Bob's Hydroplate Seminar in Indianapolis

[Lighthouse]

Wait, Jukia is a woman? :idunno:

I just assumed.

Nope, I tend to like to read science

So, this entire time you've been asking for something you're not even going to read? No wonder you won't look for it.

Hi Jukia! Hey, if that is the real question, I'm sure glad we've been spared the fake ones.

:chuckle:

Sigh. I assumed you were genuinely interested and not merely wanting to mock. I do possess an advanced degree in engineering and mathematics, and find the man's views very plausible. Rather than wave off his views I availed myself of the opportunity to read his book. Why do you refuse to do the same? Just forming opinions based upon scant discussion forums is a wee bit intellectually lazy, no?

AMR

You should have known better. Why do you think Stripe and I have been giving Jokia the runaround?

 

[chatmaggot]

I have an advanced degree in biology, therefore I find the whole need to develop all extant species from a world wide flood a few thousand years ago to be silly and without any evidential foundation. The idea of the energy release of, sorry I forget the # but recall at least billions if not trillions of H-bomb equivalents to be beyond silly and am astonished that someone with a decent math/engineering background could consider it for more than a millisecond.

Bottom line is --if you got the science publish in the scientific literature, not some self published claptrap.

And yet you believe that everything that exists came from absolutely nothing. NOTHING!

As an experiment I would like for you to take nothing and then make something material from nothing. You can make anything you want. You just have to start with nothing.

Having an advanced degree indicates that you are intelligent. I want to see if you, an intelligent being, can design and create something from nothing.

 

[Jukia]

And yet you believe that everything that exists came from absolutely nothing. NOTHING!

As an experiment I would like for you to take nothing and then make something material from nothing. You can make anything you want. You just have to start with nothing.

Having an advanced degree indicates that you are intelligent. I want to see if you, an intelligent being, can design and create something from nothing.

Maybe I already did. How would you know? And if I did not, did your particular god do it? How do you know that? Maybe it was a Hindu god? Maybe Thor? Maybe the Raven did it? Or the butler?

 

[chatmaggot]

Maybe I already did. How would you know? And if I did not, did your particular god do it? How do you know that? Maybe it was a Hindu god? Maybe Thor? Maybe the Raven did it? Or the butler?

What are you talking about? I simply asked you if you, an intelligent being, could make something from nothing? What does that have to do with my butler?

 

[DavisBJ]

And yet you believe that everything that exists came from absolutely nothing.

On its surface, it seems that “everything that exists” is a simple concept, but I am not so sure that is true. For example, is God part of everything that exists?

I want to see if you, an intelligent being, can design and create something from nothing.

What is the purpose of this question? There are lots of things that an intelligent being might understand, yet not be able to do.

 

[Jukia]

Chat: Sorry for my snarky post, my TOL attitude recently has been affected by Stripe, who once again is on ignore and with any luck I will be sensible enough to keep it there. No, of course I cannot make something out of nothing. But the issue I believe you were trying to get to is where did everything come from. Best we know the Big Bang 14-15 billion years ago. And no, I cannot explain it. Nor can I explain how life began. Both of those happened a long, long time ago in physical conditions that were greatly different than they are today. But being unable to explain something is not the same as requiring your particular creator, or any creator. If you need a First Source, a Prime Mover, where does it stop? Turtles all the way down?

My original post was a question regarding how someone with degrees in math and engineering could consider Brown's theory for more than few moments. It is made up to satisfy the myth of Genesis. If there were any validity to it why not publish in the real scientific literature? It is a "theory", not in the standard science theory model, but one based on wild guesses and lack of evidence.

 

[fool]

His problem is that he is a bigot. There are no miracles involved. Just science.

Wait a minute, this wasn't a miracle?
Then how do you know God did it?

 

[Lon]

If you are going to be there could you do me a favor? STALL HIM!

Do whatever it takes to delay Bob until I get there. Start a debate about how public schools are a good choice to educate your children or how churches should continue preaching "Judge Not" or even try to convince Bob that OJ Simpson was innocent. Just do anything so that he starts about a half-hour late so I can get there.

Thank you.

Thank goodness for the few inches of snow we got here in Indy this morning. They delayed for about 45 minutes!

WOW! Just checking, was prayer involved?

 

[Lighthouse]

And yet you believe that everything that exists came from absolutely nothing. NOTHING!

As an experiment I would like for you to take nothing and then make something material from nothing. You can make anything you want. You just have to start with nothing.

Having an advanced degree indicates that you are intelligent. I want to see if you, an intelligent being, can design and create something from nothing.

Wait a minute, this wasn't a miracle?
Then how do you know God did it?

Why do you assume God only works in miracles?

 

[Stripe]

Chat: Sorry for my snarky post, my TOL attitude recently has been affected by Stripe, who once again is on ignore and with any luck I will be sensible enough to keep it there.

Dude, get over yourself.

My original post was a question regarding how someone with degrees in math and engineering could consider Brown's theory for more than few moments. It is made up to satisfy the myth of Genesis. If there were any validity to it why not publish in the real scientific literature? It is a "theory", not in the standard science theory model, but one based on wild guesses and lack of evidence.

