Bob's Hydroplate Seminar in Indianapolis

Ask Mr. Religion

☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) &#9
Gold Subscriber
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
In the specific post from Jukia that you responded to Jukia did no more than make an unambiguous statement to the effect that his experience at TOL was a factor in his attitude towards Christianity. Why do you insist on making his simple statement into far more than he said? If in other posts he does “question (your) quantitative skills”, then in your response to those posts is the appropriate place to handle that issue. But nowhere in the post being spoken of does he do anything of the sort.

It is not a credit to your claim of having substantial engineering experience or of being qualified as university teacher when you keep making far more of Jukia’s words than he actually said. Once again, Jukia said TOL was a distinct factor in his choice to not be a Christian. Perhaps his reading of the Bible itself was also a distinct factor, or his seeing pervasive dishonesty among professing Christians that he knew was a factor, or (fill in all the other sources that might have been significant in him not wanting to be a Christian). You saying he is “lay(ing) the burden of his eternal destiny at TOL's feet” is a prime example of a professing Christian at TOL dishonestly stretching what was said into something more than was said.

Whatever may be your feelings on non-believers participating at TOL, Jukia made a simple statement that you just won’t take as it was written.

Ok, Christian, I accept your inability to take Jukia’s post at face value. In so doing you have added a data point, not on the pro-Christian side of the ledger.

Seems to me I was really trying to give appropriate credit to TOL, that OK with you. Blame might suggest there was something wrong with the advice I took from the broadcast. the opposite is true.

And I don't think that my post had much to do with intelligence, although I guess if one wishes to rate the level of intelligence of a person based on whether or not they think the universe is 6000 +/-years old---well go right ahead
BJ,

As indicated in Jukia's vitriol above, my earlier point is made. Your rise to his defense, while admirable, is clearly misplaced.

AMR
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Why do conversations with evolutionists always wind up about who said what? :sigh:

Misdirection is a form of deception in which the attention of an audience is focused on one thing in order to distract its attention from another.

Managing the audience's attention is the aim of all Theater, it is the foremost requirement of Theatrical Magic. Whether the Magic is of a "pocket trick" variety, or, a large stage production in Las Vegas, misdirection is the central secret of all Magic.

Speaking of Misdirection, Nevil Maskelyne wrote, "It consists admittedly in misleading the spectator's senses, in order to screen from detection certain details for which secrecy is required." (Our Magic, page 117, second edition copyright 1946)

"Nearly the whole art of sleight of hand depends on this art of misdirection." (Harlan Tarbell, The Tarbell Course in Magic Vol. 1)
 

DavisBJ

New member
BJ,

As indicated in Jukia's vitriol above, my earlier point is made. Your rise to his defense, while admirable, is clearly misplaced.

AMR
I realize Jukia is not well liked by many in the creationist camp. I often see him asking for supporting evidence or citations from creationists who say something he may not agree with. He may do all kinds of things like that that you find distasteful. But that being said, earlier in this thread I saw a simply worded statement from Jukia in which he said that TOL was a factor in his feelings toward your faith. In spite of your abject refusal to admit it, he did not say that his lack of belief was “AMR’s fault” (your wording), nor “to lay the burden of his eternal destiny at TOL's feet” (again your words).

I admit that if you seamlessly mix Jukia’s simple statement into the mass of anti-Christian things he has said in other posts, then you could levy all kinds of charges against him. But it is sad that you are incapable of letting a simple statement from Jukia stand on its own merits. It is as if you and your wife had a disagreement, and then later you said, “Look dear, I am going outside for a few minutes”, and she is offended because she interprets that as a declaration from you that you don’t want to be around her any more.

Tell me – if Jukia wanted to say that TOL was a factor in his attitude towards Christianity, does he have to explicitly add a bunch of qualifiers “not the only important factor”, “not just you, AMR”, etc?

Anyway, I think this silly horse has been beat more than to death. I am perfectly satisfied with letting any interested reader peruse the posts above and judge for themselves whether or not the Christian response to Jukia’s post was a bit exaggerated. I am going to let the subject drop, unless someone has something material to say that is important. If you, or any of the Christian community feel further need to try to salvage some mileage out of this, be my guest.
 
Last edited:

Lon

Well-known member
Seems to me I was really trying to give appropriate credit to TOL, that OK with you. Blame might suggest there was something wrong with the advice I took from the broadcast. the opposite is true.
Seemed like a 'blame-game' to me at the time. If you are thanking them, well that's a bit different but you still shouldn't be a dupe. Think for yourself.
And I don't think that my post had much to do with intelligence, although I guess if one wishes to rate the level of intelligence of a person based on whether or not they think the universe is 6000 +/-years old---well go right ahead
I might. At least I'm not an 'uncritical' dupe. I've had these classes and raised my hand enough to know which were best guesses and which are sound and reliable.
 

Lon

Well-known member
I realize Jukia is not well liked by many in the creationist camp. I often see him asking for supporting evidence or citations from creationists who say something he may not agree with. He may do all kinds of things like that that you find distasteful. But that being said, earlier in this thread I saw a simply worded statement from Jukia in which he said that TOL was a factor in his feelings toward your faith. In spite of your abject refusal to admit it, he did not say that his lack of belief was “AMR’s fault” (your wording), nor “to lay the burden of his eternal destiny at TOL's feet” (again your words).

