Christ died for them not appointed to Wrath.

[Clete]

The vessel of wrath is what God made after He found that He was UNABLE to make a vessel of honor because of the recalcitrant nature of the clay.

Jeremiah 18:1 The word which came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying: 2 “Arise and go down to the potter’s house, and there I will cause you to hear My words.” 3 Then I went down to the potter’s house, and there he was, making something at the wheel. 4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter; so he made it again into another vessel, as it seemed good to the potter to make.​

 

[DAN P]

1 Thess 5:9-10

. 9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

I believe this means that the ones appointed to wrath, Christ didnt die for them. Who are they appointed to wrath ? Romans 9 tells us,

Rom 9:21-22

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

The word to make poieō is a verb that has to do with to create.

Its the same word Jesus speaks Matt 19:4

4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

And we know this refers back to creation Gen 5:1-2

This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; 2 male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

So God made some men as vessels of dishonor. The word dishonor atimia means:

dishonour, ignominy, disgrace dishonour (4x), vile (1x), shame (1x), reproach (1x).

In the last day the vessels of wrath will be raised unto shame/contempt and wrath Dan 12:2

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Job speaks of the wicked reserved unto the day of wrath

Job 21:30


that the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.

Now these men Christ did not die for, for what reason would He since He made them for the day of wrath for their sins, they are appointed to it.

BUT those who were made vessels of Mercy, God did not appoint them to wrath, but conversly for them to obtain Salvation. How ? Through the Lord Jesus Christ who died for them.

And to your passage in 1 Thess 5:9 , the word WRATH / ORGE is in the ACCUSATIVE CASE and can mean a Destination or GOAL .

And 1 Thess 5 is speaking about Christ Coming for his ASSEMBLY as written in verse 23 .

What WRATH we will saved from is the GREAT TRIBULATION .

Rev 16:9 and in verse 11 they would NOT REPENT .

Your context is WRONG >

dan p

 

[beloved57]

. In the purpose of God, where election is, so also is reprobation. There can be no “election” if all are chosen. If we ever sing the song of the Lamb of God, we shall sing of both election to grace and reprobation to damnation. That song states: “for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation (Rev. 5:9 ). To redeem us and not them is electing love; to redeem out of a people clearly indicates that some are not redeemed by scp

And those of course not redeemed, were the reprobate God had purposed/appointed to wrath, and of course if they weren't redeemed, Christ could not have died for them, since His Death redeems from the curse of the Law Gal 3:13-14

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

[beloved57]

, in I Thessalonians, Paul joins the two doctrines together thus: “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, (as others) but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ”(5:9). In II Thessalonians, he again joins the two together in an extensive context covering the whole of chapter 2. Of the reprobate, he declares the “man of sin” the “son of perdition” would deceive the reprobate saying: “ . .. and for this cause God shall send them strong delusion that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believe not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” (Verses 11-12), and: “But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit AND belief of the TRUTH: whereunto HE CALLED YOU by our gospel, to obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ” (verses 13-14). Thus, there is no escaping the truth of both election and reprobation. by scp

God has purposely sent the reprobate a strong delusion to believe a lie, that they may be damned ! Christ didnt die for such whom God is set against them believing the Truth as it is in Christ Jesus.

 

[JudgeRightly]

1 Thess 5:9-10

. 9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

I believe this means that the ones appointed to wrath, Christ didnt die for them.

Are the ungodly appointed to wrath?

Who are they appointed to wrath?Romans 9 tells us,

Rom 9:21-22

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Question: In Jeremiah 18, did the Potter ever finish making the first vessel? or did he, before firing it (which, if you know anything about pottery making, hardens the clay), remake the first vessel into another?

So God made some men as vessels of dishonor.

Supra.

Job speaks of the wicked reserved unto the day of wrath

Job 21:30


that the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.

Is there a possibility that people who are not "reserved to the day of destruction" were once part of those that were?

Now these men Christ did not die for, for what reason would He since He made them for the day of wrath for their sins, they are appointed to it.

Who is it that Christ died for, B57? Use scripture to answer, please.

BUT those who were made vessels of Mercy, God did not appoint them to wrath,

Question begging.

How do you know that they weren't ever appointed to wrath, and then after they were saved, their "destiny" was changed to "mercy" rather than "destruction"?

but conversly for them to obtain Salvation. How ? Through the Lord Jesus Christ who died for them.

...

 

[beloved57]

jr

Are the ungodly appointed to wrath?

Yes those who are not elect !

 

[JudgeRightly]

Yes

Who did Christ die for?

those who are not elect!

Why do you assume that anyone whom God died for is "elect"?

Elect just means "chosen to accomplish a task." Why do you think it means something else?

 

[Right Divider]

Elect just means "chosen to accomplish a task." Why do you think it means something else?

b57 seems to believe that Christ was a sinner in need of a savior, since He is called "mine elect" by God.

Isa 42:1 KJV Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

There is SO much confusion in his "understanding" of the Bible.

 

[beloved57]

Who did Christ die for?



Why do you assume that anyone whom God died for is "elect"?