Given that you have made zero effort to analyze the efforts of a guy trained in math and engineering, your opposition is worthless.

Wait a minute, this wasn't a miracle?

I prefer to claim miracle only when there is next to no chance that the event described could have had a natural explanation. There are a couple of items from the flood account that are miracles, but generally speaking it was a natural, though unrepeatable, event.

Then how do you know God did it?

Because of what He said.

 

[GuySmiley]

It is a "theory", not in the standard science theory model, but one based on wild guesses and lack of evidence.

Serious question: How do you know this?

You won't read Brown's book, or even google the topic. You know nothing about it. Yet, you are always in these threads like white on rice. Try to step back from yourself and look at what that says about you to other people.

 

[Lighthouse]

Serious question: How do you know this?

You won't read Brown's book, or even google the topic. You know nothing about it. Yet, you are always in these threads like white on rice. Try to step back from yourself and look at what that says about you to other people.

Yup.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

I have an advanced degree in biology, therefore I find the whole need to develop all extant species from a world wide flood a few thousand years ago to be silly and without any evidential foundation. The idea of the energy release of, sorry I forget the # but recall at least billions if not trillions of H-bomb equivalents to be beyond silly and am astonished that someone with a decent math/engineering background could consider it for more than a millisecond.

Bottom line is --if you got the science publish in the scientific literature, not some self published claptrap.

Are you a Christian? The "kinds" in the Genesis account are not the "species" normally assumed by science today. Think about radioactivity and the energy released issue of the flood...for more than a millisecond...and it will come to you.

By the way, thank you for the back-handed slap as relates to my ability to understand the mathematics involved. I guess all the companies that paid me to perform engineering work over the past thirty years or so were just being bamboozled by me. Add to that the universities that employed me to teach engineering fundamentals. Or, lastly, the state of California that gave me my engineering license after a day long examination testing my knowledge of said domain. Next time you make a call on a cell phone, think of me. I designed some of the fundamental aspects of the protocols and the hardware that make these devices and their supporting infrastructure (big iron base stations, switches, etc.) all work together. Just sayin'.

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

And yet you believe that everything that exists came from absolutely nothing. NOTHING!

As an experiment I would like for you to take nothing and then make something material from nothing. You can make anything you want. You just have to start with nothing.

Having an advanced degree indicates that you are intelligent. I want to see if you, an intelligent being, can design and create something from nothing.

Sort of like walking along a beach and finding a Rolex and thinking, wow, that just popped into existence. Sigh.

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Jukia is one empirical data point of the folly of evidential apologetics, as if one can argue someone into Heaven. The facts are that the non-believer hates God and his thought processes are faulty from the effects of the Fall such that he suppresses what he knows to be true and exchanges that truth for a lie.

Arguing with the non-believer about extra-Biblical "evidence" presumes a neutral ground exists between the believer and the non-believer. No such neutrality exists. Unless the non-believer can be shown that his "truths" fallaciously borrow from the intellectual capital of the believer, the conversation cannot proceed.

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Oh, thanks Stripey, you referred me to something called "Google", my, my I wonder what that is?

Of course if you really cared about my immortal soul you would point me directly at the appropriate reference in Dr. Brown's work. But alas, you lack that basic Christian item---charity.

Here you go. The answer lies therein.

AMR

 

[Jukia]

Serious question: How do you know this?

You won't read Brown's book, or even google the topic. You know nothing about it. Yet, you are always in these threads like white on rice. Try to step back from yourself and look at what that says about you to other people.

Not true, I have read it.

 

[Jukia]

AMR. Am I a Christian--nope, thanks in large part to TOL.

 

[Jukia]

Are you a Christian? The "kinds" in the Genesis account are not the "species" normally assumed by science today. Think about radioactivity and the energy released issue of the flood...for more than a millisecond...and it will come to you.

By the way, thank you for the back-handed slap as relates to my ability to understand the mathematics involved. I guess all the companies that paid me to perform engineering work over the past thirty years or so were just being bamboozled by me. Add to that the universities that employed me to teach engineering fundamentals. Or, lastly, the state of California that gave me my engineering license after a day long examination testing my knowledge of said domain. Next time you make a call on a cell phone, think of me. I designed some of the fundamental aspects of the protocols and the hardware that make these devices and their supporting infrastructure (big iron base stations, switches, etc.) all work together. Just sayin'.

AMR

Are you suggesting that the radioactivity produced by the flood is the cause of speciation from the original Biblical kinds? Over what period of time did that work? Did it affect Noah and his children? Their children?

How much energy was released by his trillions of H-bomb equivalents and where did it go? Was the process 1005 efficient? How much heat did all that supercritical water produce when the pressure was released and it turned to steam?

 

[Lon]

AMR. Am I a Christian--nope, thanks in large part to TOL.

:down: Don't blame others for your own choices. Start there. TOL has no power of the sort some of you try and make it. Own your own choices!