JonahofAkron
New member
Just so I'm clear, you're saying that what God gave by speaking to Moses for Israel to live is flawed? God gave us something flawed? And He gave us something cursed?
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Do you agree that law of sin and death is a curse? a real big curse?
- Thread starter Gurucam
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Just so I'm clear, you're saying that what God gave by speaking to Moses for Israel to live is flawed? God gave us something flawed? And He gave us something cursed?
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Ben Masada
New member
Law of sin and death does not exist. What exists is Law of enlightenment and life. Otherwise, Jesus himself would not have built a parable about the importance to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31.)
Matthew: 7 King James Version (KJV)
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Matthew: 22 King James Version (KJV)
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
Hebrews: 9 King James Version (KJV)
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.
Judgment is as follows:
Galatians: 6 King James Version (KJV)
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Matthews: 25 KJV N.T.
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
People who esteem Moses' law are Goats. Every one who esteem, use, promote and/or invoke Moses law fall short of the glory of God. They certainly sin, get spiritual death and are delivered into hell inside the earth, with Satan. Indeed, Jesus, the King says to them: 'Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels'.
Romans: 4 KJV N.T.
15 because the Law brings wrath. And where there is no law, there is no transgression.
Clearly goats are transgressors, therefore, for goats the law exists. 'Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels' is clearly punishment for transgression. Therefore the law of sin and death is ever present for them. The law of sin and death ain't done away for them . . . although the law of sin and death is done away with for Christians/believers.
Romans: 5 KJV N.T.
13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Clearly, for goats, the law of sin and death exist, to this day.
Also goats are the very great majority of those called to Christianity. They are not chosen. After judging them, Jesus tells them: 'Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels'. Clearly they are judged under the law of sin and death. The law of sin and death exists for them and sin is imputed on them.
On the other hand only a few of those called to Christianity are chosen. These few are the sheep. Jesus, the King says to these few: 'Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. Clearly these were under the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus which made them free from the law of sin and death. This Spirit giveth truth, eternal life and inheritance of the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world
Clearly for the chosen few, the law of sin and death does not exist. For if the law of sin and death existed for them they would not escape. All sin and fall short of the glory of God. Therefore they would be sent into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.
However sheep are not sent into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. They inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. Therefore it is not that they do not do the things that are sinful under the law of sin and death. It is that the law of sin and death does not apply to sheep. Sin is not imputed to them.
The law of sin and death is still totally intact for unbelievers. And the very great majority of those called to Christianity are unbelievers.
However the law of sin and death is done away with for Christians/believers:
Romans: 3 KJV N.T.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets
The above applies only to believers/Christians. They are sheep.
Acts: 13 King James Version (KJV)
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Get the truth, now before to late is your cry. The law of sin and death is still alive and applicable. Anyone who esteem, use, promote and/or invoke the law of sin and death is under the law of sin and death. They are unbelievers. They will inevitably sin and fall short of the glory of God. However since they esteem, use, promote and/or invoke the law of sin and death sin is imputed to them. On judgment day Jesus will say to them: Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.
The above will happen to those people simply because they did not embrace and practice their God given freedom, liberty and justification to transgress Moses law. They did not acquire or develop the require faith/belief in the Spirit, 'not seen' and eternal, Son of God Lord Jesus. They did not have faith/belief that under the Spirit, 'not seen' and eternal, Son of God Lord Jesus they have God given freedom, liberty and justification to transgress Moses law.
They remain in fear and could not embrace and practice freedom, liberty and justification to transgress Moses law, under the the Spirit, 'not seen' and eternal, Son of God Lord Jesus. Fear is the total absence of God/Love.
God is Love. The presence of fear is the absence of God:
1 John: 4 KJV N.T.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love/God.
The proof that one is a Christian/believer is that one embraces and practices one's God given freedom, liberty and justification to transgress Moses law, under urging of love, i.e. under the Spirit, 'not seen' and eternal, Son of God Lord Jesus. And one does so without reservation or fear.
. . . the above is the only way to bring forth fruits onto God and so, inherit God's kingdom of heaven.
