You can't just tell her it's wrong. You have to make sure she understands that she would be a murderer if she did that. And that murderers go to hell. And that she needs to repent for even considering, and if she goes through with it she needs to repent of that as well. And she needs to turn to God, or go to hell. And you also have to make sure that she knows it is her choice whether or not she goes to hell, and no one else's, not even God's. Because God's choice is for us all to be with Him.NobodyImportant said:It doesn't matter. None of it matters because we are called to serve Christ and save others from hell. It is how we do that that matters. If your friend is having an abortion (sorry to skip so far back) and you tell her that it is wrong, it becomes her decision. All you can do is love. Grace is the key, and the rest of it is dust, chaff in the wind. Christ wants everyone in his kingdom and that is the big picture. And finger pointing and judgement - correct or incorrect - come only from God who is perfect and holy and just, not from us. We are to love. I don't want to be defeatest, but we can't lose sight of that goal because of pointless debates on some online forum. We would be contradicting ourselves. I don't want to insult or provoke anyone, but alert this board that it could be going in a very wrong direction. Thats all. Its your decision what happens next.
Lighthouse said:I'll tell you why, because Jesus did the very sme thing. He was brash, rude and offensive when talking to fellow believers. Just look at many of the things He said to Peter...
This wasn't just about unbelievers, in fact, the verses being quoted from Jesus are mostly to the Pharisees, who were believers. They were wrong, and Jesus called them on it, and called them names.
And Paul was talking about ways to deal with fellow believers, as well. You need to pay more attention.
Once again, I refer to the way Jesus dealt with Peter.:duh:godrulz said:Pharisees were not true believers. He called them a brood of vipers and instrumental in people going to hell. I am talking about genuine Christians who are sincerely trying to love God and His people, not divisive Christians dabbling in winds of doctrine or pride.
Jesus was only harsh with the hard-hearted. He was loving with the hurt, broken, and those open to truth if someone would set them free from their bondage. Discernment is needed as to whether we deal harshly or tenderly with people. A Pastor's heart is not to beat the sheep everytime they disagree with us on peripheral issues.
Do you assume that there are no such people at ChristianForums?godrulz said:Pharisees were not true believers. He called them a brood of vipers and instrumental in people going to hell. ...divisive Christians dabbling in winds of doctrine or pride.
Jesus was only harsh with the hard-hearted.
Lighthouse said:Once again, I refer to the way Jesus dealt with Peter.:duh:
Turbo said:Do you assume that there are no such people at ChristianForums?
godrulz said:Jesus was only harsh with the hard-hearted. .
But He turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
You are arguing against a straw man, godrulz. No one has suggested that Christians should be rude at all times to all people in all circumstances.godrulz said:He did not always deal with Peter this way... We are just suspicious that all rudeness in the kingdom to one another is His authority and Spirit rather than our flesh and rash judgments.
But at ChristianForums, dealing with people that way is forbidden whether it is actually appropriate or not. Do you therefore agree that ChristianForums should modifty their rules?No one is denying the way Paul and Jesus dealt with believers at times.
Turbo said:You are arguing against a straw man, godrulz. No one has suggested that Christians should be rude at all times to all people in all circumstances.
Turbo said:But their rules forbid members from dealing with them exactly as Jesus and Paul did. That is what Knight pointed out in the opening post.
Do you agree then that their rules should be changed?
Some of their rules are quoted in the opening post. You could also go to the site and read them for yourself. If you're going to contribute to this thread, it might be good to know what we're talking about.godrulz said:I cannot comment since I do not know their rules.
:up:However, their rules should change if it makes them more biblical and in line with what Paul and Jesus did.
But they are not right to have rules and parameters that would forbid members from doing good. They are not right to have rules that would get Christ banned.Just as you have a right to moderate these boards and lay down conditions or the law (even at the risk of moderator subjectivity and abuse of power), so other boards have a right to have their rules and parameters.
No kidding. No one has suggested otherwise. Why do you keep arguing against points that no one has made?For all the examples of Jesus and Paul, there are other examples of a motherly/fatherly dealing with people...
NobodyImportant said:Yes, if someone is doing something decidedly unbiblical, especially a fellow believer, you should alert them to their ways. However, this should be done in love, not judgement so as to remain a friend and helper. Condemnation is not the goal.
What you say is true to a point, but who's going to hear what you have to say if you are on ignore?ShadowMaid said:Exactly. Love. But, so many Christians think the only kind of love is tolerance. And that's not true. As you're read from Scripture, Leviticus 19:17 Do not hate your brother in your heart. Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in his guilt.