ChristianForums banned Christ.

[godrulz]

Just a small point of contention here. It is my interpretation of scripture that all human beings are children of God (assuming that we're looking to scripture as an authority source).

Ac 17:28 for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, 'For we also are His children.'
Ac 17:29 "Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man.

And although there are references to children of the devil in scripture, we may nonetheless surmise that such is merely allegory, insofar as the devil has never actually impregnated any human being (at least as far as I'm aware).

Joh 8:44 "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

There are two senses. We are all 'children' of God and share a brotherhood of man in that God is the Creator and Sustainer of man (both good and evil men).

Paul was quoting their pagan poets to make a point and find common ground to argue from an unknown god to the uncreated triune Creator (Living God revealed in the God-Man, Christ). He was not making a doctrinal statement in their quote that would be contrary to Christ's explicit teaching (Jn. 3...believer vs unbeliever; light vs darkness; truth vs lie; spirit vs flesh= dualisms).

Jn. 1:12 and Romans refer to spiritual vs natural children of God who are adopted into His Forever Family through faith in Christ. He becomes Abba, Father, in an intimate, redemptive (vs creation) relationship. Those who do not enter the narrow gate are still creations of the Creator, but they are not the sons of God leading to eternal life. They are at enmity with God and objects of wrath, children (by default) of the devil (Eph. 2; Rom. 1-3).

We are sons of Adam (children of Creator God), but we must be born again to become sons of the New Adam (Christ), new creatures in Christ, adopted as sons of God once again.

 

[oftenbuzzard]

Cmon...I think the post is generally succinct and agreed on by most believers (or are you referring to your perceptions of what you think I believe about the specific concepts?).

The newbie does not have to agree with everything I have ever said or will ever say. I am sure he will have discernment as needed.

You are right my friend. My endorsement was for the post content only.

However, I find that folks that have this right are not as numerous as one might think. Lots of good theology in that post.

Consider my wave as a TruthSmooch!

~buzz

 

[NobodyImportant]

It doesn't matter. None of it matters because we are called to serve Christ and save others from hell. It is how we do that that matters. If your friend is having an abortion (sorry to skip so far back) and you tell her that it is wrong, it becomes her decision. All you can do is love. Grace is the key, and the rest of it is dust, chaff in the wind. Christ wants everyone in his kingdom and that is the big picture. And finger pointing and judgement - correct or incorrect - come only from God who is perfect and holy and just, not from us. We are to love. I don't want to be defeatest, but we can't lose sight of that goal because of pointless debates on some online forum. We would be contradicting ourselves. I don't want to insult or provoke anyone, but alert this board that it could be going in a very wrong direction. Thats all. Its your decision what happens next.

 

[billwald]

"It is not my perspective that verbal confession or heart belief save a person's soul. I would interpret this verse as merely validating that verbal confession and heart belief are mere byproducts of a person who is already saved. But the two elements have no saving power in and of themselves.

. . . .

"Likewise, anyone can confess to be a Christian, and believe in their heart that they are a Christian, but this doesn't necessarily make them a Christian. They may be or they may not be. These elements have no saving power, but are merely expressions of an already existent Christian. But sometimes non-Christians do these things as well."

In other words, Christians are like God in that they (may) exist but there is no way to detect them.

 

[~Agnostic~]

There are two senses. We are all 'children' of God and share a brotherhood of man in that God is the Creator and Sustainer of man (both good and evil men).

What are 'children' of God as opposed to children of God?

Paul was quoting their pagan poets to make a point

And that point included that all people are children of God as opposed to mere 'children' of God.

and find common ground to argue from an unknown god to the uncreated triune Creator (Living God revealed in the God-Man, Christ).

Not only does Paul find this common ground (which you seem to imply that he didn't even believe), but he also reinforces the teachings of secular philosophers as a doctrinal foundation point. Observe the second portion of the scripture unit which I had highlighted for you.

Ac 17:28 for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, 'For we also are His children.'
Ac 17:29 "Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man.

