Eternal Security !

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beloved57

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All for whom Christ died, which were Chosen in Him before the foundation of the World Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Who also have redemption through His Blood with the forgiveness of sins Eph 1:7, they are and always have been Eternally Secured in Christ, Yes even before they become Believers, before they are even Called by the Gospel to Faith Jude 1:1

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Before Called buy the Gospel, they had been first preserved in Jesus Christ their Saviour, which preservation denotes their Eternal Security in Christ.
 

Nanja

Well-known member
All for whom Christ died, which were Chosen in Him before the foundation of the World Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Who also have redemption through His Blood with the forgiveness of sins Eph 1:7, they are and always have been Eternally Secured in Christ, Yes even before they become Believers, before they are even Called by the Gospel to Faith Jude 1:1

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Before Called buy the Gospel, they had been first preserved in Jesus Christ their Saviour, which preservation denotes their Eternal Security in Christ.


Amen!

Father had Chosen His Elect to be in Union with Christ before time, setting them apart,
separating them from all the rest of mankind, in His Holy Purpose of Election Rom. 9:11.
Their Eternal Inheritance Eph. 1:11 was secured for them in their Surety Head and Mediator Heb. 7:22.

Heb. 9:15
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death,
for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament,
they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Because the Elect were given Grace in their Head from everlasting,
they never had any sin charged to them Eph. 1:7, but was imputed to their Surety.
So in they are in a permanent state of Forgiveness, Eternally Secure in the Righteousness of Christ 1 Cor. 1:30!

Eph. 2:7
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

~~~~~
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Amen!

Father had Chosen His Elect to be in Union with Christ before time, setting them apart,
separating them from all the rest of mankind, in His Holy Purpose of Election Rom. 9:11.
Their Eternal Inheritance Eph. 1:11 was secured for them in their Surety Head and Mediator Heb. 7:22.

Heb. 9:15
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death,
for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament,
they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Because the Elect were given Grace in their Head from everlasting,
they never had any sin charged to them Eph. 1:7, but was imputed to their Surety.
So in they are in a permanent state of Forgiveness, Eternally Secure in the Righteousness of Christ 1 Cor. 1:30!

Eph. 2:7
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

~~~~~

Amen Sister ! :)
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Eternally secured even as unbelievers !

Eternally secured even as unbelievers !

Eternally secured even as unbelievers ! Whom am I speaking of ? Why it pertaineth to Gods Elect, men and women for whom Christ died. Now understand something which the scripture teaches, that all for whom Christ died [ the offering of Himself] by that He hath perfected them forever Heb 10:10-14

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


Who are the them that are sanctified ? Why its them He died for in Vs 10

Now this being perfected forever doeth entail the purging away of their sins and the guilt and punishment due ! The writer of Hebrews earlier wrote of those Christ died for these words Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

The word purged here the greek word katharismos and means:

cleansing, purifying, purification, literal, ceremonial, or moral; met: expiation.

a cleansing from the guilt of sins

Theres not one sin of theirs not satisfied for, hence they are perfected forever. Not even the sin of unbelief is held against them. How do we know this ? Its simple, because by His death they are reconciled to God even while being enemies/unbelievers ! Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Enemies and Unbelievers are the same. Remember what Jesus called the unbelieving jews here ? Lk 19:14

14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.

Now if we understand the parable here its speaking about the jews, the nation of israel. Then later He says of them same ones, the citizens of that nation which would not have Him to reign over them these words Vs 27

27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.



They were enemies broken of in unbelief Rom 11:20,28

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

But if one is an enemy in unbelief deserving of being cut off, and yet Christ died for them, they are reconciled to God ! Not only that, they are perfected forever !
 

