ECT Classical Original Sin Doctrine Vs. Biblical Origonal Sin Doctrine (A Multi OP Study)

Nick M

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17 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:
 

Danoh

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17 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:

This will go right past your ever extremism and its' resulting wooden literalism, but here goes...

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
 

dodge

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17 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:

Really not material Adam disobeyed God no matter the reason. Sin always presents it's own excuse to disobey God.

Rom 5:14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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That isn't very close evaluation, because you left off the main point, through one man's offense judgment came to all men. This is why Paul then also says through one man's righteous act, the free gift comes. Adam was to subdue the world. Instead, he listened to his wife.

Nick,

You take the succinct rout in speech and I respect you tremendously. I do my level best to show respect to the respectful and grace to the gracious, so, instead of firing back with a prideful defense of my OP, I'm going to launch another OP that directly addresses your point. It will be a two point OP that deals with the order of judgment that comes from genesis, but is fully expounded on in typification and especially by Paul and Jesus.

The second point will be the "order of consequence" as doled out by God and His words on the matter.

I'll re-quote your solid point with a link to the next in the OP series, once the next Original Sin series OP is launched.

- EE
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Original Sin?

Eradicated?

Depends on how one sees those passages that speak of man giving up the ghost as a description of their physical death - that, and other issues.

Spoiler


All of which refer to man breathing his last breath.

That breath that God first breathed into Adam that then made him a living soul.

And that an expectant mother's womb gives to its' unborn child.

It is clear in Genesis 1 that God built in every first living creature He created, including Adam, the ability to replicate and or reproduce and through that, pass on to its' offspring those abilities that God firsy placed in those first living creatures He created.

Genesis 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. 1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day. 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Obviously, every living creature passes on to it's offspring what said living creature is comprised of.

Girls look like a little version of mom, and boys walk like dad.

Even in twins separated at birth.

This is also the case where that which greatly impacts one's core.

As when people from now different ethnicities this side of Noah, marry and reproduce.

And as in the case of Crack babies.

A deep core structural change within key aspects of the mother's biological makeup reproduces in its child.

Likewise aa in the case of passing on HIV to a woman who then has a child that ends up HIV positive.

Even "the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead..." Rom. 1:20.

And we also know from Scripture that Adam was told...

Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

And we also know from Scripture that both Adam and Eve did eat from said forbidden tree....

Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

And we also know from Scripture the following took place after said fall...

Genesis 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. 4:2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

Genesis 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth: 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters: 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

And we know from Scripture....

Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.


1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

For putting aside Eve's gratitude for he who she had thought was the coming Redeemer, Adam and Eve's children were of their flesh after their fall.

Genesis 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. 4:2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

Why? Due also, to the following principle.

1 Corinthians 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

Hence the admonishment to the Believer about that which still dwells in their flesh, even after they are saved.

Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Hunh?

That old man our body of sin also houses...

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

That's right - the Law had been meant to provoke that sin dormant in one's members.

That it might revive from within one, to kill one each time one attempted to obey the Law, that said sin (not sins) might appear sin.

Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

We're talkin here about a man once still born...regenerated anew.

A man whom the Law had sought to show him through the Law that he was dead to righteousness...that God might give him life in his Son.

A man once dead to righteousness and alive unto sin, who has passed from that death to life.

But we're talking a duality here within the Believer now; and thus why the need on the Spirit's part through the Scripture, to ever point it out.

A duality within every Believer the denial of which ends up in a hypocrisy in such - ends up in such a kind of the so called "holiness" movement.

Those out there convinced by what is actually their fleshly mind's perspective in their ignorance: their erroneous assertion that they do not sin.

Might as well rip Romans 5-8 out of their Bibles.

Our old man - with its' lust of the flesh; and its' lust of the eye; and its' pride of life, is Adam's offspring, in Eve.

Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Both are our dual nature now.

Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

If such were no longer the case, the following would be unnecessary...

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Danoh,

You've taken an enormous amount of time to express your idea here. I didn't address what I meant by original sin being "eradicated"... so your answer is fair. My point of view hasn't been officially expressed yet. The effort you put into this deserves close evaluation and reading, so I will get to your well thought out post as soon as I accomplish the task that I have given myself, in response to Nick M's post, right before yours.

Gratitude,

- EE
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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17 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:

I have to note the specificity of your post here, and indeed, I will include these exact words in my next OP on this matter.
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Really not material Adam disobeyed God no matter the reason. Sin always presents it's own excuse to disobey God.