You seem to imply here that Paul doesn't actually believe what he's saying, when making a reference to children of God (as opposed to 'children' of God). You're just altering the scripture in an attempt to nullify what it actually says, in order to support your own doctrinal presuppositions at this point, as far as I'm concerned. You're willfully invalidating the text by substituting children with 'children'.

He was not making a doctrinal statement in their quote

Sure he was. Where did you get the idea that he wasn't? Is it because he had used an extra-biblical source text? Was he just pretending to agree with some secular 'heresy' to win people to Christ after some form of relational evangelism? Winning over the lost by openly embracing their lies, and then secretly interjecting the truth? Is this good gospel?

that would be contrary to Christ's explicit teaching (Jn. 3...believer vs unbeliever; light vs darkness; truth vs lie; spirit vs flesh= dualisms).

I suggest that Christ used dualistic teachings only to communicate with dualistic minds. And you may be a bit stuck there. This is perhaps similar to the way that Christ enlisted parables.

Jn. 1:12 and Romans refer to spiritual vs natural children of God who are adopted into His Forever Family through faith in Christ. He becomes Abba, Father, in an intimate, redemptive (vs creation) relationship. Those who do not enter the narrow gate are still creations of the Creator, but they are not the sons of God leading to eternal life. They are at enmity with God and objects of wrath, children (by default) of the devil (Eph. 2; Rom. 1-3).

I suggest that the goal of dualistic teachings within the scripture is not to lead a non-dualistic mind into dualism, but rather to establish rapport with a dualistic mind and lead it out of dualism.

We are sons of Adam (children of Creator God), but we must be born again to become sons of the New Adam (Christ), new creatures in Christ, adopted as sons of God once again.

And here comes the release from dualism.

 

[~Agnostic~]

"It is not my perspective that verbal confession or heart belief save a person's soul. I would interpret this verse as merely validating that verbal confession and heart belief are mere byproducts of a person who is already saved. But the two elements have no saving power in and of themselves.

. . . .

"Likewise, anyone can confess to be a Christian, and believe in their heart that they are a Christian, but this doesn't necessarily make them a Christian. They may be or they may not be. These elements have no saving power, but are merely expressions of an already existent Christian. But sometimes non-Christians do these things as well."

In other words, Christians are like God in that they (may) exist but there is no way to detect them.

Mt 7:20 "So then, you will know them by their fruits.

Of course, fruits (actions, words) dont's actually save a person. These are merely works which have no power to save a soul. If someone proclaims that these two elements save a soul, they are therefore teachings a works-based salvation.

 

[blackhawk]

TITLE OF THE WEBSITE: ChristianForums.com
SUBTITLE OF THEIR WEBSITE: Christian Forums is a multi-denominational Christian forum message board community uniting all Christians as one body.

Yet the truth divides!

Christ said...

Luke 12:51 “Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division.

Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword."

John 7:43 So there was a division among the people because of Him.

So ChristianForums.com banned Christ.

ChristianForums.com RULES state...

Christ exclaimed...

Matthew 23:33 “Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?

So ChristianForums.com swiftly banned Christ.

ChristianForums.com rules state:

Christ warned...

John 8:44 “You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

And Christ turned to Peter and said...

“Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”

So ChristianForums.com quickly banned Christ.

ChristianForums.coms rules state:

Christ made Himself clear...

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

And when the rich man asked Christ....

Luke 18:18 Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 19 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. 20 “You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ” 21 And he said, “All these things I have kept from my youth.” 22 So when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” 23 But when he heard this, he became very sorrowful, for he was very rich. 24 And when Jesus saw that he became very sorrowful, He said, “How hard it is for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God! 25 “For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

So ChristianForums.com deleted Christ's words and quickly banned Christ.

There are so many things wrong with this post I do not know exactly where to begin. First of all it is clear by having a Christian only section that they do they do tell others that they are not Christian. That is clear. Also it is clear that Kight has either never posted over there or ignores how the rules are enforced over there. Because there is much honest and open discussion and many times some members call other members unorthodox etc. So Knight's post against CF just does not reflect ther real truth at CF but instead is just another post that tries to divide instead of unite. So instead of readiing this drivel pleae go over to CF and really look at how things are done. I do not think Knight and many others here will do that since they are only posting to stir up arguments and controversies. Well all I can say is have fun and I guess this is why I do not come on this board to often if this is the kind of silly posts are common here.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

There are so many things wrong with this post I do not know exactly where to begin. First of all it is clear by having a Christian only section that they do they do tell others that they are not Christian. That is clear.

