Can a Jew be saved without believing the Trinity?

Bright Raven

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Jesus is the one true God. You need to come to understand that.

Titus 2:12-13 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
12 [a]instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,
 

Jacob

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Really, then the true question you should have asked on this thread is... Can you believe in the Trinity and still be saved?

Not according to Jesus...

Joh 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You,the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

The belief in the Trinity contradicts Jesus' claims of the one true God whom sent His Christ (the anointed one)
There is only one true God!


Isaiah 44:6 - "Thus says the LORD... there is no God but me."
Isaiah 45:5 - "I am the LORD and there is no other, there is no God besides me."
Isaiah 45:6 - "Men may know that there is none besides me. I am the LORD, there is no other."

Yet... Jesus has a GOD!!!

You do the math... Jesus says eternal life depends on it!

:think: really hard!
Paul

So don't believe in the Trinity because if you do you will not be saved?!
 

Jacob

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Jesus is the one true God. You need to come to understand that.

Titus 2:12-13 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
12 [a]instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

Titus 2:13 NASB - 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

Is it talking about God and our Savior Christ Jesus?
 

Bright Raven

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Titus 2:13 NASB - 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

Is it talking about God and our Savior Christ Jesus?

No, Our God and Savior Jesus Christ. Same person, See Granville-Sharps rule of grammar.
 

Apple7

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Some rule I just briefly looked into, thanks. I am unsure what to do about this.


“Our restatement of Sharp’s rule is believed to be true to the nature of the language, and able to address all classes of exceptions that were raised.

The “Sharper” rule is as follows:

In native Greek constructions (i.e., not translation Greek), when a single article modifies two substantives connected via και (thus, article-substantive-και-substantive), when both substantives are (1) singular (both grammatically and semantically), (2) personal, (3) and common nouns (not proper names or ordinals), they have the same referent.”

Ref:
Granville Sharp’s Canon and its Kin; Semantics and Significance
2009 Daniel B. Wallace
p. 281
 

SabathMoon

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Jesus is the one true God. You need to come to understand that.

Titus 2:12-13 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
12 [a]instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,
Yes the glory of the great god of ours, and the savior Christ Jesus? Some think these are 2 things with the same glory.
 

Jacob

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“Our restatement of Sharp’s rule is believed to be true to the nature of the language, and able to address all classes of exceptions that were raised.

The “Sharper” rule is as follows:

In native Greek constructions (i.e., not translation Greek), when a single article modifies two substantives connected via και (thus, article-substantive-και-substantive), when both substantives are (1) singular (both grammatically and semantically), (2) personal, (3) and common nouns (not proper names or ordinals), they have the same referent.”

Ref:
Granville Sharp’s Canon and its Kin; Semantics and Significance
2009 Daniel B. Wallace
p. 281

Well thank you. With an explanation I have been given I think I understand. At least an application. I am not sure that I understand, but I at least think that I do or may.
 

Clete

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Yes the glory of the great god of ours, and the savior Christ Jesus? Some think these are 2 things with the same glory.

Well, they are two things but they are also the same thing. A single egg has both a shell and a yolk. An egg shell is not the same thing as an egg yolk yet there is only one egg. Likewise, there is one God but there is a purality within the One God that is not fully explained to us.

This plurality can be seen throughout the bible, starting with the very first verse where the plural form of the Hebrew word for God is used with a singular pronoun. Look it up!
 

JudgeRightly

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Echad means one.
That's a milk understanding, Jacob. It means and is used in more ways than just "one."

And considering you've been shown the following before, you're being willfully ignorant, and that's not a good thing.

Here is what echad means.


Strong's h259

- Lexical: אֶחָד
- Transliteration: echad
- Part of Speech: Adjective
- Phonetic Spelling: ekh-awd'
- Definition: one.
- Origin: A numeral from 'achad; properly, united, i.e. One; or (as an ordinal) first.
Spoiler
- Usage: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together,
- Translated as (count): one (480), - (48), of one (30), in one (29), another (23), and one (22), as one (20), of the one (18), the one (15), and the other (12), for one (11), once (11), to one (10), with one (10), any (9), on the first (9), certain (8), on one (7), every one (6), first (6), in the first (6), the other (6), a (5), and another (5), each (5), together (5), of the first (4), other (4), the first (4), at one (3), every (3), for the one (3), had one (3), in any (3), In the eleventh (3), of the other (3), out of every (3), alone (2), as another (2), at once (2), But one (2), by one (2), each one (2), for each (2), from one (2), in another (2), in the one (2), into some (2), let one (2), like one (2), Now in the first (2), of a (2), on a (2), to any (2), to each (2), a few (1), a man (1), against any (1), also another (1), also that one (1), an only (1), and eleven (1), and first (1), and in the one (1), and like one (1), and of the other (1), and on the first (1), and once (1), and the only (1), and with the other (1), any of (1), anything (1), but can one (1), But they are altogether (1), by him? And one (1), by the first (1), each man (1), even as one (1), even one thing (1), few (1), for each one (1), for every (1), for everyone (1), from any (1), From the first (1), have you but one (1), him? and did not one (1), his one (1), in some (1), in the other (1), in unison (1), inside few (1), into any (1), into one (1), is one (1), It is eleven (1), like to one (1), me one (1), not one (1), Now in the eleventh (1), of each (1), of every (1), of them alike (1), of them had one (1), of you a (1), on each (1), on some (1), on the one (1), one him (1), one them (1), out of one (1), shall have one (1), shall one (1), should one (1), single (1), that I may at once (1), that not one (1), that one (1), themselves one (1), There is one (1), This one (1), to and fro (1), to another (1), to every (1), to her a certain (1), to him alone (1), to make one (1), to the one (1), to the other (1), together on the first (1), when none (1), whom alone (1), will be on the other (1), With a single (1).



