Does God Decieve?

6days

New member
No, I don't think God decieves, but I'm not sure why He sends delusion to those who already have rejected Him.
Thess. 2:12 “God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false”
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
No, I don't think God decieves, but I'm not sure why He sends delusion to those who already have rejected Him.
Thess. 2:12 “God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false”

God does not engage in deception. What is a strong delusion?
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
No, I don't think God decieves, but I'm not sure why He sends delusion to those who already have rejected Him.
Thess. 2:12 “God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false”

It reminds me of God hardening an already hard heart.

2 Thess. 2:9-12 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.​

Paul says the same here. These are people who already have a seared conscience...having rejected the truth beyond remedy.

1 Timothy 4:1-3
4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.​

Personally, I believe these are folks like the Jehovah Witnesses. They are so deluded by the cult they have bought into that they can no longer see truth when it is presented to them. They are recruiting heavily in these latter days, and we'll see this more and more....a great falling away from the hope of the Gospel. Having heard, they reject it for their own chosen delusion.
 

musterion

Well-known member
No, I don't think God decieves, but I'm not sure why He sends delusion to those who already have rejected Him.
Thess. 2:12 “God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false”

The same passage tells you why. You even said it.

Q. Why does He give people over to their lusts after their refusing to keep Him their knowledge?

A. Judgment.

Same thing here.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
It reminds me of God hardening an already hard heart.

2 Thess. 2:9-12 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.​

Paul says the same here. These are people who already have a seared conscience...having rejected the truth beyond remedy.

1 Timothy 4:1-3
4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.​

Personally, I believe these are folks like the Jehovah Witnesses. They are so deluded by the cult they have bought into that they can no longer see truth when it is presented to them. They are recruiting heavily in these latter days, and we'll see this more and more....a great falling away from the hope of the Gospel. Having heard, they reject it for their own chosen delusion.

I work with a JW who is a home carer and is one of the most compassionate, unassuming, empathic people I've met in my life. She doesn't celebrate Christmas as that's not part of the faith as I understand but she bought every person in the place presents with no want in return and is generous to a fault. She's highly regarded among staff and clients alike because of her caring attitude towards people. Something a lot of so called "righteous Christians" could do well to emulate. A lot around here sound like Musterion's rancid signature...
 

ok doser

Well-known member
I work with a JW who is a home carer and is one of the most compassionate, unassuming, empathic people I've met in my life.

I wonder if she spends her spare time flinging invective at strangers on the internet?

artie said:
Something a lot of so called "righteous Christians" could do well to emulate. A lot around here sound like Musterion's rancid signature...

Right, like that
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
No, I don't think God decieves, but I'm not sure why He sends delusion to those who already have rejected Him.
Thess. 2:12 “God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false”



2Ti 4:3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,
2Ti 4:4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

this 1Ki 22:13-40 is what the above once looked like
Ahab did not want the truth

1Ki 22:19 And he said, Hear therefore the Word of Jehovah: I saw Jehovah sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing by Him on His right hand and on His left.
1Ki 22:20 And Jehovah said, Who shall entice Ahab that he may go up and fall at Ramoth in Gilead? And one said this way, and another said that way.
1Ki 22:21 And there came forth a spirit and stood before Jehovah and said, I will entice him.
1Ki 22:22 And Jehovah said to him, With what? And he said, I will go forth and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And He said, You shall entice him and succeed also. Go forth and do so.
1Ki 22:23 Now therefore behold, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the LORD has declared disaster for you."
1Ki 22:24 Then Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah came near and struck Micaiah on the cheek and said, "How did the Spirit of the LORD go from me to speak to you?"
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
I work with a JW who is a home carer and is one of the most compassionate, unassuming, empathic people I've met in my life. She doesn't celebrate Christmas as that's not part of the faith as I understand but she bought every person in the place presents with no want in return and is generous to a fault. She's highly regarded among staff and clients alike because of her caring attitude towards people. Something a lot of so called "righteous Christians" could do well to emulate. A lot around here sound like Musterion's rancid signature...

And you can't see any of us in our own environment, can you, Artie?

You are so quick to judge. It's what the Witnesses preach that is wrong, and this forum is for the discussion of theology. We are dealing with those here who are quite set in their beliefs hoping to drag others into their ungodly religions.

We are here to stop them. If that's a problem for you, why are you here?
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Someone is letting the Fosters do the posting again in the wee hours. The lonely, bitter early morning hours.

If that was in reference to me and a certain Australian brew then you are way off the mark as usual, don't touch the stuff. Still, a lovely example of loving Christian witness as ever from you Musty. Happy new year to you sir.

:e4e:
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
And you can't see any of us in our own environment, can you, Artie?

You are so quick to judge. It's what the Witnesses preach that is wrong, and this forum is for the discussion of theology. We are dealing with those here who are quite set in their beliefs hoping to drag others into their ungodly religions.

We are here to stop them. If that's a problem for you, why are you here?

What, you aren't quick to judge?

The JW I know doesn't "preach", doesn't browbeat with her belief. I didn't even know she was one until someone else pointed it out and she doesn't talk about it unless someone asks. You talk about "ungodly religions" which in effect means a belief that doesn't match with yours doesn't it? "Stop them"? How are you gonna do that?

It's no problem for me.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
True, we should all play the holier than thou role you love, Artie. :chuckle:

Pffft, I wouldn't even claim that mantle in a million years but then I'm not the one with such a putrid signature line as Musty anyway. Go chuckle at yourself some more if you want but at least get relevant...
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
What, you aren't quick to judge?

The JW I know doesn't "preach", doesn't browbeat with her belief. I didn't even know she was one until someone else pointed it out and she doesn't talk about it unless someone asks. You talk about "ungodly religions" which in effect means a belief that doesn't match with yours doesn't it? "Stop them"? How are you gonna do that?

It's no problem for me.

She's not allowed to. Her leaders are very specific about who can preach what.

I don't go knocking on doors under orders from the leaders. I share the Gospel with those the Lord brings to my door...those who come with problems, with questions, and with doubts and fears.

Here on TOL, it's a different story. We are involved in a spiritual war. War isn't pretty, Artie.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Pffft, I wouldn't even claim that mantle in a million years but then I'm not the one with such a putrid signature line as Musty anyway. Go chuckle at yourself some more if you want but at least get relevant...

You're certainly obsessed with a signature line. Why does it bother you so much? Touchy, are you?

And I'll chuckle whenever I darn well please. When I see clowns, I laugh. Too bad for you.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
She's not allowed to. Her leaders are very specific about who can preach what.

I don't go knocking on doors under orders from the leaders. I share the Gospel with those the Lord brings to my door...those who come with problems, with questions, and with doubts and fears.

Here on TOL, it's a different story. We are involved in a spiritual war. War isn't pretty, Artie.

AFAIC she "preaches" kindness, patience, empathy, understanding by just being who she is. She displays more love than many a "preacher" of any religion and certainly more so than many on here who are so willing to judge and condemn others based on their "wrong" faith or lack of belief.

War? Oh, get a grip.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
You're certainly obsessed with a signature line. Why does it bother you so much? Touchy, are you?

And I'll chuckle whenever I darn well please. When I see clowns, I laugh. Too bad for you.

Well, it's pathetic. Typical of pompous, loveless, religionist blowhards and sure you can chuckle whenever you please. I just asked you to make it relevant is all...
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
There is not a thing wrong with Musty's signature. If it makes you uncomfortable, you'd best examine yourself.

There's everything wrong with it for anyone who has a semblance of compassion about them and isn't bound by pompous religious legalism. That rules you out huh?
 
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