God's Truth

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Eternally secured even as unbelievers ! Whom am I speaking of ? Why it pertaineth to Gods Elect, men and women for whom Christ died. Now understand something which the scripture teaches, that all for whom Christ died [ the offering of Himself] by that He hath perfected them forever Heb 10:10-14

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


Who are the them that are sanctified ? Why its them He died for in Vs 10

Now this being perfected forever doeth entail the purging away of their sins and the guilt and punishment due ! The writer of Hebrews earlier wrote of those Christ died for these words Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

The word purged here the greek word katharismos and means:

cleansing, purifying, purification, literal, ceremonial, or moral; met: expiation.

a cleansing from the guilt of sins

Theres not one sin of theirs not satisfied for, hence they are perfected forever. Not even the sin of unbelief is held against them. How do we know this ? Its simple, because by His death they are reconciled to God even while being enemies/unbelievers ! Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Enemies and Unbelievers are the same. Remember what Jesus called the unbelieving jews here ? Lk 19:14

14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.

Now if we understand the parable here its speaking about the jews, the nation of israel. Then later He says of them same ones, the citizens of that nation which would not have Him to reign over them these words Vs 27

27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.



They were enemies broken of in unbelief Rom 11:20,28

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

But if one is an enemy in unbelief deserving of being cut off, and yet Christ died for them, they are reconciled to God ! Not only that, they are perfected forever !

No one is saved before they are saved. That does not make sense.
 

God's Truth

New member
If someone is saved and do not know it, what are they saved from?

If one does not know they are saved, how does one talk to Jesus?
 

Samie

New member
Those Christ died for are perfected forever, even when they are enemies and unbelievers!
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Mark 1:14-15 . . . Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Who are being called to repent in the gospel that Christ preached, the elect or the non-elect?
 

Ask Mr. Religion

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Most Hyper-Calvinists, e.g., b57, Nanja, do not believe that justification—being declared righteous based on the imputed righteousness of Christ—occurs at the time a person is regenerated. Instead, they believe that God's elect are already declared righteous from before the foundation of the world. This heresy is known as eternal justification.

Some Hyper-Calvinists would say that God's people were justified at the cross; however, this has the same implications for the unregenerate elect after the cross as eternal justification. These Hyper-Calvinists claim that eternal justification (or the justification at the cross view) glorifies God by taking the work of man out of the justification equation and that any who believe that faith and justification are inseparably connected believe in a form of salvation conditioned on the sinner.

Along with justification comes all the other objective blessings, including adoption, reconciliation, and sanctification. Thus, eternal justification advocates believe that, when an unregenerate elect person is conceived in the womb, and throughout his time as an unregenerate sinner, he is already counted as perfectly righteous and holy, is thus a child of God and not of the devil, and is not under God's curse or wrath. God is at peace with these unregenerate elect and is not at enmity with them. In short, the Hyper-Calvinist imports the secret things of God (Deut. 29:29) into the revealed will of God contrary to the commands of Scripture that clearly call all men to their duty to call upon the name of the Lord and be saved.

The Scriptures reveal to men, as creatures, to have creaturely confidence, the maximal possible confidence they can have, that Christ is offered for their salvation in the Gospel. They need not peer into hidden things and wonder about whether they have been hypothetically or really decreed to believe the Gospel. It is sufficient for them to hear and believe or reject the historical proclamation of the Gospel. No person has to go up to heaven to discover God's secret decree to give faith and repentance to some. No person has to descend into the depths of their own experience to conclude they have been called. The gospel itself gives a full and free warrant to receive and rest upon Christ alone for salvation. Anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will not be turned away, nor lost to Him.

If we bring the decree into the call of God for all men to believe, we will end up like a dog chasing its tail. Many are called but few are chosen. We are bound to keep them distinct. Every attempt to treat them as one thing ends up universalizing the decree (e.g., Robert Pate) or particularizing the call (e.g., beloved57).

The calling is general and indefinite to sinners as sinners. Again, "Many are called but few are chosen." The calling is general and indefinite to sinners as sinners. The One who calls has His chosen among those who are outwardly called, and this secret election only becomes manifest in the personal reception or rejection of the outward calling by the sinner. We have to resist bringing the elect and reprobate into the discussion at the point of the outward administration of the gospel. Doing so, as does the Hyper-Calvinist, distorts Calvinism to impose the secret election on the administration of the gospel because it undermines the historical administration by which the eternal decree will be brought to pass in time.