Rom 5:14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

You have brought up a good verse here for the exposition of "biblical original sin"... I'll include this in my next OP as well.
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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This will go right past your ever extremism and its' resulting wooden literalism, but here goes...

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Danoh,

I know that Nick M. defends the nature of the two covenants or "promises" to national Israel. This takes a "literal" and "typification" approach to scripture. My point... Nick is very adherent to textual revelation and to be observant... you are too. You both are critical thinkers that believe in the supremacy of scripture and are capable of non-linear evaluation.

As for your James verses... Excellent! I will use these in my building of the next OP of this series.

- EE
 

DAN P

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What is the Strongest proof text for classical Origonal Sin? (Romans 5:18)

Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.​

In close evaluation it seems cut and dry... but note... judgment enters through one man's offense. This verse does not say that Adams sin was imputed to all men... it says judgment entered through one man.

God doesn't judge like the judge this verse is referring to, judges... we know this by these words...

John 8:15

You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one.

Did you catch that? Jesus doesn't judge according to the flesh! That means that the Adversary does this and it is the "Mark or Seal" of those he has deceived!

This logically leads one to ask what offense condemns the whole world and who is condemning it? Who is the originator of sin?
L]


Hi and do you want to correct that verse in John 8:15 as Acts 10:42 reads , The one Having been Marked out ( to be ) JUDGE of ( the ) Living and the DEAD !!

dan p
 

Danoh

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Danoh,

I know that Nick M. defends the nature of the two covenants or "promises" to national Israel. This takes a "literal" and "typification" approach to scripture. My point... Nick is very adherent to textual revelation and to be observant... you are too. You both are critical thinkers that believe in the supremacy of scripture and are capable of non-linear evaluation.

As for your James verses... Excellent! I will use these in my building of the next OP of this series.

- EE

At best, Nick and his kind consistently reveal through their assertions that they are very poor at following the flow of thought within passages beyond the simpler, more obvious truths.

Thus, the Acts 9/Acts 28 Hybrid such assert is Mid-Acts.

His/theirs, in such errors, is simply another version of (the) many from within one school of thought or another within Christianity, whose conclusions reveal said same inability.

Add elitism and belligerence to that kind of thing, and you basically have individuals and or one group, or another, never able to see their errors.

And neither the obviously erroneous study approach of such, nor the resulting errors of such, nor how such handle dissent, is...Mid-Acts.

All that is, is the result of the bondage of the fleshly mind in such individuals and or such's respective collectives, of one kind or another, within Christianity.

All such end up merely a fascinating observation of the following...

2 Corinthians 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Hi and do you want to correct that verse in John 8:15 as Acts 10:42 reads , The one Having been Marked out ( to be ) JUDGE of ( the ) Living and the DEAD !!

dan p

Hi Dan P,

I don't want to correct it, because the Dispensation of the matter is critical. While Jesus was among us in the "Flesh", and before the "Gospel Dispensation" of Paul, He made it very clear that He judges the "Heart". The very mechanism of judgment that Acts is discussing is to emphasize that Jesus is indeed Judge of all creation and thus God.

The ruler of this world "judges" by the flesh.

I deeply appreciate your observation and to be sincere, if this is your noted issue with the OP, I'm deeply gracious. I fully agree that Jesus is the "Judge" of the Living and the Dead... but He alone is worthy of this title, despite many passages that we could utilize to appoint ourselves as "judges".

I'm pretty certain that you are a man of absolute grace and you understand why I worded this the way I did. If you would be comfortable if I linked this post, with response to your excellent observation that contains your assistance and my exposition, I will add it to the OP.

if you still find error in my intent, I welcome further observation from you.

Gratitude and Grace in Christ,

- EE
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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At best, Nick and his kind consistently reveal through their assertions that they are very poor at following the flow of thought within passages beyond the simpler, more obvious truths.

Thus, the Acts 9/Acts 28 Hybrid such assert is Mid-Acts.

His/theirs, in such errors, is simply another version of (the) many from within one school of thought or another within Christianity, whose conclusions reveal said same inability.

Add elitism and belligerence to that kind of thing, and you basically have individuals and or one group, or another, never able to see their errors.

And neither the obviously erroneous study approach of such, nor the resulting errors of such, nor how such handle dissent, is...Mid-Acts.

All that is, is the result of the bondage of the fleshly mind in such individuals and or such's respective collectives, of one kind or another, within Christianity.

All such end up merely a fascinating observation of the following...

2 Corinthians 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

Keep in mind that I do believe that Israel still matters to God and can rapidly prove with scripture that there is the "Body of Moses ... Bride of Christ" and the "Body of Christ ... Groom".