Fantastic! Now you can join me in asking them to remove that from their rules.

Also it is clear that Kight has either never posted over there or ignores how the rules are enforced over there.

Guilty as charged.

Because there is much honest and open discussion and many times some members call other members unorthodox etc. So Knight's post against CF just does not reflect ther real truth at CF but instead is just another post that tries to divide instead of unite.

Again, I will not doubt your assertion.

But it is clear that their rules state otherwise. Therefore they should take my advice and alter their rules, do you disagree? And if so, why?

 

[blackhawk]

Fantastic! Now you can join me in asking them to remove that from their rules.

Guilty as charged.

Again, I will not doubt your assertion.

But it is clear that their rules state otherwise. Therefore they should take my advice and alter their rules, do you disagree? And if so, why?

No because the rules are meant for civil discussion on the web. Remember this is the web and neither CF nor here is a local church. Their rules for the most part are fine. It is your interpretation that is incorrect. But you have just stated that you did not even take the time to see how the rules were applied at CF. I do nto see how you can be taken seriously now since obviously your post was just trying to stir up quarrells amongst believers. By not doing any HW and just posting an interpretation of a rule you show that you did not intend to engourage CF to change their rules or even make an attempt to understand then. This is much like many who when they first hear the EAstern Orthodox doctrine of deification do not take the time to understand what is meant by the term and instead reject it outright. So I implore all to before they listen to you or others to see for themselves and do their HW and then decide what CF is doing and then go to them Biblically as MATT 18 commands us to do.

 

[GuySmiley]

There are so many things wrong with this post I do not know exactly where to begin. First of all it is clear by having a Christian only section that they do they do tell others that they are not Christian.

Are you calling them hypocrites? They break their own rules?

Because there is much honest and open discussion and many times some members call other members unorthodox etc.

How does anyone stand up in the face of such a scathing rebuke? If you are allowed to call someone 'unorthodox' well then forget the whole thing.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

No because the rules are meant for civil discussion on the web. Remember this is the web and neither CF nor here is a local church. Their rules for the most part are fine. It is your interpretation that is incorrect. But you have just stated that you did not even take the time to see how the rules were applied at CF. I do nto see how you can be taken seriously now since obviously your post was just trying to stir up quarrells amongst believers. By not doing any HW and just posting an interpretation of a rule you show that you did not intend to engourage CF to change their rules or even make an attempt to understand then. This is much like many who when they first hear the EAstern Orthodox doctrine of deification do not take the time to understand what is meant by the term and instead reject it outright. So I implore all to before they listen to you or others to see for themselves and do their HW and then decide what CF is doing and then go to them Biblically as MATT 18 commands us to do.

Listen to what you are saying!!!

You are acknowledging my point!

You are claiming they DO NOT enforce their stated rules and therefore CF is not so bad. But in saying that you are acknowledging that their rules MUST BE BAD! For if they were not in error it would be pointless to explain that they do not follow their own rules.

I appreciate your input as it has codified my point more than I ever could have.

 

[blackhawk]

Listen to what you are saying!!!

You are acknowledging my point!

You are claiming they DO NOT enforce their stated rules and therefore CF is not so bad. But in saying that you are acknowledging that their rules MUST BE BAD! For if they were not in error it would be pointless to explain that they do not follow their own rules.

I appreciate your input as it has codified my point more than I ever could have.

No. Like any other written document the rules at Cf must be interpreted. That is obvious. You put not work into actually looking into how they are interpreted but instead just used them for your own purposes. that is clear b/c you did not HW to see how they are interpreted. You acknowledged that and i respect your honesty. But please do not pretend to understand CF rules when you made no attempt to see how they are interpreted. you read them iun the way that yu wanted to read them and are claiming that this is the way CF understands them. That is not true. So do your HW then if you still honestly think that they are in error. Go to the ones who run the site and express your concern to them. Do not just bash others here on the web in a nopen forum. Think of Christ's teaching and how we are to go to our brothers and sisters when they are in error.