It is Hyper-Calvinistic to bring the decree into the call of the Lord because it denies the duty of faith. Faith is a moral duty. It is commanded by the law. It presupposes man once had the ability to obey the call and is not able to obey the call now because of his fall. Therefore it is man's own fault that he does not believe for when Adam fell we all fell in Adam just as if we were actually there in the Garden with Adam. Thus we can say that all men are commanded to believe the Gospel but saving faith is an evangelical grace. There's no way to jump from the command to believe (to which natural man is condemned for his unbelief) to making saving faith a work. Saving faith is not a work. Saving faith is something created...by God. Saving faith is something that is created in the hearts of men by the Holy Spirit through the proclamation of the Gospel.

Saving faith is decreed by God to the elect. It is not a condition of salvation, but God has made faith a part of the order of salvation, and it is therefore necessary. The gospel teaches it, but the command and authority to believe comes from the claims of the moral law on man as a creature made in the image of God. In sum, to particularize "saving faith" in the gospel call is hyper-Calvinist because it takes something which is offered indefinitely to all and makes it particular to a few.

From this eternal justification heresy, Hyper-Calvinists wrongly believe that a justified person can be a God-hater. This is contrary to Scripture (see Romans 1 for example), in the teachings that all who are not yet born-anew (regenerated) are at enmity with God. The unregenerate (whether unregenerate elect or reprobate) quite literally hates God with every thought, word, and deed.

The following are the necessary implications of eternal justification (or any view of justification that is not connected with faith) that demonstrate this heresy to be damnable. These Hyper-Calvinist necessarily believes the following:

(1) While they were going about to establish a righteousness of their own and bringing forth dead works, evil deeds, and fruit unto death, they were pleasing to God.
(2) A justified person can commit sins such as believing and confessing a false gospel.
(3) They had the imputed righteousness of Christ while remaining ignorant of that imputed righteousness.
(4) Without faith it is possible to please God, and some who are in the flesh are able to please God.
(5) When they were dead in trespasses and sins, walking according to the course of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, conducting themselves according to the lusts of their flesh, acting out the things, the wills of the flesh and of the understandings, they were not children of wrath (Ephesians 2:1-3).
(6) There are some who are redeemed, who are God-pleasers, who are friends of God, who also walk as the rest of the nations walk, in the vanity of their mind, having been darkened in the intellect, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them because of the hardness of their heart, who, having cast off all feeling, gave themselves up to lust, to the working of all uncleanness with greediness (Ephesians 4:17-19).

b57 and Nanja represent no proper view of Calvinism or the Reformed view of the doctrines of grace. Their Hyper-Calvinism has been declared by all the Reformed to be a heretical.

AMR
 

Samie

New member
Corporate justification for all of Adam's race occurred at the cross (Rom 5:18). How?

Scriptures declare that Christ took our sins on His body on the cross (John 1:29; 1 Pet 2:24). This was made evident when on the cross, God fashioned us - sinners - into the body of His Son (Eph 2:11-19) Who knew no sin. Thus we sinners are the body of Christ Who knew no sin. Attached to Him being His body with our sins, we died when He the Head died (2 Cor 5:14, 15; Heb 2:9) and we were freed and forgiven from sin (Rom 6:7; Col 2:13; Rev 1:5), then made alive together with Him when He resurrected (Eph 2: 4-6; Col 2:13). Thus for as long as one is not detached by Christ Himself from His body, he is heaven-bound. His being in Christ's body is SOLELY God's work FOR man. But whether one remains FOREVER in the body of Christ, depends upon whether Christ judges him as an overcomer when he dies. If he is not, then his name is blotted out from the book of life, removed from being part of the body of Christ, expelled from membership in the family of God. Only overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life (Rev 3:5).

