ECT Classical Original Sin Doctrine Vs. Biblical Origonal Sin Doctrine (A Multi OP Study)

daqq

Well-known member
Since when does the devil know how to keep it to just one lie? Does he ever tell the truth?

I'd sure like to see an example of when he did that.

The scripture says what it says and it is posted above in Reply#47.
You either believe what the scripture says or you make up your own way.
 

daqq

Well-known member
Shall we eat of your fruit and be like God Daqq? Who's Jesus Daqq? Is He God? What did atonement accomplish? Who is our atonement? What does this... 1 Co. 15:55f and Heb 2:14 mean Daqq?

Shall we trade the Living Bread for Stones of Law that only the Good Shepherd is GOOD by?

Will you teach us how to be like God Daqq?

You cannot even stay on your own topic in your own thread? Since when did your topic switch to me? See that is the problem when you and yours have no argument: you always revert to personal insults and insinuations. All of your words are merely fodder to deflect from the fact that your entire premise is shown to be false right from the scripture in Genesis 3. Apparently the only choice a brood of vipers has at this point is to hiss, snap, lash out, and try to bite. So then, since your premise is now junk, have a nice thread.
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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You cannot even stay on your own topic in your own thread? Since when did your topic switch to me? See that is the problem when you and yours have no argument: you always revert to personal insults and insinuations. All of your words are merely fodder to deflect from the fact that your entire premise is shown to be false right from the scripture in Genesis 3. Apparently the only choice a brood of vipers has at this point is to hiss, snap, lash out, and try to bite. So then, since your premise is now junk, have a nice thread.

It angers you that the idea of Is. 14:14 and Gen. 3:5 exposes Works based self exaltation. You are currently a living example of what happens when the UTTER Supremacy of Jesus our Lord, YHWH and Savior is "rejected".

You want to say the Word is the Law and that Jesus came to expound on the old covenant and put it higher in exaltation than He Himself.

You want to be judged by your flesh. This is the very point and it is a razor sharp blade that exposes flesh exalters to the core.

There is, was and forever will be only ONE that imbibed in "flesh" that is perfect and Righteous. It isn't any of us Daqq.

It's Jesus... the very Son, Logos, Presence of the Father, though He alone can "reveal" The Might Father ... (Is. 9:6)...

Luke 2:11 and Is. 43:11 !

It's either EXALT Him or Exalt Creation. That's it Daqq! Give it up or become cannon fodder to prove a point by your own poor "CHOICE".
 
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glorydaz

New member
You cannot even stay on your own topic in your own thread? Since when did your topic switch to me?

It switched to you when you came in like a bull elk in rut.
See that is the problem when you and yours have no argument: you always revert to personal insults and insinuations.

Hey, are you one of Danoh's socks? :think:

All of your words are merely fodder to deflect from the fact that your entire premise is shown to be false right from the scripture in Genesis 3. Apparently the only choice a brood of vipers has at this point is to hiss, snap, lash out, and try to bite. So then, since your premise is now junk, have a nice thread.

Oh, you flounce off in a snit.....at least you won't have to answer when the devil ever tells two truths out of three statements.
 

glorydaz

New member
The scripture says what it says and it is posted above in Reply#47.
You either believe what the scripture says or you make up your own way.

I noticed your error the second I read it. The devil is the master of lies. Clearly, you just believed two of his lies because you are nearly as gullible as Eve was.

Hint: A half truth is a full lie.
 

daqq

Well-known member
It angers you that the idea of Is. 14:14 and Gen. 3:5 exposes Works based self exaltation. You are currently a living example of what happens when the UTTER Supremacy of Jesus our Lord, YHWH and Savior is "rejected".

You want to say the Word is the Law and that Jesus came to expound on the old covenant and put it higher in exaltation than He Himself.

You want to be judged by your flesh. This is the very point and it is a razor sharp blade that exposes flesh exalters to the core.

There is, was and forever will be only ONE that imbibed in "flesh" that is perfect and Righteous. It isn't any of us Daqq.

It's Jesus... the very Son, Logos, Presence of the Father, though He alone can "reveal" The Might Father ... (Is. 9:6)...

Luke 2:11 and Is. 43:11 !