I admit that if you seamlessly mix Jukia’s simple statement into the mass of anti-Christian things he has said in other posts, then you could levy all kinds of charges against him. But it is sad that you are incapable of letting a simple statement from Jukia stand on its own merits. It is as if you and your wife had a disagreement, and then later you said, “Look dear, I am going outside for a few minutes”, and she is offended because she interprets that as a declaration from you that you don’t want to be around her any more.

Tell me – if Jukia wanted to say that TOL was a factor in his attitude towards Christianity, does he have to explicitly add a bunch of qualifiers “not the only important factor”, “not just you, AMR”, etc?

Anyway, I think this silly horse has been beat more than to death. I am perfectly satisfied with letting any interested reader peruse the posts above and judge for themselves whether or not the Christian response to Jukia’s post was a bit exaggerated. I am going to let the subject drop, unless someone has something material to say that is important. If you, or any of the Christian community feel further need to try to salvage some mileage out of this, be my guest.
Again, seemed like a blame-game. Even if he's happy with it, it is still a negative I want no association with. On top of that, I've endeavored to show that God is real and actual so "TOL making a person an atheist" is a bit of a smack that doesn't quite ring true. Don't blame me for your atheism. I've tried so such is a trite assessment as far as I and others' on TOL I"ve seen. So yeah, I take exception. If he meant:
Wow I was looking toward Christianity and all this stuff about love and not being able to do things that could potentially harm others is really not my bag"
Then okay.
 

Jukia

New member
Seemed like a 'blame-game' to me at the time. If you are thanking them, well that's a bit different but you still shouldn't be a dupe. Think for yourself.

I might. At least I'm not an 'uncritical' dupe. I've had these classes and raised my hand enough to know which were best guesses and which are sound and reliable.

Yeah, I've followed some of your discussions. I am not impressed, but don't let that bother you.
 

Jukia

New member
Again, seemed like a blame-game. Even if he's happy with it, it is still a negative I want no association with. On top of that, I've endeavored to show that God is real and actual so "TOL making a person an atheist" is a bit of a smack that doesn't quite ring true. Don't blame me for your atheism. I've tried so such is a trite assessment as far as I and others' on TOL I"ve seen. So yeah, I take exception. If he meant: Then okay.

Your endeavor has not been worth it. Might as well endeavor to show unicorns are real and actual. But thanks for trying.
 

Ask Mr. Religion

☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) &#9
Gold Subscriber
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Vitriol? What must you think of Nick M?

We have our serious differences and if you have examined my past posts you would know this. I have pointed out to you the need to look over the posts of others before weighing in, just as I did in your case before my first response to you. So now what?

AMR
 

Jukia

New member
We have our serious differences and if you have examined my past posts you would know this. I have pointed out to you the need to look over the posts of others before weighing in, just as I did in your case before my first response to you. So now what?

AMR

Now what? Nothing. You will continue to find credibility in Brown and I will continue to yawn
 

Ask Mr. Religion

☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) &#9
Gold Subscriber
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Now what? Nothing. You will continue to find credibility in Brown and I will continue to yawn

I see. Your question regarding Nick was but "nana nana boo boo".

Got it. Carry on, then.

AMR
 

Lon

Well-known member
Yeah, I've followed some of your discussions. I am not impressed, but don't let that bother you.
Well, when you then turn around and say we are to blame?

My point is, your soul is between you and God. You cannot say "Hey, your people suck so you must not be there." That isn't a 'necessary' conclusion. It happens to be a 'convenient' one. That's all I'm saying.

If you don't want God, don't blame me. I am, however, flattered by the latter, even if it ultimately wasn't impression worthy. That you 'bothered' is a humbling compliment, so thank you (sincerely).

Uh oh...

Your endeavor has not been worth it. Might as well endeavor to show unicorns are real and actual. But thanks for trying.
:chuckle: I might disregard this entirely if you don't mind. With the above givens, this seems insincere to me (beside that, I think your own mind and make up too incredible to deny. There is much more evidence of God than mythical beasts, by way of my bold assertion that I don't believe you can withstand the force of - it is powerful evidentiary).
 

Jukia

New member
Well, when you then turn around and say we are to blame?

My point is, your soul is between you and God. You cannot say "Hey, your people suck so you must not be there." That isn't a 'necessary' conclusion. It happens to be a 'convenient' one. That's all I'm saying.

If you don't want God, don't blame me. I am, however, flattered by the latter, even if it ultimately wasn't impression worthy. That you 'bothered' is a humbling compliment, so thank you (sincerely).

Uh oh...


:chuckle: I might disregard this entirely if you don't mind. With the above givens, this seems insincere to me (beside that, I think your own mind and make up too incredible to deny. There is much more evidence of God than mythical beasts, by way of my bold assertion that I don't believe you can withstand the force of - it is powerful evidentiary).

Okey dokey.
 
Top