Those who teach that people need to first believe to become part of the body of Christ seem to impose an impossible requirement, because Christ Himself said that while separate from Him, man can do NOTHING. Why require SOMETHING from one who Christ said can yet do NOTHING?
 

God's Truth

New member
Corporate justification for all of Adam's race occurred at the cross (Rom 5:18). How?

Scriptures declare that Christ took our sins on His body on the cross (John 1:29; 1 Pet 2:24). This was made evident when on the cross, God fashioned us - sinners - into the body of His Son (Eph 2:11-19) Who knew no sin. Thus we sinners are the body of Christ Who knew no sin. Attached to Him being His body with our sins, we died when He the Head died (2 Cor 5:14, 15; Heb 2:9) and we were freed and forgiven from sin (Rom 6:7; Col 2:13; Rev 1:5), then made alive together with Him when He resurrected (Eph 2: 4-6; Col 2:13). Thus for as long as one is not detached by Christ Himself from His body, he is heaven-bound. His being in Christ's body is SOLELY God's work FOR man. But whether one remains FOREVER in the body of Christ, depends upon whether Christ judges him as an overcomer when he dies. If he is not, then his name is blotted out from the book of life, removed from being part of the body of Christ, expelled from membership in the family of God. Only overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life (Rev 3:5).

Those who teach that people need to first believe to become part of the body of Christ seem to impose an impossible requirement, because Christ Himself said that while separate from Him, man can do NOTHING. Why require SOMETHING from one who Christ said can yet do NOTHING?

ONE IS NOT apart from JESUS if one is trying to be saved by Jesus by following his instructions to be saved!
 

God's Truth

New member
Corporate justification for all of Adam's race occurred at the cross (Rom 5:18). How?

Scriptures declare that Christ took our sins on His body on the cross (John 1:29; 1 Pet 2:24). This was made evident when on the cross, God fashioned us - sinners - into the body of His Son (Eph 2:11-19) Who knew no sin. Thus we sinners are the body of Christ Who knew no sin. Attached to Him being His body with our sins, we died when He the Head died (2 Cor 5:14, 15; Heb 2:9) and we were freed and forgiven from sin (Rom 6:7; Col 2:13; Rev 1:5), then made alive together with Him when He resurrected (Eph 2: 4-6; Col 2:13). Thus for as long as one is not detached by Christ Himself from His body, he is heaven-bound. His being in Christ's body is SOLELY God's work FOR man. But whether one remains FOREVER in the body of Christ, depends upon whether Christ judges him as an overcomer when he dies. If he is not, then his name is blotted out from the book of life, removed from being part of the body of Christ, expelled from membership in the family of God. Only overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life (Rev 3:5).

Those who teach that people need to first believe to become part of the body of Christ seem to impose an impossible requirement, because Christ Himself said that while separate from Him, man can do NOTHING. Why require SOMETHING from one who Christ said can yet do NOTHING?

All those scripture you posted about Jesus dying for us---we do NOT enter that grace until we come to Jesus in faith and repentance.

See Romans 5:2.

We have to believe and obey to get saved, and to stay saved.
 

God's Truth

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Those Christ died for are perfected forever by His Death, even before they believe Heb 10:14!

That scripture says those who are being sanctified. That is about after one is saved. Why would you ever believe you are sanctified before you are saved?
 

Samie

New member
ONE IS NOT apart from JESUS if one is trying to be saved by Jesus by following his instructions to be saved!
If you are in Jesus, you are not trying to be saved because you are already saved.

The issue is how can one who you said was separate from Christ be attached to Christ in the first place. That person can do NOTHING for him to be attached to Christ otherwise Christ's statement that one separate from Him can do NOTHING is false.

But obviously,Christ's statement is true. And that makes the statement that people are attached to Christ AFTER they believe, false.
 

Nick M

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The Lord Jesus Christ was chosen beforehand, not those that make up "us". When he was lifted up, he drew all men to him.
 
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