It's either EXALT Him or Exalt Creation. That's it Daqq! Give it up or become cannon fodder to prove a point by your own poor "CHOICE".

I offered to leave. Do you want me to continue posting in this thread? You need to stop denying the Testimony of the Messiah whom you claim to know and love. If you truly believed he is God then you would believe his words. But we've already been over all of this anyway; you are not correct in what you believe just because you say so. You must actually be able to show it by the scripture, and that means the scripture in its proper context(s), and yet you have never been able to do that. In fact your argument here, on the previous page, flatly denies the Testimony of Messiah in John 10:34, 35, 36, quoting from Psalm 82:6-7. Do you think you are not going to answer for denying that Testimony? And one of your comrades has already done the same thing because he believes the same exact lie that you do: and when the Testimony of the Master was shown to him, refuting him to his face, he had the same exact reaction that you have shown here. A brood of viperous offspring and Messiah deniers you are.
 

daqq

Well-known member
I noticed your error the second I read it. The devil is the master of lies. Clearly, you just believed two of his lies because you are nearly as gullible as Eve was.

Hint: A half truth is a full lie.

You are calling the scripture a lie and doing the same with the Testimony of Messiah who confirms what I have posted herein. Has the Logos-Word of God come to you? Do you claim to have the Word?
 

daqq

Well-known member
It switched to you when you came in like a bull elk in rut.

Hey, are you one of Danoh's socks? :think:

Oh, you flounce off in a snit.....at least you won't have to answer when the devil ever tells two truths out of three statements.

You have now fully opened up the door for yourself to be judged; and the more you judge, the more judgment is coming your way. That is not a threat but simply how it is going to be so long as I am here and so long as you continue to judge me. And just so you know, you will be judged with scripture, including the Testimony of Messiah, until the fullness of your hatred gives birth to what is truly in your heart. If you have not noticed; the Word has a way of doing that to vipers.
 

glorydaz

New member
You are calling the scripture a lie and doing the same with the Testimony of Messiah who confirms what I have posted herein. Has the Logos-Word of God come to you? Do you claim to have the Word?

No, I have no problem with Scripture. It's your interpretation of it that is off. You made the claim the devil spoke two truths and only one lie in the garden. I'm not sure how that thought could even pop into your brain.

John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.​
 

glorydaz

New member
You have now fully opened up the door for yourself to be judged; and the more you judge, the more judgment is coming your way. That is not a threat but simply how it is going to be so long as I am here and so long as you continue to judge me. And just so you know, you will be judged with scripture, including the Testimony of Messiah, until the fullness of your hatred gives birth to what is truly in your heart. If you have not noticed; the Word has a way of doing that to vipers.

Golly gee....I'm shaking in my boots. :chuckle:
 

glorydaz

New member
I offered to leave. Do you want me to continue posting in this thread? You need to stop denying the Testimony of the Messiah whom you claim to know and love. If you truly believed he is God then you would believe his words. But we've already been over all of this anyway; you are not correct in what you believe just because you say so. You must actually be able to show it by the scripture, and that means the scripture in its proper context(s), and yet you have never been able to do that. In fact your argument here, on the previous page, flatly denies the Testimony of Messiah in John 10:34, 35, 36, quoting from Psalm 82:6-7. Do you think you are not going to answer for denying that Testimony? And one of your comrades has already done the same thing because he believes the same exact lie that you do: and when the Testimony of the Master was shown to him, refuting him to his face, he had the same exact reaction that you have shown here. A brood of viperous offspring and Messiah deniers you are.

Psalms is talking about the Judges God set over Israel. The Judges were to be considered as speaking in the place of God. Do a little more research before you go any further.
 

daqq

Well-known member
No, I have no problem with Scripture. It's your interpretation of it that is off. You made the claim the devil spoke two truths and only one lie in the garden. I'm not sure how that thought could even pop into your brain.
John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

You have somewhat perverted what I said. The lie in the garden was not "Ye shall be as elohim" and that is clear from the passage. The lie was, "Ye shall not surely die", for indeed Adam died, just as he was forewarned. You simply chose not to believe what the passage says in plain English because it does not agree with your mindset and what you prefer to believe against what the scripture says.