But please before you do that actually take the time to see if they are in error and not just read their rules in the way that you want to read them instead of how they are meant to be understood by the authors.

 

[blackhawk]

Are you calling them hypocrites? They break their own rules?


How does anyone stand up in the face of such a scathing rebuke? If you are allowed to call someone 'unorthodox' well then forget the whole thing.

I think it is obvious in what I am saying for mmy previous posts to Knight. But again what I am saying is that one should actually understand CF's rules before one attempts to say why they are wrong. And also that the way this was handled was very unBiblical and unChristian.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

No. Like any other written document the rules at Cf must be interpreted. That is obvious..

So, you need a hermeneutic to understand the rules on a internet forum? :rotfl:

Do not just bash others here on the web in a nopen forum. Think of Christ's teaching and how we are to go to our brothers and sisters when they are in error.

Uh... that's what I did. I made a whip of cords and started swinging it. And then they closed my thread.

 

[JoyfulRook]

My response has been made to the accusations against me in the "A Non-Christian's Perspective on TOLKnight's board" thread.

 

[Nineveh]

It doesn't matter. None of it matters because we are called to serve Christ and save others from hell. It is how we do that that matters.

If we are lead by the Spirit to be harsh, then we should be. If we are lead by the Spirit to be gentle, then we should be. What we shouldn't be is willing to stand infront of another's witness merely because we may "disapprove".

If your friend is having an abortion (sorry to skip so far back) and you tell her that it is wrong, it becomes her decision. All you can do is love. Grace is the key, and the rest of it is dust, chaff in the wind.

Now down to the nitty gritty...

Do you "love" by giving her a ride to the clinic? Can you love by being harsh when all else has failed and the friend is still insistant on murdering her baby?

Do you recall Paul getting harsh with the Corinthians?

Even if I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it. Though I did regret it—I see that my letter hurt you, but only for a little while— yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. - Paul

Sometimes a loved one needs a sharp rebuke.

Christ wants everyone in his kingdom and that is the big picture. And finger pointing and judgement - correct or incorrect - come only from God who is perfect and holy and just, not from us.

And now for my witness, should you care to read it....

If only a mere mortal had used their most unkind words to wake me up to the Truth, unfortunatly none ever bothered. Rather, the Holy Spirit (most unkindly) shoved the Truth in my face. It was painful, it was terrifying, and.... it got the job done.

We are to love.

As with judgement, love has a Godly standard, too. Let's not replace His standard of Love with only "kindness" and "comfort". Sometimes Love can seem quite harsh.

I don't want to be defeatest, but we can't lose sight of that goal because of pointless debates on some online forum. We would be contradicting ourselves. I don't want to insult or provoke anyone, but alert this board that it could be going in a very wrong direction. Thats all. Its your decision what happens next.

..."it could be"....

Or you can consider what has been said to you and perhaps your "could be" will be what you find in error.

 

[Granite]

I must say I'm a little unclear as to why Knight (or whoever) decided to go after this website...

I mean, let the dead bury their dead...

 

[kmoney]

I must say I'm a little unclear as to why Knight (or whoever) decided to go after this website...

I mean, let the dead bury their dead...

Seems like he felt threatened.....:chuckle:

 

[erinmarie]

Seems like he felt threatened.....:chuckle:

Does it?

 

[Lighthouse]

Why is everyone quoting passages about Jesus and Paul dealing with rebellious unbelievers to justify harshness, ignorance, rigidity, divisiveness, etc. when dealing with fellow God-fearing, God-loving believers in Christ.

I'll tell you why, because Jesus did the very sme thing. He was brash, rude and offensive when talking to fellow believers. Just look at many of the things He said to Peter...

This wasn't just about unbelievers, in fact, the verses being quoted from Jesus are mostly to the Pharisees, who were believers. They were wrong, and Jesus called them on it, and called them names.

And Paul was talking about ways to deal with fellow believers, as well. You need to pay more attention.