Matthews: 21 KJV N.T.
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Only those who serve in the newness of spirit (i.e. those who are led by love) bring forth fruit onto God (God is Love):
Romans: 7 KJV N.T.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit (i.e. serve love), and not in the oldness of the letter (i.e. not serve Moses law).
Christianity, the life of believers, is not simply about parroting that 'I am not under Moses law of sin and death'. It is about knowing this as a living reality and actually living the reality:
The proof that one is a Christian/believer is that one embraces and practices one's God given freedom, liberty and justification to transgress Moses law, under urging of love, i.e. under the Spirit, 'not seen' and eternal, Son of God Lord Jesus. And one does so without reservation or fear.
This is the only way, that on judgment day, the King, Lord Jesus will say to you: Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
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All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans: 3 KJV N.T.
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
The above confirms that all (everyone) sin and fall short of the glory of God.
Therefore how come, at judgment, some people are told: Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
And others are told: Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:.
Clearly all are not saved.
Clearly all have sin however, sin is not imputed (committed) when there is no law.
Clearly those who believe in Jesus (believers) have God given justification to transgress the law of sin and death and get no sin. The law of sin and death is 'done away with for 'believers'. On judgment day, 'believers' are told: Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Acts: 13 King James Version (KJV)
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
However, for unbelievers the law of sin and death is not 'done away with' but very alive, kicking and applicable. On judgment day, 'unbelievers' are told: Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
Every one need to know that salvation and deliverance into heaven is not a done deal:
Fact is both, 'the law of sin and death' and 'the law of enlightenment and life' exist simultaneously. And each person is given free will to choose one.
Also the end of both are different and well disclosed, in the KJV N.T.. One leads to hell, the other to heaven, up to this day. This disclosure is done for the edification of the authentic/genuine seeker of truth and Truth.
Those who come to the KJV N.T. with preconceived intellectual ideas and prejudices are (self) denied 'intuitive' access to truth and Truth. They are 'the dead' who are burying their own kind, regularly and daily.
All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans: 3 KJV N.T.
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
The above confirms that all (everyone) sin and fall short of the glory of God.
Therefore how come, at judgment, some people are told: Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
And others are told: Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:.
Clearly all are not saved.
| The above come from: Matthews: 25 KJV N.T. 31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: |
Clearly all have sin however, sin is not imputed (committed) when there is no law.
Clearly those who believe in Jesus (believers) have God given justification to transgress the law of sin and death and get no sin. The law of sin and death is 'done away with for 'believers'. On judgment day, 'believers' are told: Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Acts: 13 King James Version (KJV)
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
However, for unbelievers the law of sin and death is not 'done away with' but very alive, kicking and applicable. On judgment day, 'unbelievers' are told: Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
Ben Masada's statement above is not correct. It is very dangerously misleading. His statement corruptly and dangerously mislead 'unbelievers' into a false and terminal 'dead' sense of security. Ben Masada falsely led all to believe that they are saved and delivered and the fact is only a few make it, only a few are chosen. Only 'believers make it.
Every one need to know that salvation and deliverance into heaven is not a done deal:
Fact is both, 'the law of sin and death' and 'the law of enlightenment and life' exist simultaneously. And each person is given free will to choose one.
Also the end of both are different and well disclosed, in the KJV N.T.. One leads to hell, the other to heaven, up to this day. This disclosure is done for the edification of the authentic/genuine seeker of truth and Truth.
Those who come to the KJV N.T. with preconceived intellectual ideas and prejudices are (self) denied 'intuitive' access to truth and Truth. They are 'the dead' who are burying their own kind, regularly and daily.
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Be charitable. Stop misleading innocent aspiring Christians.
Be charitable. Stop misleading innocent aspiring Christians.
1 Corinthians: 15 KJV N.T.
35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
Now, (since 2000 odd years ago) the Lord is that Spirit, i.e. the Spirit, 'not seen' and eternal Son of God Lord Jesus. The Lord is not the physical, 'seen' and temporal son of man Jesus:
2 Corinthians: 3 King James Version (KJV)
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
The Jesus who died on the cross is not lord. He was a man from earth, earthly.
