Bob's Hydroplate Seminar in Indianapolis

[Stripe]

Are you suggesting that the radioactivity produced by the flood is the cause of speciation from the original Biblical kinds? Over what period of time did that work? Did it affect Noah and his children? Their children?

How much energy was released by his trillions of H-bomb equivalents and where did it go? Was the process 1005 efficient? How much heat did all that supercritical water produce when the pressure was released and it turned to steam?

Not true, I have read it.

:mock: Jukia's reading skills.

 

[Jukia]

:down: Don't blame others for your own choices. Start there. TOL has no power of the sort some of you try and make it. Own your own choices!

Sure, understanding the real world made me realize there was no god, it is all chemistry and physics. TOL just put the cherry on the sundae.

And I guess your suggestion applies to everyone, even those who claim a personal relationship with Jesus saved them? Nothing to do with Jesus, just a personal choice. I can buy that.

 

[Stripe]

Sure, understanding the real world made me realize there was no god, it is all chemistry and physics. TOL just put the cherry on the sundae.And I guess your suggestion applies to everyone, even those who claim a personal relationship with Jesus saved them? Nothing to do with Jesus, just a personal choice. I can buy that.

Jukia to family: I chemistry and physics you guys. lain:

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

AMR. Am I a Christian--nope, thanks in large part to TOL.

Then your reasoning is more faulty for you rest that which you affirm on the acts of others rather than your own faculties. Despite our corruption we are able to make choices, said choices always according to our greatest inclinations. That you are not a believer is nothing more than your greatest inclination to not be a believer. When the day comes to answer for your decision will you simply point to another and claim "It was AMR's fault"? Odd that is, no?

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Are you suggesting that the radioactivity produced by the flood is the cause of speciation from the original Biblical kinds? Over what period of time did that work? Did it affect Noah and his children? Their children?

How much energy was released by his trillions of H-bomb equivalents and where did it go? Was the process 1005 efficient? How much heat did all that supercritical water produce when the pressure was released and it turned to steam?

Huh?

You caviled about two issues. I answered them both. Do not confuse the answers. Species has nothing to do with the energy related issue.

Again, see the book in question. You are seeking the Cliff-Notes version of complex matters and that just will not do. The book is inexpensive and worth the cost...about a couple of six-packs or a nice meal with cloth napkins. The electronic version is also searchable so you can dig as deep as you wish. Afterwards, the conversation will move forward. You seem to have entrenched yourself but mud slung is ground lost. Can you not see this?

AMR

 

[DavisBJ]

Jukia offered:

AMR. Am I a Christian--nope, thanks in large part to TOL.

AMR seems wont to read this as a personal sleight directed at him:

Then your reasoning is more faulty for you rest that which you affirm on the acts of others rather than your own faculties. Despite our corruption we are able to make choices, said choices always according to our greatest inclinations. That you are not a believer is nothing more than your greatest inclination to not be a believer. When the day comes to answer for your decision will you simply point to another and claim "It was AMR's fault"? Odd that is, no?

AMR

I am a bit surprised (well, not really) at the disparaging criticism being heaped on Jukia for what looks to be a straightforward, and frequently seen, type of claim. Knight, Enyart, and a number of TOL members have often spoken of TOL as a worthy place to see Christianity presented. Julia expresses in very ordinary terms that his experience at TOL was a contributor to his personal decisions about Christianity. I fail to see that Jukia’s acknowledgement of TOL’s place in that choice is materially any different than AMR or others speaking of some of the sources they relied on for their information about Christianity, and for watching how Christians actually conduct themselves when challenged. Jukia certainly does not disavow that his decision as regards Christianity was indeed his. Why the gratuitous slander against Jukia?

 

[Lighthouse]

:down: Don't blame others for your own choices. Start there. TOL has no power of the sort some of you try and make it. Own your own choices!

Agreed.

 

[WizardofOz]

Why the gratuitous slander against Jukia?

:liberals:
What gratuitous slander?

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Jukia offered:

AMR seems wont to read this as a personal sleight directed at him:

I am a bit surprised (well, not really) at the disparaging criticism being heaped on Jukia for what looks to be a straightforward, and frequently seen, type of claim. Knight, Enyart, and a number of TOL members have often spoken of TOL as a worthy place to see Christianity presented. Julia expresses in very ordinary terms that his experience at TOL was a contributor to his personal decisions about Christianity. I fail to see that Jukia’s acknowledgement of TOL’s place in that choice is materially any different than AMR or others speaking of some of the sources they relied on for their information about Christianity, and for watching how Christians actually conduct themselves when challenged. Jukia certainly does not disavow that his decision as regards Christianity was indeed his. Why the gratuitous slander against Jukia?

Jukia's behavior is nothing "ordinary". The facts are plain. I offered responses and Jukia decided to question my quantitative skills without provocation. So there is that as relates to me and the evidence is plainly seen. All I see is a veiled agenda to mock and howl about so-called "junk science" on behalf of Jukia. Why come into someone's house and insult your hosts? :idunno:

If Jukia is concerned about his soul, then TOL is not the place to be sorting things out. Attempting to lay the burden of his eternal destiny at TOL's feet is just more sarcasm and desperation. Why God haters feel required to populate discussions that have nothing to do with them while demonstrating that hatred always bemuses me. Rather they would carry on their hatred of God in venues where the same is welcomed. I am reasonably confident God hating is not welcomed here and one would think persons with advanced degrees in biology and so on would be quicker on the uptake in discerning the same.

