ChristianForums banned Christ.

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Lighthouse

Star-Spangled Kid
NobodyImportant said:
It doesn't matter. None of it matters because we are called to serve Christ and save others from hell. It is how we do that that matters. If your friend is having an abortion (sorry to skip so far back) and you tell her that it is wrong, it becomes her decision. All you can do is love. Grace is the key, and the rest of it is dust, chaff in the wind. Christ wants everyone in his kingdom and that is the big picture. And finger pointing and judgement - correct or incorrect - come only from God who is perfect and holy and just, not from us. We are to love. I don't want to be defeatest, but we can't lose sight of that goal because of pointless debates on some online forum. We would be contradicting ourselves. I don't want to insult or provoke anyone, but alert this board that it could be going in a very wrong direction. Thats all. Its your decision what happens next.
You can't just tell her it's wrong. You have to make sure she understands that she would be a murderer if she did that. And that murderers go to hell. And that she needs to repent for even considering, and if she goes through with it she needs to repent of that as well. And she needs to turn to God, or go to hell. And you also have to make sure that she knows it is her choice whether or not she goes to hell, and no one else's, not even God's. Because God's choice is for us all to be with Him.
 

godrulz

New member
Lighthouse said:
I'll tell you why, because Jesus did the very sme thing. He was brash, rude and offensive when talking to fellow believers. Just look at many of the things He said to Peter...

This wasn't just about unbelievers, in fact, the verses being quoted from Jesus are mostly to the Pharisees, who were believers. They were wrong, and Jesus called them on it, and called them names.

And Paul was talking about ways to deal with fellow believers, as well. You need to pay more attention.


Pharisees were not true believers. He called them a brood of vipers and instrumental in people going to hell. I am talking about genuine Christians who are sincerely trying to love God and His people, not divisive Christians dabbling in winds of doctrine or pride.

Jesus was only harsh with the hard-hearted. He was loving with the hurt, broken, and those open to truth if someone would set them free from their bondage. Discernment is needed as to whether we deal harshly or tenderly with people. A Pastor's heart is not to beat the sheep everytime they disagree with us on peripheral issues.
 

Lighthouse

Star-Spangled Kid
godrulz said:
Pharisees were not true believers. He called them a brood of vipers and instrumental in people going to hell. I am talking about genuine Christians who are sincerely trying to love God and His people, not divisive Christians dabbling in winds of doctrine or pride.

Jesus was only harsh with the hard-hearted. He was loving with the hurt, broken, and those open to truth if someone would set them free from their bondage. Discernment is needed as to whether we deal harshly or tenderly with people. A Pastor's heart is not to beat the sheep everytime they disagree with us on peripheral issues.
Once again, I refer to the way Jesus dealt with Peter.:duh:
 

Turbo

Friendly Neighborhood Admin
godrulz said:
Pharisees were not true believers. He called them a brood of vipers and instrumental in people going to hell. ...divisive Christians dabbling in winds of doctrine or pride.

Jesus was only harsh with the hard-hearted.
Do you assume that there are no such people at ChristianForums?
 

godrulz

New member
Lighthouse said:
Once again, I refer to the way Jesus dealt with Peter.:duh:


He did not always deal with Peter this way. No one is denying the way Paul and Jesus dealt with believers at times. We are just suspicious that all rudeness in the kingdom to one another is His authority and Spirit rather than our flesh and rash judgments.
 

godrulz

New member
Turbo said:
Do you assume that there are no such people at ChristianForums?


I am sure there are, just as there are the same here. Speak the truth in love. This is our mandate. This includes rebuking, reproving, etc with the Word and the Spirit, not in our flesh.
 

oftenbuzzard

New member
godrulz said:
Jesus was only harsh with the hard-hearted. .

Jesus to Peter....

Mt. 16:23

But He turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.


Paul to Peter....

Gal 2:11

But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

even the "first Pope" needs a few rebukes!
 

Turbo

Friendly Neighborhood Admin
godrulz said:
He did not always deal with Peter this way... We are just suspicious that all rudeness in the kingdom to one another is His authority and Spirit rather than our flesh and rash judgments.
You are arguing against a straw man, godrulz. No one has suggested that Christians should be rude at all times to all people in all circumstances.

No one is denying the way Paul and Jesus dealt with believers at times.
But at ChristianForums, dealing with people that way is forbidden whether it is actually appropriate or not. Do you therefore agree that ChristianForums should modifty their rules?
 

godrulz

New member
Turbo said:
You are arguing against a straw man, godrulz. No one has suggested that Christians should be rude at all times to all people in all circumstances.


I know this. Defending the indefensible needs hyperbole? Never mind. I apologize in advance. :cheers:
 

Turbo

Friendly Neighborhood Admin
godrulz said:
I am sure there are...
But their rules forbid members from dealing with them exactly as Jesus and Paul did. That is what Knight pointed out in the opening post.

