Christ died for them not appointed to Wrath.

Nanja

Well-known member
Christs coming into the world, in addition to His primary redemptive purpose for His People Chosen in Him before the foundation of the world, and to open their eyes spiritually so they may see Isa 42:6-7

6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

There was also a secondary purpose, that was to blind the rest, those not chosen in Him, the reprobate, notice Jn 9:39

39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

There was a people in national israel that Jesus was referring to, Rom 11:7

What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

But this judicial blinding isnt limited to the reprobate jews, it also applies to the reprobate gentiles. It was always Gods purpose to blind them to the truth, and never His intention to convert them by it

Jn 12:40


He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Those having been made blind and their heart hardened according to God's Purpose, proves He has no mercy on them whatsoever, whether they be jew or gentile. For just as you have pointed out Brother, they are nothing but reprobates.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

The same are the seed of the serpent:

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Matt.23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

And the seed of the wicked:

Ps. 37:28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

Matt. 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

2 Pet. 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Rom. 9:22 Vessels of God's Wrath.

Jude 1:4 Ordained / appointed to be condemned

2 Cor. 4:4 Those with blinded minds

John 8:43, 47 the spiritually deaf

Now because these were all appointed to wrath, they have no Salvation in Christ:
He never died on their behalf!
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Those having been made blind and their heart hardened according to God's Purpose, proves He has no mercy on them whatsoever, whether they be jew or gentile. For just as you have pointed out Brother, they are nothing but reprobates.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

The same are the seed of the serpent:

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Matt.23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

And the seed of the wicked:

Ps. 37:28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

Matt. 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

2 Pet. 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Rom. 9:22 Vessels of God's Wrath.

Jude 1:4 Ordained / appointed to be condemned

2 Cor. 4:4 Those with blinded minds

John 8:43, 47 the spiritually deaf

Now because these were all appointed to wrath, they have no Salvation in Christ:
He never died on their behalf!
Praise ye the Lord Sister 🙏
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Another scripture that confirms that some people God created for the day of His Eternal Wrath against their sins is here Prov 16:4

4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

The word for made here is used for maker as in Creator Job 36:3

I will fetch my knowledge from afar, and will ascribe righteousness to my Maker.

God has made the wicked, the vessels of wrath, for His Own Glory in demonstrating His Justice upon them for their sins.

Rom 9:20-22

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
 

Nanja

Well-known member
Another scripture that confirms that some people God created for the day of His Eternal Wrath against their sins is here Prov 16:4

4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

The word for made here is used for maker as in Creator Job 36:3

I will fetch my knowledge from afar, and will ascribe righteousness to my Maker.

God has made the wicked, the vessels of wrath, for His Own Glory in demonstrating His Justice upon them for their sins.

Rom 9:20-22

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Amen Brother, God deliberately Created a portion of mankind for His sole purpose of fitting them to destruction in hell; and of which He is Perfectly Righteous in doing so Rom. 9:22-23; Prov. 16:4; and they are left with no option but to strictly comply with His Purpose. And yet at the same time they are held culpable: God holds them accountable for their sins against His Law by eternally destroying them in the Lake of fire, which is the second death Rev. 21:8.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Amen Brother, God deliberately Created a portion of mankind for His sole purpose of fitting them to destruction in hell; and of which He is Perfectly Righteous in doing so Rom. 9:22-23; Prov. 16:4; and they are left with no option but to strictly comply with His Purpose. And yet at the same time they are held culpable: God holds them accountable for their sins against His Law by eternally destroying them in the Lake of fire, which is the second death Rev. 21:8.
Amen, so the vessels of mercy have a lot to be Thankful for, for not for Gods Purpose of Mercy, there go we also !
 

beloved57

Well-known member
God hides His Truth from the vessels of wrath, for they are permanently lost 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
 

Nanja

Well-known member
God hides His Truth from the vessels of wrath, for they are permanently lost 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

Those whom God hides the Truth from, are those who shall never be given the ability to believe on Christ Mat. 11:25,
but shall remain blinded to it.

Mat. 13:10-11

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
 
Are you agreeing with b57 and claim that salvation can be lost?
He does not believe that salvation can be gained, or be lost; he believes it just is. In all his blustering, he didn't even realize what he did! I was laughing more than you; agreeing, because he says so much crap.

I believe:
1 John 5:18-20, "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."
 

marke

Well-known member
1 Thess 5:9-10

. 9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

I believe this means that the ones appointed to wrath, Christ didnt die for them. Who are they appointed to wrath ? Romans 9 tells us,

Rom 9:21-22

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

The word to make poieō is a verb that has to do with to create.

Its the same word Jesus speaks Matt 19:4

4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

And we know this refers back to creation Gen 5:1-2

This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; 2 male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

So God made some men as vessels of dishonor. The word dishonor atimia means:

dishonour, ignominy, disgrace dishonour (4x), vile (1x), shame (1x), reproach (1x).

In the last day the vessels of wrath will be raised unto shame/contempt and wrath Dan 12:2

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


Job speaks of the wicked reserved unto the day of wrath

Job 21:30


that the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.

Now these men Christ did not die for, for what reason would He since He made them for the day of wrath for their sins, they are appointed to it.

BUT those who were made vessels of Mercy, God did not appoint them to wrath, but conversly for them to obtain Salvation. How ? Through the Lord Jesus Christ who died for them.
Your theology fails to comprehend or explain how those who fell from grace in Romans 1 after having been clearly shown and made to understand God's Word could have been condemned for turning away from what they knew to be the truth.
 

marke

Well-known member
All the Elect. Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. 34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Were those whose names are blotted out of the Book of Life once saved? (Revelation 22.)
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Your theology fails to comprehend or explain how those who fell from grace in Romans 1 after having been clearly shown and made to understand God's Word could have been condemned for turning away from what they knew to be the truth.
Rabbit trail, you talking about things that have no relevance to the OP points.
 

marke

Well-known member
No, and the verse does not say that God blots anyone's name out of the book of life. It says He doesn't.
When I read Revelation 22:19 I am led to believe that anyone who foolishly monkeys around with the Word of God will have his part taken out of the book of life and away from the holy city.
 

OZOS

Well-known member
When I read Revelation 22:19 I am led to believe that anyone who foolishly monkeys around with the Word of God will have his part taken out of the book of life and away from the holy city.
You and I could have a very lengthy discussion on the Greek here, as to whether it is ξύλον of life or βίβλος of life.

In any case, no man who has life no longer has life.
 
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