1 Corinthians: 15 KJV N.T.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy
1 Corinthians: 15 KJV N.T.
47 the second man is the Lord from heaven
Be charitable. Stop misleading innocent aspiring Christians with false corrupt ideas and beliefs. A billion strong traditional Christians are not esteeming and worshiping the Lord who is the Spirit, 'not seen' and eternal, Son of God, Jesus. Instead they are esteeming and worshiping the physical, 'seen' and temporal, son of man Jesus who is not lord.
Please . . . don't you want to help them?
2 Corinthians: 3 King James Version (KJV)
17 Now (since 2000 odd years ago) the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
The billion strong traditional Christians are called to be Christians. However they are misled. They err and are not chosen, because they do not know:
Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Act: 13 KJV N.T.
39 And by him all that believe (Christians/Believers) are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
However many are called but few chosen because the very great majority fear esteeming and practicing their God given freedom, liberty and justification to transgress Moses' law so that they can serve freely in the newness of spirit/love. Therefore they bring forth only fruits onto death and no fruits onto God:
Romans: 7 KJV N.T.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Fact is:
Matthews: 21 KJV N.T.
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof (i.e. fruits onto God).
It is on the basis of the above that on judgment day, the King, Jesus say:
- to one set: Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world (these are the chosen).
- And to another set: Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels (these are the 'not chosen')
Fact is, on your judgment day, in order for Jesus to say to you: "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world", you have to had esteemed and actually practiced your God given freedom, liberty and justification to transgress Moses law so as to have served in the newness of spirit/love. This is only way that you would have brought forth only fruits onto God and so now be entitled to inherit God's kingdom of heaven.
Simple lip service does not count. Simply parroting that you are not under Moses law counts for nothing. That only makes for closet esteem-ers, users and promoters of Moses law.
Be charitable. Stop misleading innocent aspiring Christians.
1 Corinthians: 15 KJV N.T.
35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
Now, (since 2000 odd years ago) the Lord is that Spirit, i.e. the Spirit, 'not seen' and eternal Son of God Lord Jesus. The Lord is not the physical, 'seen' and temporal son of man Jesus:
2 Corinthians: 3 King James Version (KJV)
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
The Jesus who died on the cross is not lord. He was a man from earth, earthly.
1 Corinthians: 15 KJV N.T.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy
1 Corinthians: 15 KJV N.T.
47 the second man is the Lord from heaven
Be charitable. Stop misleading innocent aspiring Christians with false corrupt ideas and beliefs. A billion strong traditional Christians are not esteeming and worshiping the Lord who is the Spirit, 'not seen' and eternal, Son of God, Jesus. Instead they are esteeming and worshiping the physical, 'seen' and temporal, son of man Jesus who is not lord.
Please . . . don't you want to help them?
2 Corinthians: 3 King James Version (KJV)
17 Now (since 2000 odd years ago) the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
The billion strong traditional Christians are called to be Christians. However they are misled. They err and are not chosen, because they do not know:
Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Act: 13 KJV N.T.
39 And by him all that believe (Christians/Believers) are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
However many are called but few chosen because the very great majority fear esteeming and practicing their God given freedom, liberty and justification to transgress Moses' law so that they can serve freely in the newness of spirit/love. Therefore they bring forth only fruits onto death and no fruits onto God:
Romans: 7 KJV N.T.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Fact is:
Matthews: 21 KJV N.T.
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof (i.e. fruits onto God).
It is on the basis of the above that on judgment day, the King, Jesus say:
- to one set: Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world (these are the chosen).
- And to another set: Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels (these are the 'not chosen')
Fact is, on your judgment day, in order for Jesus to say to you: "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world", you have to had esteemed and actually practiced your God given freedom, liberty and justification to transgress Moses law so as to have served in the newness of spirit/love. This is only way that you would have brought forth only fruits onto God and so now be entitled to inherit God's kingdom of heaven.
Simple lip service does not count. Simply parroting that you are not under Moses law counts for nothing. That only makes for closet esteem-ers, users and promoters of Moses law.
