jesus' teachings and we will find God after we obey.

He is the author of and Father of our spirits.

You cannot obey any of Jesus' commandments because His commandments were not for you, you have said so, when I tell you to go and do this or that that Jesus said, and you say, 'well, that wasn't for me.' And then you BOAST that you OBEY everything He has commanded.

 

[God's Truth]

Now, on top of being a Catholic, JW, Mormon, you are Oneness.

You do not care what you say do you.

 

[God's Truth]

I do believe the Scriptures and the Scriptures tells me Paul's boasting has absolutely nothing to do with your boasting.

Your denial is not a defense for the Truth.

 

[God's Truth]

People are NOT condemning you, gt, people are trying to make you see that you are producing your own salvation, which has already been rejected by God.

As I have asked you to do, place the works of your hands side by side with the sacrifice of God --- Jesus Christ and His finished work on the Cross.

If you feel that the works of your hands even reach the dust His feet left behind then.................you are producing your own salvation, and God will reject the works of your hands.

One more time a UNbeliever CANNOT obey God.
They have to believe to be saved.
Their faith has to be placed in the correct object which correct object has to be totally and exclusively, plus absolutely nothing added to it --- Jesus Christ and His finished work at the Cross of Calvary.

Jesus' words are not dust.

As for you keep saying I say unbelievers get saved, prove it now where I ever said unbelievers get saved.

We have to believe and obey.

 

[God's Truth]

Sure you did everything with your hands:
- I, gt, obeyed.
- I, gt, then was saved.
- I, gt, etc.

And now, your spirit is the same thing as your heart and your mind. :think:

You're sounding so much as a friend of mine saying to me today that she was saved because the priest came and prayed over her before she was operated on.

Jesus is the Way. You have to do what the Way says to get where you want to go.

 

[God's Truth]

Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV -

Those works Paul speaks about are the ceremonial/purification works.

Paul is explaining how we no longer have to work at cleaning ourselves to be saved, for faith in Jesus' blood is what cleans us.

 

[God's Truth]

You cannot obey any of Jesus' commandments because His commandments were not for you, you have said so,

I have said no such thing.

 

[beloved57]

Most Hyper-Calvinists, e.g., b57, Nanja, do not believe that justification—being declared righteous based on the imputed righteousness of Christ—occurs at the time a person is regenerated. Instead, they believe that God's elect are already declared righteous from before the foundation of the world. This heresy is known as eternal justification.

Some Hyper-Calvinists would say that God's people were justified at the cross; however, this has the same implications for the unregenerate elect after the cross as eternal justification. These Hyper-Calvinists claim that eternal justification (or the justification at the cross view) glorifies God by taking the work of man out of the justification equation and that any who believe that faith and justification are inseparably connected believe in a form of salvation conditioned on the sinner.

Along with justification comes all the other objective blessings, including adoption, reconciliation, and sanctification. Thus, eternal justification advocates believe that, when an unregenerate elect person is conceived in the womb, and throughout his time as an unregenerate sinner, he is already counted as perfectly righteous and holy, is thus a child of God and not of the devil, and is not under God's curse or wrath. God is at peace with these unregenerate elect and is not at enmity with them. In short, the Hyper-Calvinist imports the secret things of God (Deut. 29:29) into the revealed will of God contrary to the commands of Scripture that clearly call all men to their duty to call upon the name of the Lord and be saved.

The Scriptures reveal to men, as creatures, to have creaturely confidence, the maximal possible confidence they can have, that Christ is offered for their salvation in the Gospel. They need not peer into hidden things and wonder about whether they have been hypothetically or really decreed to believe the Gospel. It is sufficient for them to hear and believe or reject the historical proclamation of the Gospel. No person has to go up to heaven to discover God's secret decree to give faith and repentance to some. No person has to descend into the depths of their own experience to conclude they have been called. The gospel itself gives a full and free warrant to receive and rest upon Christ alone for salvation. Anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will not be turned away, nor lost to Him.

