ECT Did the Body of Christ Really Begin in Acts 2?

Danoh

New member
Yes, I see that. And your specific point is what?

Lol I'm beginning to feel I'm your pet project.

My point, sister, is that those who deny the assertion on that link in the OP will one day have to find loss of reward within the inheritance Paul's form of sound words had been meant to build them up unto within their inward man, in the here and now.

The overall perspective the material in that link is asserting is the means of properly extracting Paul's form of sound words from the passages.

To have used the passages to have built up anything other than what had been intended through them will meet one day, with loss of reward within the inheritance.

One person responded to all this elsewhere with "well, I'll just be glad I got it."

That person missed the point...
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Christ is the Head

Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Paul, the first member

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

What about Barnabus.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Those few souls on here really wanting an answer to the above question might strongly consider reading the following article in its entirety.

Gee, what a shocker, an article by J.C. O'Hair from the Berean Bible Society that advocates MAD.

Got any Cornelius Stam articles from the Berean Bible Society?
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Wrong. The 11 were as proven to be the fact when reading John 20:22.
You make a lot of mistakes and here is no different. There were 12 apostles to Israel (Matthew 10:1-2 KJV)
It is not debatable. either see it and except it or too bad.
Why don't you see that you are wrong as you are on TOL all the time?
You have bought into another gospel.
:chuckle: That's ridiculous to say to someone who believes the gospel Paul preached unto us (Galatians 1:8-12 KJV).

In me" Yes! Paul was the first to undergo physical persecutions unlike the others and on a grander scale, that we know of.. However, that is not to say they didn't as well simply because there is very little written of their accounts, Peter being the exception.. . . which should convince you, the message was the same.
Nope. In Paul first Jesus Christ shewed forth all longsuffering for a pattern to them which should thereafter believe on Christ to life everlasting (1 Timothy 1:16 KJV). There's is no need to change why it is that Paul wrote that he was first, but there you go doing it.

And as to suffering: The 12 suffered for their message, but unto the house of Israel (Matthew 10:5-6 KJV) while Paul suffered for Christ's Body's sake (Colossians 1:24-27 KJV).
 

Lazy afternoon

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LIFETIME MEMBER
And as to suffering: The 12 suffered for their message, but unto the house of Israel (Matthew 10:5-6 KJV) while Paul suffered for Christ's Body's sake (Colossians 1:24-27 KJV).



1Pe 2:20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
 

Cross Reference

New member
No, we are the church, the Body of Christ. It is a living organism not a religious organization.

Yes! That is what Peter, James, and John preached as well as Paul, who came later! They knew because they were with Jesus on the mount when He was transfigured. You need to read these fellows. Why not begin with 1John 1 and 2? . . if you are teachable that is.
 

Jamie Gigliotti

New member
Jesus was a Jew.

If Jesus is the head, and the church is His body, wouldn't that mean the body is Jewish?

How could the head be Jewish, but not the body?

Somehow the madness will try to wiggle around this.
"But if some of the branches were broken off, and you though a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree." Romans 11:17

Gentiles grafted into Israel. God's Sons and daughters.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Somehow the madness will try to wiggle around this.
"But if some of the branches were broken off, and you though a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree." Romans 11:17

Gentiles grafted into Israel. God's Sons and daughters.

They always avoid this.

I have asked them many times, and they never reply.

Who is the olive tree?

Who are the branches broken off?

Who are the wild branches grafted in?
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Somehow the madness will try to wiggle around this.
"But if some of the branches were broken off, and you though a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree." Romans 11:17

Gentiles grafted into Israel. God's Sons and daughters.

It can not be any other way.

Gentiles and Jews in the Israel of God, the elect of God.

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The lesson concerning Isaac is that the children of the flesh are NOT the children of God, but the lesson is NOT that the children of the flesh of Isaac are the children of God.

LA
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Yes! That is what Peter, James, and John preached as well as Paul, who came later! They knew because they were with Jesus on the mount when He was transfigured. You need to read these fellows. Why not begin with 1John 1 and 2? . . if you are teachable that is.


Perhaps, she objects to the false belief systems that you and others
around TOL preach/teach? She doesn't wish to learn from the ignorant.
I don't blame her.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
The Body of Christ didn't become known until the Ascended Christ Jesus
met Saul/Paul on the road to Damascus. Paul was sent, to where he was
to learn what was next. Ultimately, Paul was sent to be the Apostle to the
gentiles. Whereas, Peter and the rest were to continue to preach the
Kingdom Message to the Jews.

Today, we, both Jew and gentile alike have one Gospel. (The Grace Gospel;
Paul's Gospel) It's the only Gospel for today in this Dispensation of Grace.
 

Danoh

New member
It can not be any other way.

Gentiles and Jews in the Israel of God, the elect of God.

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The lesson concerning Isaac is that the children of the flesh are NOT the children of God, but the lesson is NOT that the children of the flesh of Isaac are the children of God.