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Elia
Well-known member
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
Lawless men abhor the laws of God.
Righteous men love the law of God:
Do not hide Your commandments from me.
My soul breaks with longing
For Your judgments at all times.
Psalm 119:20
Teach me, O Y-H-W-H, the way of Your statutes,
And I shall keep it to the end.
Give me understanding, and I shall keep Your law;
Indeed, I shall observe it with my whole heart.
Make me walk in the path of Your commandments,
For I delight in it.
Psalm 119:33-35
For I have hoped in Your ordinances.
So shall I keep Your law continually,
Forever and ever.
And I will walk at liberty,
For I seek Your precepts.
I will speak of Your testimonies also before kings,
And will not be ashamed.
And I will delight myself in Your commandments,
Which I love.
My hands also I will lift up to Your commandments,
Which I love,
And I will meditate on Your statutes.
Psalm 119:43-48
Teach me Your statutes.
The proud have forged a lie against me,
But I will keep Your precepts with my whole heart.
Their heart is as fat as grease,
But I delight in Your law.
It is good for me that I have been afflicted,
That I may learn Your statutes.
The law of Your mouth is better to me
Than thousands of coins of gold and silver.
Psalm 119:68-72
I know, O Y-H-W-H, that Your judgments are right,
And that in faithfulness You have afflicted me.
76 Let, I pray, Your merciful kindness be for my comfort,
According to Your word to Your servant.
77 Let Your tender mercies come to me, that I may live;
For Your law is my delight.
Psalm 119:75-77
Oh, how I love Your law!
It is my meditation all the day.
98 You, through Your commandments, make me wiser than my enemies;
For they are ever with me.
99 I have more understanding than all my teachers,
For Your testimonies are my meditation.
100 I understand more than the ancients,
Because I keep Your precepts.
101 I have restrained my feet from every evil way,
That I may keep Your word.
102 I have not departed from Your judgments,
For You Yourself have taught me.
103 How sweet are Your words to my taste,
Sweeter than honey to my mouth!
104 Through Your precepts I get understanding;
Therefore I hate every false way.
Psalm 119:97-104
Revive me, O Y-H-W-H, according to Your word.
Accept, I pray, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O Lord,
And teach me Your judgments.
My life is continually in my hand,
Yet I do not forget Your law.
The wicked have laid a snare for me,
Yet I have not strayed from Your precepts.
Your testimonies I have taken as a heritage forever,
For they are the rejoicing of my heart.
I have inclined my heart to perform Your statutes
Forever, to the very end.
I hate the double-minded, but I love Your law.
You are my hiding place and my shield;
I hope in Your word.
Depart from me, you evildoers,
For I will keep the commandments of my God!
Uphold me according to Your word, that I may live;
And do not let me be ashamed of my hope.
Hold me up, and I shall be safe,
And I shall observe Your statutes continually.
You reject all those who stray from Your statutes,
For their deceit is falsehood.
Psalm 119:107-118
For they (the Christians) have regarded Your law as void.
Therefore I love Your commandments
More than gold, yes, than fine gold!
Therefore all Your precepts concerning all things
I consider to be right;
I hate every false way.
Psalm 119:126-128
I opened my mouth and panted,
For I longed for Your commandments.
Psalm 119:31
Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness,
And Your law is truth.
143 Trouble and anguish have overtaken me,
Yet Your commandments are my delights.
Psalm 119:142-143
Princes persecute me without a cause,
But my heart stands in awe of Your word.
I rejoice at Your word
As one who finds great treasure.
I hate and abhor lying,
But I love Your law.
Psalm 119:161-163
"One who turns away his ear from hearing the law,even his prayer is an abomination."
Prov 28:9
JonahofAkron
New member
So, again, He gave us something broken? Something cursed?
Sent from my SM-N910T using TheologyOnline mobile app
Ben Masada
New member
And... worse than to give us something broken and cursed, why would he continue teaching us that, to achieve salvation, we must listen to "Moses" aka the Law? As if by observing the curse of the Law we will achieve salvation? As you can see, it doesn't make any sense even to talk about it!