Elect just means "chosen to accomplish a task." Why do you think it means something else?

Christ died for His Sheep/Elect ! I have been testifying to that here for years !

 

[Right Divider]

Christ died for His Sheep/Elect ! I have been testifying to that here for years !

So Christ died for Himself per Isaiah 42:1?

 

[beloved57]

So Christ died for Himself per Isaiah 42:1?

Thats an interesting question. In a sense yes because He died for His Body which He is the Head of, hence He is the Saviour of His Body the Church Eph 5:23

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Just understand Christ the Head wasn't sinful, but His Body the Church is because it fell in Adam, but since Hes the Head, He saves His Body from its sins, having its sins charged to Him by imputation. I dont expect you to understand this though ! I know you will twist this ! But its fine !

 

[JudgeRightly]

Christ died for His Sheep/Elect

Chapter, verse, please.

I have been testifying to that here for years!

Yet that's not what the Bible says.

Whom does the Bible say Christ died for?

 

[beloved57]

Being chosen to Salvation and appointed to wrath everlastingly, are things resolved and established by God before the foundation of the world, before we could do any good or evil Rom 9:11, because this resolution was before anything was created. God according to His Eternal resolutions for us, made us either to be vessels of mercy, to experience His saving mercy or made us to experience His justice and eternal wrath Rom 9:20-23 !

 

[marke]

Being chosen to Salvation and appointed to wrath everlastingly, are things resolved and established by God before the foundation of the world, before we could do any good or evil Rom 9:11, because this resolution was before anything was created. God according to His Eternal resolutions for us, made us either to be vessels of mercy, to experience His saving mercy or made us to experience His justice and eternal wrath Rom 9:20-23 !

God has commanded that all those who reject the Light when shown the Light be condemned to hell for rejecting the Light when they knew better than to do that.

Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 

[Clete]

Being chosen to Salvation and appointed to wrath everlastingly, are things resolved and established by God before the foundation of the world, before we could do any good or evil Rom 9:11, because this resolution was before anything was created. God according to His Eternal resolutions for us, made us either to be vessels of mercy, to experience His saving mercy or made us to experience His justice and eternal wrath Rom 9:20-23 !

Such a god would be unjust, by definition.

God, the real one, is not unjust.

Therefore, the doctrine of unconditional election as taught but Calvinism is false.

 

[Idolater]

1 Thess 5:9-10

. 9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

I believe this means that the ones appointed to wrath, Christ didnt die for them.

Well yeah. Those that are not on the ark, are not saved. The Church is the new ark, 1st Peter 3:

when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Baptism the initiation into the Church.

Who are they appointed to wrath ? Romans 9 tells us,

Rom 9:21-22

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

The word to make poieō is a verb that has to do with to create.

Its the same word Jesus speaks Matt 19:4

4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

And we know this refers back to creation Gen 5:1-2

This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; 2 male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

So God made some men as vessels of dishonor. The word dishonor atimia means:

dishonour, ignominy, disgrace dishonour (4x), vile (1x), shame (1x), reproach (1x).

In the last day the vessels of wrath will be raised unto shame/contempt and wrath Dan 12:2

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Job speaks of the wicked reserved unto the day of wrath

Job 21:30


that the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.

Now these men Christ did not die for, for what reason would He since He made them for the day of wrath for their sins, they are appointed to it.

This is all about the unbaptized. They don't believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. They are not aboard the new ark.

BUT those who were made vessels of Mercy, God did not appoint them to wrath, but conversly for them to obtain Salvation. How ? Through the Lord Jesus Christ who died for them.

And Who is risen for them:

even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Peace to you.

 

[Bradley D]

Such a god would be unjust, by definition.

God, the real one, is not unjust.

Therefore, the doctrine of unconditional election as taught but Calvinism is false.

This was an interesting outlook. Never seen it before.

In Christian theology, conditional election is the belief that God chooses for eternal salvation those whom he foresees will have faith in Christ. This belief emphasizes the importance of a person's free will.

Conditional election - Wikipedia​

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Conditional_election

 

[beloved57]

Well yeah. Those that are not on the ark, are not saved. The Church is the new ark, 1st Peter 3:
Baptism the initiation into the Church.

This is all about the unbaptized. They don't believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. They are not aboard the new ark.

And Who is risen for them:
Peace to you.

You believe the church is the ark, I believe Jesus is the ark !

 

[Right Divider]

Well yeah. Those that are not on the ark, are not saved. The Church is the new ark, 1st Peter 3:

Peter was NOT writing to YOU.

1Pe 1:1 KJV Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

Peter was writing to the SAME people as James:

Jas 1:1 KJV James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

As long as you continue to read other people's mail and think that it's written to you, you will continue to be immensely confused.

Baptism the initiation into the Church.

Maybe into your bogus "Church".

 

[Idolater]

You believe the church is the ark, I believe Jesus is the ark !

So we agree that whatever the ark is, Christ died for those who are aboard the ark, because those aboard the ark are the ones who are saved and who will be saved, just like the people on Noah's ark were saved. He died to save those aboard the ark.