keypurr
Well-known member
Like you, I do not read Greek either. Besides the Greek can distort truth as the originals were in Aramaic.
Do you have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian?
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
Like you, I do not read Greek either. Besides the Greek can distort truth as the originals were in Aramaic.
keypurr
Well-known member
The Apostles did not believe in a Trinity.
CherubRam
New member
The concept of God being a Trinity in Judaism and Christianity comes from Gnosticism. ALL of the parts of scriptures that suggest that God is a Trinity have been tampered with.
It is a sin to join Pagan and Gnostic notions to God.
CherubRam
New member
When asked, "Which is the most important commandment of all?" Jesus answered, "The most important of all the commandments is, hear, o Israel, the Lord our God is One." (Mark 12:29)
That is what we find throughout the scriptures:
"Beside me there is no God." (Isa. 44:6)
"I am God, and there is none else; there is no God beside me." (Isa. 45:5)
"I am God, and there is none else." (Isa. 46:9)
"One God and Father of all, who is above all." (Eph. 4:6)
"Hear, o Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord." (Deut. 6.4)
"There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." (1 Tim. 2:5)
"There is but one God, the Father, whom made all things, and us by Himself , and one lord Jesus Christ, by whom we are in. (1 Cor. 8:6)
"This is life eternal, that they might know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." (John 17:3)
This last quotation is Jesus speaking; addressing God in prayer as the one true God, and speaking of himself as separate from that one true God.
That is what we find throughout the scriptures:
"Beside me there is no God." (Isa. 44:6)
"I am God, and there is none else; there is no God beside me." (Isa. 45:5)
"I am God, and there is none else." (Isa. 46:9)
"One God and Father of all, who is above all." (Eph. 4:6)
"Hear, o Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord." (Deut. 6.4)
"There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." (1 Tim. 2:5)
"There is but one God, the Father, whom made all things, and us by Himself , and one lord Jesus Christ, by whom we are in. (1 Cor. 8:6)
"This is life eternal, that they might know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." (John 17:3)
This last quotation is Jesus speaking; addressing God in prayer as the one true God, and speaking of himself as separate from that one true God.
way 2 go
Well-known member
yup , one God.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
way 2 go
Well-known member
yes , the Apostles did believe in the Trinity.
Mat_28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
CherubRam
New member
Commentary on John 1:1.
The correct translation is (Divine.) The word (God) is a resent invention for the English language.
Pantheion
Greek pantheion, from pan 'all' + theion 'Divine Eternal-s' (from theios 'divine.')
From Greek aion, meaning Eternal, for an infinite amount of time Pantheion: Pan/the/ion. All Divine Eternal-s. The word “All” makes it plural.
aeon or aion or eon
1. An immeasurably long period of time. From Greek, Aion, an infinitely long time.
Greek word TON and THEON.
From the Scripture4All program. Link: www.scripture4all.org/
The Greek word "TON" is translated 1583 times as "the;" And 18 times as "the -one." It is used before nouns to mean a {certain-one-person-s,} or place, or thing. However, different translations of Greek do not always agree. That is the reason for my interpretation of John 1:1 as "the only Divine Eternal." In English the word “one” can also be translated as “only.” TON: The only. THEON: Divine Eternal.
John 1:1
Greek:
en arche en ho logos kai ho logos en pros ton theon kai theos en ho logos
Interlinear:
en (in) arche (beginning) en (was) ho (the) logos (Word) kai (and) ho (the) logos (Word) en (was) pos (toward or with) ton (TON is a special definite article "the" meaning the one and only, it appears as TON instead of O in the Greek) theon (Divine Eternal) kai (and) theos (Divine) en (was) ho (the) logos (Word)
In English we have:
In beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the (one or only) Divine Eternal, and Divine was the Word.
The defining article "a" must be supplied for the English language, to define that there is another Divine that is not the "Divine Eternal."
Why do translators drop off the definite article TON (the one or only) before Divine Eternal?
Theon and Theos
They both mean Divine, but in different cases. Theos is the nominative, Theon is accusative. Another form is Theou, which is genitive.
