ECT Did the Body of Christ Really Begin in Acts 2?

[heir]

Yes! That is what Peter, James, and John preached as well as Paul, who came later! They knew because they were with Jesus on the mount when He was transfigured. You need to read these fellows. Why not begin with 1John 1 and 2? . . if you are teachable that is.

1 John is written in the Great Trib context to those who have not all of their sins forgiven yet (1 John 1:9 KJV) and who have an unction and an anointing and need not any man teach them!

1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

...

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.


That's not the BoC! Get saved and get more than a clue (2 Timothy 2:15 KJV)!

 

[heir]

Somehow the madness will try to wiggle around this.
"But if some of the branches were broken off, and you though a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree." Romans 11:17

Gentiles grafted into Israel. God's Sons and daughters.

That's not us. First notice the "wert".

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

It's past tense. They already had a position in the olive tree and yet needed to hear the gospel of Christ that they may be established! It's like you all just ripped out the entire opening to the Roman letter (or have never even read it)!

Members of the Body of Christ are baptized by one Spirit into one Body (1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV). We are not graffed in to anything!

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

That's not us. First notice the "wert".

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

It's past tense. They already had a position in the olive tree and yet needed to hear the gospel of Christ that they may be established! It's like you all just ripped out the entire opening to the Roman letter (or have never even read it)!

Members of the Body of Christ are baptized by one Spirit into one Body (1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV). We are not graffed in to anything!

You izz trippin'.

These were not Gentile proselytes to Judaism.

These folks were Christ believers, who by being such, became fellow citizens of God's Israel.


Some of the citizens of natural Israel got broken off.

Paul said if they didnt remain in unbelief they could be graffed back in.

These Gentile believers could also get snipped for high mindedness.

That's BOC members Heir.

You would do well to understand that he didn't tell them guys that they couldn't be graffed back in.

Tribulation is a good thing, Paul and the 12 were a fulfillment of prophecy.

They as well as those they preached to were set up as a spectacle for our learning.

Paul's gone, there's nobody here to pick up the lack of suffering.

Yer a citizen of God's Israel Heir.

Do you know the king?

Knowing Him is Salvation.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

That's not us. First notice the "wert".

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

It's past tense. They already had a position in the olive tree and yet needed to hear the gospel of Christ that they may be established! It's like you all just ripped out the entire opening to the Roman letter (or have never even read it)!

Members of the Body of Christ are baptized by one Spirit into one Body (1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV). We are not graffed in to anything!

I've read it a ton.
You mention the beginning of Romans. Great. Lets look at it.

No partiality.
"But glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality." Romans 2:10-11

Jews by circumcision of the heart by the Spirit.
"For no none is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man, but from God." Romans 2:28-29

Jews are not better off.
"What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks are under sin." Romans 3:9

There is no distinction.
"The righteouesness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Romans 3:22-23

All justified by faith and grace.
"Since God is one--who justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised by faith." Romans 3:30

You are right there is one Spiritual body of Christ, that began at Pentecost.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

You izz trippin'.

These were not Gentile proselytes to Judaism.

These folks were Christ believers, who by being such, became fellow citizens of God's Israel.


Some of the citizens of natural Israel got broken off.

Paul said if they didnt remain in unbelief they could be graffed back in.

These Gentile believers could also get snipped for high mindedness.

That's BOC members Heir.

You would do well to understand that he didn't tell them guys that they couldn't be graffed back in.

Tribulation is a good thing, Paul and the 12 were a fulfillment of prophecy.

They as well as those they preached to were set up as a spectacle for our learning.

Paul's gone, there's nobody here to pick up the lack of suffering.

Yer a citizen of God's Israel Heir.

Do you know the king?

Knowing Him is Salvation.

Exactly!

 

[WonderfulLordJesus]

The Body of Christ began in John 20:22. Their first meeting, open to all members, took place in Acts 2 per the instructions of Jesus.

Interesting catch. The usual thinking is Pentecost began the born again body of Christ, because the Lord Jesus said He would send the Comforter, upon His ascension back to heaven. But, indeed, the Lord Jesus did commend the Holy Spirit to, at least, His apostles in the room that day. Interesting thought to consider, that goes to affirmation of the power of God in the Lord Jesus. Thanks!

Just had an afterthought. Thomas' confession that followed was "My Lord and my God". It seems such a powerful confession could only be made through the Holy Spirit

 

[heir]

You izz trippin'.