Do you agree then that their rules should be changed?
 

godrulz

New member
Turbo said:
But their rules forbid members from dealing with them exactly as Jesus and Paul did. That is what Knight pointed out in the opening post.

Do you agree then that their rules should be changed?


I cannot comment since I do not know their rules. However, their rules should change if it makes them more biblical and in line with what Paul and Jesus did. Rather than being at two extremes (tolerate everyone no matter how ignorant, fleshly, and abusive they are VS tolerate little and ban anyone who is not 'luving'), why not censure those who are divisive and abusive in their judgments (Jesus and Paul did this) and encourage wise and needed rebuke? WorthyBoards bans nonsense and ignorant people who cross the line, yet they also allow seasoned rebuke and disagreement. This is a fine line that requires wisdom and patience.

Just as you have a right to moderate these boards and lay down conditions or the law (even at the risk of moderator subjectivity and abuse of power), so other boards have a right to have their rules and parameters. Guests should make an informed decision about their involvement. This does not preclude someone speaking out against them if they feel they are compromising.

Sometimes our zeal for our version of the truth is a thinly veiled arrogance that lacks love and wisdom leading to intolerance and smacking where Jesus and Paul might not do so in the same situation.

Like counter-cultist Walter Martin used to say (before he died...he was very abrasive in person and in his dealings with cults because much was at stake and he loved truth/souls and hated the lie/Satan): we can win the argument and lose the soul...we need more light than heat.

Jesus also commended the churches in Revelation before He rebuked them. This is a psychologically sound approach in speaking the truth in love. Getting people twisted and defensive before we ram truth down their throats is counter-productive.

For all the examples of Jesus and Paul, there are other examples of a motherly/fatherly dealing with people (hen gather chicks, etc.). I Cor. 13 (love) and Gal. 5 (fruit of the Spirit) and Phil. 4 (love/unity/diversity) and I Cor. (divisions/pride), etc. are equally relevant principles in dealing with differences and conflict.
 

Turbo

Friendly Neighborhood Admin
godrulz said:
I cannot comment since I do not know their rules.
Some of their rules are quoted in the opening post. You could also go to the site and read them for yourself. If you're going to contribute to this thread, it might be good to know what we're talking about.

However, their rules should change if it makes them more biblical and in line with what Paul and Jesus did.
:up:

Just as you have a right to moderate these boards and lay down conditions or the law (even at the risk of moderator subjectivity and abuse of power), so other boards have a right to have their rules and parameters.
But they are not right to have rules and parameters that would forbid members from doing good. They are not right to have rules that would get Christ banned.

You seem to be contradicting yourself.

On the one hand, you just agreed that it is wrong for a Christian board's administration to disallow Christ-like behavior, to set up their rules in such a way that Christ would be banned at their site, and that they should amend such rules.

But then you went on to say that they could set up their rules however they see fit.

Which is it? :confused:

For all the examples of Jesus and Paul, there are other examples of a motherly/fatherly dealing with people...
No kidding. No one has suggested otherwise. Why do you keep arguing against points that no one has made?

(By the way, even fathers and mothers should deal with their children harshly under certain circumstances. ;) )
 
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ApologeticJedi

New member
NobodyImportant said:
Yes, if someone is doing something decidedly unbiblical, especially a fellow believer, you should alert them to their ways. However, this should be done in love, not judgement so as to remain a friend and helper. Condemnation is not the goal.

Not judgement? How do you dare tell someone to stop doing something if you have not judged that what he is doing is wrong? Wouldn't that just make you some kind of control freak?

As for whether this shoud be done "in love", that phrase is too obscure for me, and thus often misused. Was it "in love" that Jesus made a whip and ran theives from the temple?

How you deal with a brother really depends on the nature of the sin, and the status of the heart of the one doing it. "With some use compassion ..." (Jude verse 22), but not all.
 

godrulz

New member
The motive and intent and spirit of the rules seems reasonable, but the letter of it might be seen as too narrow. I am labeled as a Christ-hating, worse than Hitler, demon possessed person here at times by fellow believers. Perhaps some of their rules would bring Christ-honoring order to the wild west of the internet. Be consistent. No rules is anarchy. The law of the land does not tolerate libel, slander, assault, threats, etc. Why should the church that is based on truth and justice tolerate it just to be cool and where the badge of truthsmacker, whether inflammatory statements are true or not? What's good for the goose should be good for the gander. Let's not call the kettle black if we also have rules that are sub-biblical or if we tolerate those who Paul would not let run amok among the brethren.
 

no avatar

New member
ShadowMaid said:
Exactly. Love. But, so many Christians think the only kind of love is tolerance. And that's not true. As you're read from Scripture, Leviticus 19:17 Do not hate your brother in your heart. Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in his guilt.
What you say is true to a point, but who's going to hear what you have to say if you are on ignore?
 
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