If we bring the decree into the call of God for all men to believe, we will end up like a dog chasing its tail. Many are called but few are chosen. We are bound to keep them distinct. Every attempt to treat them as one thing ends up universalizing the decree (e.g., Robert Pate) or particularizing the call (e.g., beloved57).

The calling is general and indefinite to sinners as sinners. Again, "Many are called but few are chosen." The calling is general and indefinite to sinners as sinners. The One who calls has His chosen among those who are outwardly called, and this secret election only becomes manifest in the personal reception or rejection of the outward calling by the sinner. We have to resist bringing the elect and reprobate into the discussion at the point of the outward administration of the gospel. Doing so, as does the Hyper-Calvinist, distorts Calvinism to impose the secret election on the administration of the gospel because it undermines the historical administration by which the eternal decree will be brought to pass in time.

It is Hyper-Calvinistic to bring the decree into the call of the Lord because it denies the duty of faith. Faith is a moral duty. It is commanded by the law. It presupposes man once had the ability to obey the call and is not able to obey the call now because of his fall. Therefore it is man's own fault that he does not believe for when Adam fell we all fell in Adam just as if we were actually there in the Garden with Adam. Thus we can say that all men are commanded to believe the Gospel but saving faith is an evangelical grace. There's no way to jump from the command to believe (to which natural man is condemned for his unbelief) to making saving faith a work. Saving faith is not a work. Saving faith is something created...by God. Saving faith is something that is created in the hearts of men by the Holy Spirit through the proclamation of the Gospel.

Saving faith is decreed by God to the elect. It is not a condition of salvation, but God has made faith a part of the order of salvation, and it is therefore necessary. The gospel teaches it, but the command and authority to believe comes from the claims of the moral law on man as a creature made in the image of God. In sum, to particularize "saving faith" in the gospel call is hyper-Calvinist because it takes something which is offered indefinitely to all and makes it particular to a few.

From this eternal justification heresy, Hyper-Calvinists wrongly believe that a justified person can be a God-hater. This is contrary to Scripture (see Romans 1 for example), in the teachings that all who are not yet born-anew (regenerated) are at enmity with God. The unregenerate (whether unregenerate elect or reprobate) quite literally hates God with every thought, word, and deed.

The following are the necessary implications of eternal justification (or any view of justification that is not connected with faith) that demonstrate this heresy to be damnable. These Hyper-Calvinist necessarily believes the following:

(1) While they were going about to establish a righteousness of their own and bringing forth dead works, evil deeds, and fruit unto death, they were pleasing to God.
(2) A justified person can commit sins such as believing and confessing a false gospel.
(3) They had the imputed righteousness of Christ while remaining ignorant of that imputed righteousness.
(4) Without faith it is possible to please God, and some who are in the flesh are able to please God.
(5) When they were dead in trespasses and sins, walking according to the course of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, conducting themselves according to the lusts of their flesh, acting out the things, the wills of the flesh and of the understandings, they were not children of wrath (Ephesians 2:1-3).
(6) There are some who are redeemed, who are God-pleasers, who are friends of God, who also walk as the rest of the nations walk, in the vanity of their mind, having been darkened in the intellect, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them because of the hardness of their heart, who, having cast off all feeling, gave themselves up to lust, to the working of all uncleanness with greediness (Ephesians 4:17-19).

b57 and Nanja represent no proper view of Calvinism or the Reformed view of the doctrines of grace. Their Hyper-Calvinism has been declared by all the Reformed to be a heretical.

AMR

Slander and bearing false witness. Yes we nanja and I believe that Justification is from eternity and that it was based on the Cross Work Christ would accomplish in time. See from the Divine perspective and testimony Christ was slain from the from the foundation Rev 13:8, because God isn't bound by time. So The sins of the Elect had already been charged to Christ before the foundation, hence not charged to the Elect before the foundation, so they were justified from them as early, again based on the Cross Work in time! And non imputation of sins automatically means imputation of Christ Righteousness Rom 4.