These were not Gentile proselytes to Judaism.

Romans 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,


IOW: proselyte,

Romans 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.


The Romans were Gentiles (Romans 11:13 KJV) that were partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;


Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

And that, before being established into the BoC by Paul's gospel.

That's BOC members Heir.

I have every reason to believe the Romans became mebers of the BoC, but they weren't at the writing of the letter. If they were, there could have been no "cut off" language concerning them nor the need to write that they be established by Paul's gospel in the first place. If anyone is "trippin" it's you!

 

[Cross Reference]

Interesting catch. The usual thinking is Pentecost began the born again body of Christ, because the Lord Jesus said He would send the Comforter, upon His ascension back to heaven. But, indeed, the Lord Jesus did commend the Holy Spirit to, at least, His apostles in the room that day. Interesting thought to consider, that goes to affirmation of the power of God in the Lord Jesus. Thanks!

Thank you. It is about time someone picked up on that....

Just had an afterthought. Thomas' confession that followed was "My Lord and my God". It seems such a powerful confession could only be made through the Holy Spirit

Peter said as much to Jesus, about Him, way before that and not by "flesh and blood" did he say it. What do you think that might say concerning what one might expect to receive from God, one who sincerely wants to "know" Him _______ AFTER he is born again?

Most on these Christian forums would ridicule the notion, saying he would just be "working for his salvation". Crazy, that.

 

[heir]

I've read it a ton.
You mention the beginning of Romans. Great. Lets look at it.

Now why did you go and skip the opening which shows who the Romans were, that they had "a faith (not a mutual faith of Paul and them) and their need to be established by Paul's gospel (the gospel of Christ)? What an odd thing to do for someone who wants it to appear as though they want us all to "look at it".


Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

Romans 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Romans 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Romans 1:6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

Romans 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Romans 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

Romans 1:10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.

Romans 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;

Romans 1:12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.

Romans 1:13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.

Romans 1:14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.

Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.


They weren't saved at the writing of the Roman letter. That is why Paul wrote to them to establish them with the gospel of Christ! There's no need to do that if they are already saved. It shoots your whole grafting in to the ground as Paul is telling them of the position they held BEFORE THEY WERE SAVED ("wert graffed in"). It also explain s how it is that they were in jeopardy of being cut off (which is impossible for members of the BoC).

 

[tetelestai]

You are right there is one Spiritual body of Christ, that began at Pentecost.

That's correct.

heir and the other MADists have no explanation for the Romans.

They claim the Romans were not in the BOC until Paul preached to them.

This premise of theirs causes a big problem for MAD.

MAD claims there were two groups of people (kingdom believers & body believers).

So, if the Romans were not part of the "body" program, and they were saved and had a great faith, then according to MAD, that would put the Romans in the "kingdom" program.

However, MAD teaches that the people in the "kingdom" program didn't merge into the "body" program. MAD teaches that these "kingdom" people died out, and will pick back up again when Jesus returns.

So, according to MAD, what group were these Romans in before they somehow became part of the "body" program?

MAD has no answer for it.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

That's correct.

heir and the other MADists have no explanation for the Romans.

They claim the Romans were not in the BOC until Paul preached to them.

This premise of theirs causes a big problem for MAD.

MAD claims there were two groups of people (kingdom believers & body believers).

So, if the Romans were not part of the "body" program, and they were saved and had a great faith, then according to MAD, that would put the Romans in the "kingdom" program.

However, MAD teaches that the people in the "kingdom" program didn't merge into the "body" program. MAD teaches that these "kingdom" people died out, and will pick back up again when Jesus returns.

So, according to MAD, what group were these Romans in before they somehow became part of the "body" program?

MAD has no answer for it.

Yes, they've twisted themselves into quite the corner there.

Tribulation worketh patience.

In our patience we possess our souls.


Pre tribbers donnot have the ability to wait patiently for wisdom from the only place it can come.

Therefore they do not possess their souls.

All men are naturally impatient.

That's why they get caught up in the false teachings of men.

 

[Danoh]

That's correct.

heir and the other MADists have no explanation for the Romans.

They claim the Romans were not in the BOC until Paul preached to them.

This premise of theirs causes a big problem for MAD.

MAD claims there were two groups of people (kingdom believers & body believers).

So, if the Romans were not part of the "body" program, and they were saved and had a great faith, then according to MAD, that would put the Romans in the "kingdom" program.