No, Jukia has not been wrongly treated. His pretense to understand masks a prideful desire to point out just how educated he is among us poor Christian rubes. I saw it in but a few posts and I suspect those that have been dealing with Jukia for much longer would testify to the same.

AMR

 

[Nathon Detroit]

AMR. Am I a Christian--nope, thanks in large part to TOL.

:rotfl:

Post like that always crack me up.

 

[DavisBJ]

:liberals:
What gratuitous slander?

I am trying to speak civilly and rationally to an issue. If you don’t see what I am saying, then either you are being intentionally disingenuous, or your reading comprehension is wildly out of sync with mine. In neither case do I see any benefit in carrying on a non-productive exchange with you.

 

[WizardofOz]

I am trying to speak civilly and rationally to an issue. If you don’t see what I am saying, then either you are being intentionally disingenuous, or your reading comprehension is wildly out of sync with mine. In neither case do I see any benefit in carrying on a non-productive exchange with you.

That's funny as I'm about as neutral a party as you'll find. Is it possible that you're exaggerating? I've read nothing that can be construed as slander. Quote it, perhaps?

 

[DavisBJ]

Jukia's behavior is nothing "ordinary". The facts are plain. I offered responses and Jukia decided to question my quantitative skills without provocation. So there is that as relates to me and the evidence is plainly seen. All I see is a veiled agenda to mock and howl about so-called "junk science" on behalf of Jukia. Why come into someone's house and insult your hosts? :idunno:

In the specific post from Jukia that you responded to Jukia did no more than make an unambiguous statement to the effect that his experience at TOL was a factor in his attitude towards Christianity. Why do you insist on making his simple statement into far more than he said? If in other posts he does “question (your) quantitative skills”, then in your response to those posts is the appropriate place to handle that issue. But nowhere in the post being spoken of does he do anything of the sort.

If Jukia is concerned about his soul, then TOL is not the place to be sorting things out. Attempting to lay the burden of his eternal destiny at TOL's feet is just more sarcasm and desperation.

It is not a credit to your claim of having substantial engineering experience or of being qualified as university teacher when you keep making far more of Jukia’s words than he actually said. Once again, Jukia said TOL was a distinct factor in his choice to not be a Christian. Perhaps his reading of the Bible itself was also a distinct factor, or his seeing pervasive dishonesty among professing Christians that he knew was a factor, or (fill in all the other sources that might have been significant in him not wanting to be a Christian). You saying he is “lay(ing) the burden of his eternal destiny at TOL's feet” is a prime example of a professing Christian at TOL dishonestly stretching what was said into something more than was said.

Why God haters feel required to populate discussions that have nothing to do with them while demonstrating that hatred always bemuses me. Rather they would carry on their hatred of God in venues where the same is welcomed. I am reasonably confident God hating is not welcomed here and one would think persons with advanced degrees in biology and so on would be quicker on the uptake in discerning the same.

Whatever may be your feelings on non-believers participating at TOL, Jukia made a simple statement that you just won’t take as it was written.

No, Jukia has not been wrongly treated. His pretense to understand masks a prideful desire to point out just how educated he is among us poor Christian rubes. I saw it in but a few posts and I suspect those that have been dealing with Jukia for much longer would testify to the same.

AMR

Ok, Christian, I accept your inability to take Jukia’s post at face value. In so doing you have added a data point, not on the pro-Christian side of the ledger.

 

[Jukia]

DavisBJ: Don't lose any sleep over it. There is little rationality in fundamentalist religion as shown by the fact that someone with advanced degrees in math and engineering can take the position that Walter Brown reflects the real world.

Or perhaps I touched a nerve.

 

[DavisBJ]

That's funny as I'm about as neutral a party as you'll find. Is it possible that you're exaggerating? I've read nothing that can be construed as slander. Quote it, perhaps?

QED

 

[WizardofOz]

QED

Nice try. Slander? :nono: not by a long shot.

You've got pseudo-science and jukia trolling the thread. He was being just as much of a jerk as anyone if you read the entire thread.

You're clearly exaggerating. Otherwise quote what you feel is slander.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

DavisBJ: Don't lose any sleep over it. There is little rationality in fundamentalist religion as shown by the fact that someone with advanced degrees in math and engineering can take the position that Walter Brown reflects the real world.

Or perhaps I touched a nerve.

Q.E.D.

AMR

 

[Stripe]

Why do conversations with evolutionists always wind up about who said what? :sigh:

 

[Lon]

Sure, understanding the real world made me realize there was no god, it is all chemistry and physics. TOL just put the cherry on the sundae.

Not what you said. You were trying to put undue blame.

And I guess your suggestion applies to everyone, even those who claim a personal relationship with Jesus saved them? Nothing to do with Jesus, just a personal choice. I can buy that.

When it comes to 'blame.' :doh: I worry more about you atheists' intelligence than our own.
You guys aren't looking for intelligence, you are looking for excuses, so there you go.

 

[Jukia]

Not what you said. You were trying to put undue blame.



When it comes to 'blame.' :doh: I worry more about you atheists' intelligence than our own.
You guys aren't looking for intelligence, you are looking for excuses, so there you go.

Seems to me I was really trying to give appropriate credit to TOL, that OK with you. Blame might suggest there was something wrong with the advice I took from the broadcast. the opposite is true.

And I don't think that my post had much to do with intelligence, although I guess if one wishes to rate the level of intelligence of a person based on whether or not they think the universe is 6000 +/-years old---well go right ahead