We all must continue to search scripture and grow.

Nick M and I are simply Iron sharpening Iron as you and I are.

- EE
 

Danoh

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Keep in mind that I do believe that Israel still matters to God and can rapidly prove with scripture that there is the "Body of Moses ... Bride of Christ" and the "Body of Christ ... Groom".

We all must continue to search scripture and grow.

Nick M and I are simply Iron sharpening Iron as you and I are.

- EE

Keep deluding yourself that that is what he and his kind are actually about within any group within Christianity, where such are found.

I've seen his kind's duplicity before.

Their gospel of grace is ever...graceless.

The condition of "see things our way, or we spit on you" - rationalized by such as "well, Jesus spit on others..."

Such are no iron sharpeneth iron.

In the eyes of those they spit on, such end up enemies of the very gospel of grace such are ever pointing their ever grace less finger at any one who does not hold their view.

MAD ending up taking the blame, in the eyes of the equally ignorant.
 

daqq

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The "Body of Moses" was folded into the "Body of Messiah" at Golgotha, (Matthew 27:51, 52, 53). There is one root, one vine, one door, and one sheepfold with one shepherd, (John 10:16).
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Keep deluding yourself that that is what he and his kind are actually about within any group within Christianity, where such are found.

I've seen his kind's duplicity before.

Their gospel of grace is ever...graceless.

The condition of "see things our way, or we spit on you" - rationalized by such as "well, Jesus spit on others..."

Such are no iron sharpeneth iron.

In the eyes of those they spit on, such end up enemies of the very gospel of grace such are ever pointing their ever grace less finger at any one who does not hold their view.

MAD ending up taking the blame, in the eyes of the equally ignorant.

So we get along at simple discussion, but if I bring up that God keeps ALL of His promises and point out Romans 11:25-36 ... suddenly I'm no longer worth discussion matters with?

You can deliver a 100 pound punch to my theological Jaw and I'll swing right back. You can infuse humor in your discussion with me and it will be returned. You can be difficult and I will raise the stakes of difficulty.

Come on Danoh... Don't go soft on me now!
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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The "Body of Moses" was folded into the "Body of Messiah" at Golgotha, (Matthew 27:51, 52, 53). There is one root, one vine, one door, and one sheepfold with one shepherd, (John 10:16).

Hmmmmmm... Because Paul said otherwise and Jesus Himself spoke of how they wouldn't understand until they say; "Blessed is He who comes IN THE NAME of GOD".

But... since you went there... If you admit that ONLY GOD IS GOOD, and that "self proclaimed" GOOD Shepherd IS the very (Heb. 1:3) of the (Ex. 33:18) matter... We can go forward in discussion.

I still count you my friend and since you yourself made it clear that we must speak truthfully about scripture, no matter the cost... I feel like we could still see Eye to Eye in disagreement.

Do you know WHO JESUS the Messiah is yet? Do you know my King?

 

daqq

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Hmmmmmm... Because Paul said otherwise and Jesus Himself spoke of how they wouldn't understand until they say; "Blessed is He who comes IN THE NAME of GOD".

Where is that quote written in the scripture as you wrote it? ("IN THE NAME of GOD")? "God" by itself is not generally a name and that is likely why those passages do not say what you say they say, (Mt 21:9, 23:39, Mk 11:9, Lk 13:35, 19:38, Jn 12:13).

But... since you went there... If you admit that ONLY GOD IS GOOD, and that "self proclaimed" GOOD Shepherd IS the very (Heb. 1:3) of the (Ex. 33:18) matter... We can go forward in discussion.

If indeed you can use the scripture in the literal wooden way that you do, as being full of "proof texts" for you to hammer other people with, then you cannot be correct and have nullified your own argument because the very same thing is stated by the same author, using the same exact word for "good" concerning Barnabas. Therefore according to your assertion and your example of proof texting "Barnabas is God" because Barnabas was a good man; and if Barnabas was a good man then he must also have been a God-Man according to your own assertion:

Luke 18:19 KJV
19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good,
[αγαθος] save one, that is, God.