Did you catch that?

"united"

Examples:

Man and woman are "echad" flesh.

The whole earth had "echad" language and "echad" speech.

Echad means one, but, as Steko just said, it's a compound unity.

The one flesh is made of two bodies, but those two are one.

A language is more than just a single word. It is made up of many words.
 

Jacob

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'Echad' means 'a compound unity'.

'Yachid' means "an absolute singularity'.

Sorry. I can't help you with this. I have done an internet search and the results do not say this. But I do not know how to explain.
 

Jacob

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That's a milk understanding, Jacob. It means and is used in more ways than just "one."

And considering you've been shown the following before, you're being willfully ignorant, and that's not a good thing.

Here is what echad means.


Strong's h259

- Lexical: אֶחָד
- Transliteration: echad
- Part of Speech: Adjective
- Phonetic Spelling: ekh-awd'
- Definition: one.
- Origin: A numeral from 'achad; properly, united, i.e. One; or (as an ordinal) first.
Spoiler
- Usage: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together,
- Translated as (count): one (480), - (48), of one (30), in one (29), another (23), and one (22), as one (20), of the one (18), the one (15), and the other (12), for one (11), once (11), to one (10), with one (10), any (9), on the first (9), certain (8), on one (7), every one (6), first (6), in the first (6), the other (6), a (5), and another (5), each (5), together (5), of the first (4), other (4), the first (4), at one (3), every (3), for the one (3), had one (3), in any (3), In the eleventh (3), of the other (3), out of every (3), alone (2), as another (2), at once (2), But one (2), by one (2), each one (2), for each (2), from one (2), in another (2), in the one (2), into some (2), let one (2), like one (2), Now in the first (2), of a (2), on a (2), to any (2), to each (2), a few (1), a man (1), against any (1), also another (1), also that one (1), an only (1), and eleven (1), and first (1), and in the one (1), and like one (1), and of the other (1), and on the first (1), and once (1), and the only (1), and with the other (1), any of (1), anything (1), but can one (1), But they are altogether (1), by him? And one (1), by the first (1), each man (1), even as one (1), even one thing (1), few (1), for each one (1), for every (1), for everyone (1), from any (1), From the first (1), have you but one (1), him? and did not one (1), his one (1), in some (1), in the other (1), in unison (1), inside few (1), into any (1), into one (1), is one (1), It is eleven (1), like to one (1), me one (1), not one (1), Now in the eleventh (1), of each (1), of every (1), of them alike (1), of them had one (1), of you a (1), on each (1), on some (1), on the one (1), one him (1), one them (1), out of one (1), shall have one (1), shall one (1), should one (1), single (1), that I may at once (1), that not one (1), that one (1), themselves one (1), There is one (1), This one (1), to and fro (1), to another (1), to every (1), to her a certain (1), to him alone (1), to make one (1), to the one (1), to the other (1), together on the first (1), when none (1), whom alone (1), will be on the other (1), With a single (1).



Did you catch that?

"united"

Examples:

Man and woman are "echad" flesh.

The whole earth had "echad" language and "echad" speech.

Echad means one, but, as Steko just said, it's a compound unity.

The one flesh is made of two bodies, but those two are one.

A language is more than just a single word. It is made up of many words.

Strong's? Sorry, I don't trust that.
 

JudgeRightly

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Strong's? Sorry, I don't trust that.
That's your problem. Not mine.

That's what the word means. That's how the word is used in the Bible.

If you can't accept that, then there's nothing I can do about it.
 

Jacob

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That's your problem. Not mine.

That's what the word means. That's how the word is used in the Bible.

If you can't accept that, then there's nothing I can do about it.

I am going to say the same thing to steko. When I think of plural I think of two or three or more, a couple or a few or more. I don't think one or more.
 
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