So quit lying on us.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[beloved57]

Amr

Thus, eternal justification advocates believe that, when an unregenerate elect person is conceived in the womb, and throughout his time as an unregenerate sinner, he is already counted as perfectly righteous and holy, is thus a child of God and not of the devil, and is not under God's curse or wrath. God is at peace with these unregenerate elect and is not at enmity with them

That is correct, the Elect, whom Christ died for, even when they are being enemies, what they are by nature, even then they have been reconciled to God by His Death. Rom 5:10. So how could they be under Gods Wrath, or curse as unregenerated enemies and Reconciled to God at the same time? Explain that geniuses!

 

[Nanja]

Slander and bearing false witness. Yes we nanja and I believe that Justification is from eternity and that it was based on the Cross Work Christ would accomplish in time. See from the Divine perspective and testimony Christ was slain from the from the foundation Rev 13:8, because God isn't bound by time. So The sins of the Elect had already been charged to Christ before the foundation, hence not charged to the Elect before the foundation, so they were justified from them as early, again based on the Cross Work in time! And non imputation of sins automatically means imputation of Christ Righteousness Rom 4.

So quit lying on us.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Perfectly stated, my Brother!

 

[beloved57]

Perfectly stated, my Brother!

Praise the Lord! See how the enemy slanders and misrepresent the servants of God ?

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

All for whom Christ died, which were Chosen in Him before the foundation of the World Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Who also have redemption through His Blood with the forgiveness of sins Eph 1:7, they are and always have been Eternally Secured in Christ, Yes even before they become Believers, before they are even Called by the Gospel to Faith Jude 1:1

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Before Called buy the Gospel, they had been first preserved in Jesus Christ their Saviour, which preservation denotes their Eternal Security in Christ.

I would totally love your OP, if it wasn't built in the doctrine of reprobation and election.

There's nothing "limited" about atonement. There will be lost souls... but... the lens of the how and the nature of the why is the foundational error of your OP.

I may seem horrible to you, but I count you my sibling in Jesus.

#Peace

 

[jsanford108]

The doctrine of predestination is faulty, for it ignores all instances of free will contained in the Scriptures. Likewise, the doctrine of free will only is faulty, for it ignores all instances of predestination. The best position is that both exist, cohesively with each other. God clearly predetermined events and people, visible in the prophecies. He also wants us to choose Him. Obviously the best verse that everyone knows on free will is John 3:16.

The issue with the Calvinist position of predestination is that it implies a very dark nature to God and Christ. If they determined the people who would go to Heaven before time began, then that means they also determined the people who aren't amend to Hell. It also implies there was no need for Christ, since the elect were destined for Heaven already. Sure, a sacrifice was needed for absolution, however, God is God. He could have just wiped the slate clean for His good pleasure. He is limitless, after all. Calvinist predestination doctrine directly contradicts the necessity of Christ's crucifixion.

 

[Nanja]

Praise the Lord! See how the enemy slanders and misrepresent the servants of God ?

Yep, I see it. He portrays himself to be one of the Brethren, but in actuality is a religious persecutor of God's Elect, and an enemy of the Truth.


Mat. 5:11-12
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Is. 54:17
No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

 

[beloved57]

nanja

Yep, I see it. He portrays himself to be one of the Brethren, but in actuality is a religious persecutor of God's Elect, and an enemy of the Truth.

Thats right. He treats Christ's death with contempt, to say that the elect are born cursed, condemned, under Gods wrath, even after Christ has died for them, and reconciled them to God while being enemies Rom 5:10 !

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

nanja



Thats right. He treats Christ's death with contempt, to say that the elect are born cursed, condemned, under Gods wrath, even after Christ has died for them, and reconciled them to God while being enemies Rom 5:10 !

Christ's death is held in comptempt by Limiting its effect and insisting that He only died for some.

This is especially apparent in your mindset when you claim that He is your God and not a fellow Blood Believing Christians God.

Oh well...

#Have fun