However, MAD teaches that the people in the "kingdom" program didn't merge into the "body" program. MAD teaches that these "kingdom" people died out, and will pick back up again when Jesus returns.

So, according to MAD, what group were these Romans in before they somehow became part of the "body" program?

MAD has no answer for it.

I'll say it again, Tel, within ANY school of thought SOME will hold to an understanding on some things that others within that same school do NOT hold to.

Of course, you already know that; but it doesn't stop you from lumping all MADS together anyway.

Case in point, I hold that the Romans were in the Body before Paul wrote Romans. So does Jerry S. Others within MAD do not. At the same time, Jerry and I do not hold to a same understanding on other things.

I understand Rom. 2:17 to be referring to Jews, not proselytes. Not sure how he sees that. Others within MAD hold that Paul was referring to proselytes. And so it goes...

These kind of differences in understanding on one thing or another can be found within every school of thought out there.

Why that is is itself a subject for various schools of thought not only to differ and or agree on at some points , but for individuals within a same school to differ and or agree on, on some points as well.

You might want to keep that in mind, Tel.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

I have every reason to believe the Romans became mebers of the BoC, but they weren't at the writing of the letter.

Okay.

Why weren't they members of the body?

How is Paul's wanting to impart a spiritual gift to strengthen their confidence of being in Christ show they weren't in Him?

 

[heir]

Okay.

Why weren't they members of the body?

How could they be? They had never heard the gospel of Christ!

Romans 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;

Romans 1:12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.

Romans 1:13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.

Romans 1:14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.

Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

 

[Danoh]

Yes, they've twisted themselves into quite the corner there.

Tribulation worketh patience.

In our patience we possess our souls.


Pre tribbers donnot have the ability to wait patiently for wisdom from the only place it can come.

Therefore they do not possess their souls.

All men are naturally impatient.

That's why they get caught up in the false teachings of men.

By the same thought, one can be patient all one wants to be. But if their "one size fits all" is off, it just goes to show that patience itself as some kind of a "one size fits all" solution is unsound.

Case in point, picture the old documentary in which the famously patient Mother Teresa is patiently telling various Brahmins, and what have you, that all paths lead to God.

 

[Ktoyou]

That's correct.

heir and the other MADists have no explanation for the Romans.

They claim the Romans were not in the BOC until Paul preached to them.

This premise of theirs causes a big problem for MAD.

MAD claims there were two groups of people (kingdom believers & body believers).

So, if the Romans were not part of the "body" program, and they were saved and had a great faith, then according to MAD, that would put the Romans in the "kingdom" program.

However, MAD teaches that the people in the "kingdom" program didn't merge into the "body" program. MAD teaches that these "kingdom" people died out, and will pick back up again when Jesus returns.

So, according to MAD, what group were these Romans in before they somehow became part of the "body" program?

MAD has no answer for it.

This is not the true teachings of MAD.

 

[tetelestai]

This is not the true teachings of MAD.

It's what heir teaches.

heir claims the Romans were NOT in the BOC before Paul preached to them.

You will notice that heir not only claims the Romans were not in the BOC before Paul, heir also claims the Romans weren't in the "kingdom" program either.

heir has absolutely no explanation for what group the Romans were in before they allegedly entered into the "body" group after Paul preached to them.

 

[tetelestai]

How could they be? They had never heard the gospel of Christ!

Then what group were they in heir?

Were they in the alleged "kingdom" program?

 

[tetelestai]

Case in point, I hold that the Romans were in the Body before Paul wrote Romans. So does Jerry S. Others within MAD do not.

Okay Danoh.

I acknowledge that you and some MADists hold that the Romans were in the BOC before Paul.

heir, STP, and other MADists on TOL claim they were not.

My post was directed to heir claiming they were not.

I think it's very telling that heir is claiming they weren't in the BOC, but at the same time won't tell anyone what group the Romans were in.

She's just making herself look foolish.

 

[Danoh]

It's what heir teaches.

heir claims the Romans were NOT in the BOC before Paul preached to them.

You will notice that heir not only claims the Romans were not in the BOC before Paul, heir also claims the Romans weren't in the "kingdom" program either.

heir has absolutely no explanation for what group the Romans were in before they allegedly entered into the "body" group after Paul preached to them.

No, as with their basis; their explanation differs from that of others. Its NOT that they do not have one. Get your facts straight.