LA

Nope.

The issue in Romans 9-11 is the status of the nation Israel before God.

The example in Isaac is that he had been the Spirit's doing.

In turn, his son Jacob (later named Israel) was of Isaac's flesh.

BUT Jacob had ALSO walked after God. Just as Abraham and Isaac had.

The issue Paul is addressing concerns the nation Israel.

One aspect of this issue being how that; just because they had been born of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, that alone meant nothing - they had to be of those three as those three had been in their heart that their praise before God (acceptance before God) be in accordance with His standard, not theirs, just as Isaac had been the result of God's doing, but Ishmael had been the result of Abraham's doing.

Case in point; it was AFTER Abraham turned to his own strength counter to God's promise that He would give him a seed (Isaac) and Ishmael was born; the result of Abraham's having relied on his own strength ("confidence in the flesh") that God gave Abraham the ritual of circumcision.

As a reminder he was to have no confidence in his own strength, that man is dead in his flesh, incapable of producing anything in his own strength acceptable before God.

The issue in the Isaac example Paul brings up is that being an Israelite; of the PHYSICAL seed of Isaac in Jacob, was not all there was; only those of his PHYSICAL seed who ALSO had his heart toward God would be counted as Isaac's true seed in the sight of God.

Paul is not repeating the error that tradition has made of the above, rather, he is reiterating where UNBELIEVING Israel had screwed up as to THEIR status before God, just as the Lord had related to them in John 8.

John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

Twist these things how bias might - it remains clear that Romans 9-11 are addressing the issue "what of the nation Israel's SPIRITUAL status before God?"
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Nope.

The issue in Romans 9-11 is the status of the nation Israel before God.

The example in Isaac is that he had been the Spirit's doing.

In turn, his son Jacob (later named Israel) was of Isaac's flesh.

BUT Jacob had ALSO walked after God. Just as Abraham and Isaac had.

The issue Paul is addressing concerns the nation Israel.

One aspect of this issue being how that; just because they had been born of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, that alone meant nothing - they had to be of those three as those three had been in their heart that their praise before God (acceptance before God) be in accordance with His standard, not theirs, just as Isaac had been the result of God's doing, but Ishmael had been the result of Abraham's doing.

Case in point; it was AFTER Abraham turned to his own strength counter to God's promise that He would give him a seed (Isaac) and Ishmael was born; the result of Abraham's having relied on his own strength ("confidence in the flesh") that God gave Abraham the ritual of circumcision.

No. The circumcision was no ritual, and was given because of his faith, not because Abraham had relied on his own strength.

Gen 17:9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
Gen 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

As a reminder he was to have no confidence in his own strength, that man is dead in his flesh, incapable of producing anything in his own strength acceptable before God.

Again no, that is wrong.

God made a covenant with Abraham to bless his offspring who Abraham was told to teach the faith to.

Gen 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.


Christs death bought this covenant to an end forever.

The issue in the Isaac example Paul brings up is that being an Israelite; of the PHYSICAL seed of Isaac in Jacob, was not all there was; only those of his PHYSICAL seed who ALSO had his heart toward God would be counted as Isaac's true seed in the sight of God.

Paul is not repeating the error that tradition has made of the above, rather, he is reiterating where UNBELIEVING Israel had screwed up as to THEIR status before God, just as the Lord had related to them in John 8.

John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

Twist these things how bias might - it remains clear that Romans 9-11 are addressing the issue "what of the nation Israel's SPIRITUAL status before God?"

No.

When Christ died the covenant God made with Abraham to bless his flesh was finished.

There are many verses showing that God had fulfilled all the promises God had made to Abrahams flesh.

Neh 9:7 Thou art the LORD the God, who didst choose Abram, and broughtest him forth out of Ur of the Chaldees, and gavest him the name of Abraham;
Neh 9:8 And foundest his heart faithful before thee, and madest a covenant with him to give the land of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Jebusites, and the Girgashites, to give it, I say, to his seed, and hast performed thy words; for thou art righteous:

Neh 9:23 Their children also multipliedst thou as the stars of heaven, and broughtest them into the land, concerning which thou hadst promised to their fathers, that they should go in to possess it.
Neh 9:24 So the children went in and possessed the land, and thou subduedst before them the inhabitants of the land, the Canaanites, and gavest them into their hands, with their kings, and the people of the land, that they might do with them as they would.
Neh 9:25 And they took strong cities, and a fat land, and possessed houses full of all goods, wells digged, vineyards, and oliveyards, and fruit trees in abundance: so they did eat, and were filled, and became fat, and delighted themselves in thy great goodness.

Paul makes all this clear in Galations , and never did he teach that one must be only of the flesh of Abraham to be in the Israel of God.

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

If you read Gen ch 17 correctly then you will see the two covenants not the one, and the second one is now dead forever.

LA
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
1Pe 2:20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
Peter is not speaking to the Body of Christ

Matthew 10:5-6 KJV

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
 
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