Genesis 3:1-4 KJV
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.


There are three main things the serpent says in the above passage:

1) "Ye shall not surely die"
2) "Your eyes shall be opened"
3) "Ye shall be as elohim-gods, knowing good and evil"

Which one of these three things did not come to pass according to the passage?

Genesis 3:22 KJV
22 And the LORD God said, Behold,
the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Two of the three things spoken by the serpent came to pass according to the scripture:

1) "Your eyes shall be opened", (came to pass immediately in Gen 3:7).
2) "Ye shall be as elohim, knowing good and evil", (came to pass according to Gen 3:22).

Therefore which of the three things spoken by the serpent was "the lie"?

This was the lie spoken by the serpent in the garden, "Ye shall not surely die", but you also apparently do not actually care what the scripture says when it refutes your dogma, for these were already shown on the previous page of this very thread. You do not believe the scripture; plain and simple. It is not "my interpretation" but rather plainly what it says and teaches. Anyone without paradigm-mindset blinders can read and understand what it says.
 

daqq

Well-known member
Psalms is talking about the Judges God set over Israel. The Judges were to be considered as speaking in the place of God. Do a little more research before you go any further.

Sorry you were not able to follow what was said there, (but not surprising).
 

daqq

Well-known member
Psalms is talking about the Judges God set over Israel. The Judges were to be considered as speaking in the place of God. Do a little more research before you go any further.

John 10:34-35 KJV
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;


This is why I asked you if the Word of God has come to you; this is the same Logos, the Word. Do you not claim to have, know, and love the Word? Has the Word of God come to you? If you use 1Cor 15:1-4 to define your Gospel, as the MADists often do, then Paul in the same passage assumes that you know this to be true; moreover he almost appears to actually be pointing to the John 10:34-35 statement. And again here the same Logos-Word is used in the following statement from Paul:

1 Corinthians 14:36-37 KJV
36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 14:36-37 ASV
36 What? was it from you that the word of God went forth? or came it unto you alone?
37 If any man thinketh himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him take knowledge of the things which I write unto you, that they are the commandment of the Lord.


This has nothing to do with "equality with Elohim Almighty", (as Evil.Eye keeps trying to accuse me of saying), but rather has to do with the responsibility of judges who judge like elohim-judges. If therefore you judge unrighteous judgment you are no different from a fallen one, (elohim), and put yourself under even worse condemnation.
 

glorydaz

New member
You have somewhat perverted what I said. The lie in the garden was not "Ye shall be as elohim" and that is clear from the passage. The lie was, "Ye shall not surely die", for indeed Adam died, just as he was forewarned. You simply chose not to believe what the passage says in plain English because it does not agree with your mindset and what you prefer to believe against what the scripture says.





Therefore which of the three things spoken by the serpent was "the lie"?

There is NO TRUTH in him. You can't pick apart his statement to find "the lie". Take the whole exactly as he intended.

The half truth that makes it a full lie is what the serpent neglected to mention. That they should surely die was but a sliver of truth, for the whole world began to surely die. Their eyes were opened "and ye shall be as gods"....not quite. Their eyes were opened to their shame and guilt. To know good and evil...a sliver of truth since they experienced evil (unlike God)...becoming, in fact, more like the serpent than God.


As I said, a half truth is a full lie. Remember the verse..."there is no truth in him."
 

daqq

Well-known member
To know good and evil...a sliver of truth since they experienced evil (unlike God)...becoming, in fact, more like the serpent than God.

Actually not even what is highlighted from your statement is true because your versions all say that your Father knows evil: that is exactly what the passage emphatically implies in the statement, "And the LORD God (YHWH Elohim) said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:"

Again, your reading comprehension is terrible. The same "knowing" is then immediately used again in the very next passage where "Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived", (Gen 4:1).
 

daqq

Well-known member
True, you don't seem to understand that the "us" in Gen. 3 is the triune God. :idunno:

I understand what you believe about that passage but that has no bearing on what I have said either way. You either believe what the whole passage says or you do not; and you apparently choose not to believe what it plainly says. Moreover according to what you say, combined with what the passage actually states, you therefore must believe that the triune God intimately knows evil. You are correct; I believe no such thing. :chuckle:
 

daqq

Well-known member
True, you don't seem to understand that the "us" in Gen. 3 is the triune God. :idunno:

I understand what you believe about that passage but that has no bearing on what I have said either way. You either believe what the whole passage says or you do not; and you apparently choose not to believe what it plainly says. Moreover according to what you say, combined with what the passage actually states, you therefore must believe that the triune God intimately knows evil. You are correct; I believe no such thing. :chuckle:

Genesis 3:21 - 4:1 KJVRN
21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did YHWH Elohim make coats of skins, and clothed them.
22 And YHWH Elohim said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore YHWH Elohim sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
01 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from YHWH.

http://yahushua.net/scriptures/gen3.htm
http://yahushua.net/scriptures/gen4.htm

If you believe the above you might as well be an old school Gnostic because that is what they believed concerning the Father, (YHWH). In fact your mother church and fathers are shown to have been the real Gnostic heretics because they all believed the same thing despite the fact that they all knew the Apostolic authors quoted primarily from the Septuagint. Yet the Septuagint does not read the same way as all of the modern English translations do; and therefore even all of the English translators and their illustrious teams of scholars are guilty of the same because they have all known that the Apostles of Messiah quoted primarily from the Septuagint. And from study I know that the Septuagint text is reading from the same or similar ancient Hebrew text, (without the pointing and word spacing, which is critical to the discussion), and I therefore know that you get what you get in your erroneous English readings because your highly esteemed translators and their teams did not love the Father enough to truly understand His Word.

Genesis 3:21 - 4:1 LXX-Septuagint (Brenton Translation)
21 And the Lord God made for Adam and his wife garments of skin, and clothed them.
22 And
God said, Behold, Adam is become as one of us, to know good and evil, and now lest at any time he stretch forth his hand, and take of the tree of life and eat, and so he shall live forever—
23 So the Lord God sent him forth out of the garden of Delight to cultivate the ground out of which he was taken.
01 And Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and brought forth Cain and said, I have gained a man through
God.
http://biblehub.com/sep/genesis/3.htm
http://biblehub.com/sep/genesis/4.htm
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

BANNED
Banned
Genesis 3:21 - 4:1 KJVRN
21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did YHWH Elohim make coats of skins, and clothed them.
22 And YHWH Elohim said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore YHWH Elohim sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
01 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from YHWH.

http://yahushua.net/scriptures/gen3.htm
http://yahushua.net/scriptures/gen4.htm

If you believe the above you might as well be an old school Gnostic because that is what they believed concerning the Father, (YHWH). In fact your mother church and fathers are shown to have been the real Gnostic heretics because they all believed the same thing despite the fact that they all knew the Apostolic authors quoted primarily from the Septuagint. Yet the Septuagint does not read the same way as all of the modern English translations do; and therefore even all of the English translators and their illustrious teams of scholars are guilty of the same because they have all known that the Apostles of Messiah quoted primarily from the Septuagint. And from study I know that the Septuagint text is reading from the same or similar ancient Hebrew text, (without the pointing and word spacing, which is critical to the discussion), and I therefore know that you get what you get in your erroneous English readings because your highly esteemed translators and their teams did not love the Father enough to truly understand His Word.

Genesis 3:21 - 4:1 LXX-Septuagint (Brenton Translation)
21 And the Lord God made for Adam and his wife garments of skin, and clothed them.
22 And
God said, Behold, Adam is become as one of us, to know good and evil, and now lest at any time he stretch forth his hand, and take of the tree of life and eat, and so he shall live forever—
23 So the Lord God sent him forth out of the garden of Delight to cultivate the ground out of which he was taken.
01 And Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and brought forth Cain and said, I have gained a man through
God.
http://biblehub.com/sep/genesis/3.htm
http://biblehub.com/sep/genesis/4.htm

Daqq...

Your entire premise is Gnostic. You believe it is "Gnosis" and "Works" that saves you, and you refuse to accept scripture as it comes off of the page. You bible correct. These accusations are far from relevant, coming from you and further more... your rejection of Jesus being YHWH taints your entire perspective.

John 5:39 is the core of Scripture Daqq...

- EE
 
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