Luke 18:19 Textus Receptus, (KJV)
19 ειπε δε αυτω ο ιησους τι με λεγεις αγαθον; ουδεις αγαθος ει μη εις ο θεος


Lo and behold from the same author:

Acts 11:22-25 KJV
22 Then tidings of these things came unto the ears of the church which was in Jerusalem: and they sent forth Barnabas, that he should go as far as Antioch.
23 Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord.
24 For he was a good man,
[ανηρ αγαθος] and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord.
25 Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul:

Acts 11:24 Textus Receptus
24 οτι ην ανηρ αγαθος και πληρης πνευματος αγιου και πιστεως και προσετεθη οχλος ικανος τω κυριω


How do you explain this in your doctrine? It clearly says that Barnabas was a good man, (ανηρ αγαθος), the same agathos which the same author employs in Luke 18:19 to quote the Master saying that there is none agathos-good, save one, God. So how can you even be sure that what you have in the Luke passage is rendered correctly? What if it literally says "IF-NOT", (ει μη), instead of "except" or "save" as the KJV renders that portion? It does indeed literally mean "if not" but what would that mean in the context of Luke 18:19? Could it mean "none is good, if not one of God's" (people)? or maybe "if not one with God"? Or is it rather that you are now willing to stick to your guns and confess that Barnabas must also be a God-Man according to your stiffnecked stances and arguments? It appears from where I stand that there must be something flawed with your argument because none of us believes that Barnabas was God or a God-Man. If you want to understand you must be willing to question everything you read in your English translations and dig down to the source texts. However you just accused me yet again of be a continual "scripture corrector" in one of my threads; so I suppose you will stay in your pit of confusion, allowing other men to tell you what to believe by way of their translations. You do not even realize you are slave to those men whose translations you depend on. It is not possible to render Greek or Hebrew into any other language without being forced to make interpretations; it simply cannot be done, and if you say that one of the English translations is "inspired English" then you pretty much need to default to the KJV because it became the most widespread first and foremost. However the KJV just fouled you up in your own argument, (and that is nothing compared to what else it will do to you elsewhere, if not already, lol).
 

daqq

Well-known member
Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)>
Hmmmmmm... Because Paul said otherwise and Jesus Himself spoke of how they wouldn't understand until they say; "Blessed is He who comes IN THE NAME of GOD".
Where is that quote written in the scripture as you wrote it? ("IN THE NAME of GOD")? "God" by itself is not generally a name and that is likely why those passages do not say what you say they say, (Mt 21:9, 23:39, Mk 11:9, Lk 13:35, 19:38, Jn 12:13).

Also, those passages are all quoting the same place from the Psalms:

Matthew 21:9 KJV
9 And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the Son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.

Matthew 21:9 TS2009 W/Footnotes
9 And the crowds who went before and those who followed cried out, saying, “Hoshia-na to the Son of Dawiḏ! Blessed is He who is coming in the Name of יהוה! Hoshia-na in the highest!”
Psa 118:26.

Matthew 23:39 TS2009 W/Footnotes
39 for I say to you, from now on you shall by no means see Me, until you say, ‘Blessed is He who is coming in the Name of יהוה!’ ”
Psa 118:26.

Luke 13:35 TS2009 W/Footnotes
35 “See, your House is left to you laid waste. And truly I say to you, you shall by no means see Me until the time comes when you say, ‘Blessed is He who is coming in the Name of יהוה!’ ”
b Psa 118:26. Footnote: bSee Mat 23:39.

Luke 19:38 TS2009 W/Footnotes
38 saying, “ ‘Blessed is the Sovereign who is coming in the Name of
יהוה!a Psa 118:26 Peace in heaven and esteem in the highest!” Footnote: a Mat 23:39.

John 12:13 TS2009 W/Footnotes
13 took the branches of palm trees and went out to meet Him, and were crying out, “Hoshia-na!
Psa 118:25 Blessed is He who is coming in the Name of יהוה,a Psa 118:26 the Sovereign of Yisra’ĕl!” Footnote: aSee Mat 23:39 and Psa 118:26.

Psalm 118:25-26 TS2009 W/Footnotes
25 I pray, O יהוה, please save us now;
c I pray, O יהוה, please send prosperity. Footnote: cHebrew: Hoshianah.
26 Blessed is He who is coming in the Name of יהוה!
d We shall bless you from the House of יהוה. Footnote: dAlso see Mat 21:9, John 12:13 and Deut 18:18-20.

Is it not you who says, "Jesus is YHWH"??? But none of this says what you say and rather teaches that YHWH is his, (and our), heavenly Father because the Master himself also says this:

John 5:43 KJV
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.


Messiah comes in the name of the LORD, he comes in the name of his and our Father, he comes in the name of יהוה, (YHWH), and moreover the name of the Father is all of Torah, Prophets, and Writings, (Tanakh | "Old Testament"), because a name is so much more than a simple spelling of letters. A name is character, attributes, quality, authority, power, and so many more wonderful things that are found in the Word of the Father which expounds Him unto us His children. :)
 
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