John 1:1 reads: “In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with [τὸν θεὸν, (TON THEON) literally, the only Divine Eternal], and the Word was divine. [θεὸς].”
In the first instance (“the Word was with the only Divine Eternal”) it is in the accusative case and thus is spelled θεὸν [theon] But in the second occurrence it is in the nominative case, and so it is spelled θεὸς [theos]
Ton Theon was also applied to Zeus, meaning "The Only Divine Eternal."
CherubRam
New member
To prove you are not wrong, show us where Christ said he is the Father.
Christ said he and the Father are one, meaning unity. We are also called to be one with the Father in unity.
CherubRam
New member
Not true! They left out important info.
genuineoriginal
New member
The Greek has "and God was the Word" not "and the Word was God"
genuineoriginal
New member
The Greek has "and God was the Word" not "and the Word was God"
Apple7
New member
Yes, they did.
Apple7
New member
No, keypops....
There's no such thing as " believing " in anything , to be a Christian ! The words believe , believer , and believing are mistranslations of the Greek word pisteuo .
genuineoriginal
New member
Correct.
Jesus never taught the Trinity.
The Apostles never believed in a Trinity.
The Apostles never taught a Trinity.
The Trinity did not become a part of Christian doctrine until the Council of Constantinople in 381 CE.
God's Truth
New member
We have to believe that we have to obey.
We have to believe that Jesus' blood washes us of the sins we repent of doing.
We have to believe that we have to do what Jesus says to do, and we have to actually do it.
God's Truth
New member
Now how does that make any difference?
Yes
genuineoriginal
New member
_________________
Logos, (Greek: “word,” “reason,” or “plan”)plural logoi, in Greek philosophy and theology, the divine reason implicit in the cosmos, ordering it and giving it form and meaning.
The idea of the logos in Greek thought harks back at least to the 6th-century-BC philosopher Heracleitus, who discerned in the cosmic process a logos analogous to the reasoning power in man. Later, the Stoics, philosophers who followed the teachings of the thinker Zeno of Citium (4th–3rd century BC), defined the logos as an active rational and spiritual principle that permeated all reality. They called the logos providence, nature, god, and the soul of the universe, which is composed of many seminal logoi that are contained in the universal logos. Philo of Alexandria, a 1st-century-AD Jewish philosopher, taught that the logos was the intermediary between God and the cosmos, being both the agent of creation and the agent through which the human mind can apprehend and comprehend God. According to Philo and the Middle Platonists, philosophers who interpreted in religious terms the teachings of the 4th-century-BC Greek master philosopher Plato, the logos was both immanent in the world and at the same time the transcendent divine mind.
_________________
It may not make much difference to most people when you are trying to state either of the following:Logos, (Greek: “word,” “reason,” or “plan”)plural logoi, in Greek philosophy and theology, the divine reason implicit in the cosmos, ordering it and giving it form and meaning.
The idea of the logos in Greek thought harks back at least to the 6th-century-BC philosopher Heracleitus, who discerned in the cosmic process a logos analogous to the reasoning power in man. Later, the Stoics, philosophers who followed the teachings of the thinker Zeno of Citium (4th–3rd century BC), defined the logos as an active rational and spiritual principle that permeated all reality. They called the logos providence, nature, god, and the soul of the universe, which is composed of many seminal logoi that are contained in the universal logos. Philo of Alexandria, a 1st-century-AD Jewish philosopher, taught that the logos was the intermediary between God and the cosmos, being both the agent of creation and the agent through which the human mind can apprehend and comprehend God. According to Philo and the Middle Platonists, philosophers who interpreted in religious terms the teachings of the 4th-century-BC Greek master philosopher Plato, the logos was both immanent in the world and at the same time the transcendent divine mind.
_________________
- and the active rational and spiritual principle that permeated all reality was God
- and God was the active rational and spiritual principle that permeated all reality
It does make a difference when you are trying to state either of the following:
- and Jesus was God
- and God was Jesus