Biblical Flat Enclosed Earth and Firmament

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Derf

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When Derf and ktoyou first posted about turning the earth upside down I thought of plowing.

But after reading and thinking about the other verses this came to mind.

The earth is cleaned and dissolved in liquification during a quake.

This less than two minute video has most of the aspects of Isaiah 24.

It seems to be describing an earth quake not a wobbling reeling(spinning) globe.

18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.

19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.

20The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

That's a pretty wild video. Reminds me of the story of the Korahite rebellion.
[Num 16:31-33 KJV] 31 And it came to pass, as he had made an end of speaking all these words, that the ground clave asunder that [was] under them: 32 And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that [appertained] unto Korah, and all [their] goods. 33 They, and all that [appertained] to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation.
 

Derf

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When Derf and ktoyou first posted about turning the earth upside down I thought of plowing.

But after reading and thinking about the other verses this came to mind.

The earth is cleaned and dissolved in liquification during a quake.

This less than two minute video has most of the aspects of Isaiah 24.

It seems to be describing an earth quake not a wobbling reeling(spinning) globe.

18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.

19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.

20The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

That last verse makes me think it's a more local thing, and speaks of a nation not recovering. It could also be an end-of-the-world scenario, I suppose, but "fall and not rise again" doesn't seem to be associated with a whole earth scenario to me.

But "reeling" like a drunkard certainly can be a local phenomenon during an earthquake.

I keep going back to the idea that these passages don't say anything about the shape of the earth--only about what happens to it (all or part of it).
 

patrick jane

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I don't agree with Henry on everything. But the context of Is 24 is more suggestive of the more local effects. Henry talks some about the same word used for "earth" and "land", suggesting that it really does probably mean more than just the land of Israel or the land of a single nation. But then he said it was talking most likely about the Assyrian or Babylonian invasions.

My point is that much of the prophecies are colorful language that could symbolize, rather than verbalize, what's going to happen. If the "earth will be shaken", that doesn't necessarily mean the whole earth, and it might not always mean there will be an earthquake, just like the world wasn't really turned upside down by the spread of the gospel, as in Acts 17:6. Could Acts 17:6 refer to the same thing as Is 24:1?

Guzik equates the two passages, and maybe that's appropriate, but if the Isaiah passages were originally intended for the audience that first received them, then they must have also had a more immediate fulfillment, even if they also were intended for our time and more remote fulfillment. (I have a thread where I discuss more immediate vs remote fulfillment of prophecies. It seems to me that if the purpose of a prophecy is to get people to repent prior to an imminent threat, the efficiency of the prophecy is highly decreased over time.

Guzik seems to presume his own interpretation is correct and builds on what that means. This is what we are all struggling with in the flat earth discussion. We presume a model from which to interpret the bible. In some instances that isn't a bad thing to do. But if we get anything wrong in our model, it's hard to go back and fix just that part--we tend to need to start over completely, like when you botch a sudoku puzzle and don't realize for awhile.

I think I see this "starting over" aspect of the flat earth movement. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it can be bad if we then presume we know the whole truth when we are seeing it for the first time.
Great points but I disagree about the words that God chooses. I believe that everything we need to know is preserved in His words and that God speaks plainly and clearly, not in parables like Jesus or "colorful" language to "spruce" up the "story" - below, Peter's words are speaking of the knowledge of Christ but it also pertains to us today.

Job 26:1-3 KJV -
But Job answered and said,
2 How hast thou helped him that is without power? how savest thou the arm that hath no strength?
3How hast thou counselled him that hath no wisdom? and how hast thou plentifully declared the thing as it is?

2 Peter 1:1-8 KJV -
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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patrick jane

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Habakkuk 3 - KJV -
A prayer of Habakkuk the prophet upon Shigionoth.
2O Lord, I have heard thy speech, and was afraid: O Lord, revive thy work in the midst of the years, in the midst of the years make known; in wrath remember mercy.
3 God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of his praise.
4 And his brightness was as the light; he had horns coming out of his hand: and there was the hiding of his power.
5 Before him went the pestilence, and burning coals went forth at his feet.
6 He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting.
7 I saw the tents of Cushan in affliction: and the curtains of the land of Midian did tremble.
8 Was the Lord displeased against the rivers? was thine anger against the rivers? was thy wrath against the sea, that thou didst ride upon thine horses and thy chariots of salvation?
9 Thy bow was made quite naked, according to the oaths of the tribes, even thy word. Selah. Thou didst cleave the earth with rivers.
10 The mountains saw thee, and they trembled: the overflowing of the water passed by: the deep uttered his voice, and lifted up his hands on high.
11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.
12 Thou didst march through the land in indignation, thou didst thresh the heathen in anger.
13 Thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people, even for salvation with thine anointed; thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. Selah.
14 Thou didst strike through with his staves the head of his villages: they came out as a whirlwind to scatter me: their rejoicing was as to devour the poor secretly.
15 Thou didst walk through the sea with thine horses, through the heap of great waters.
16 When I heard, my belly trembled; my lips quivered at the voice: rottenness entered into my bones, and I trembled in myself, that I might rest in the day of trouble: when he cometh up unto the people, he will invade them with his troops.
17 Although the fig tree shall not blossom, neither shall fruit be in the vines; the labour of the olive shall fail, and the fields shall yield no meat; the flock shall be cut off from the fold, and there shall be no herd in the stalls:
18 Yet I will rejoice in the Lord, I will joy in the God of my salvation.
19 The Lord God is my strength, and he will make my feet like hinds' feet, and he will make me to walk upon mine high places. To the chief singer on my stringed instruments.

And again it's mentioned that God stopped the sun and moon but no mention of the earth stopping at all. Because the earth is stationary, fixed, immovable and ESTABLISHED, according to God Himself. It may also be flat, surrounded by an ice wall all the way around us with thousands upon thousands of miles of unreachable frozen land. They discovered something about the earth around 1959 and had clues much earlier that something was afoot down there.

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patrick jane

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View of Earth from Satellite orbiting the Earth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcrjoA3OGSA
I have a conspiracy thread for Fake videos of earth from "outer space" or Dave's flat earth thread. There's also one by User Name, all of those are for "scientific" and Fake Globe images. I actually enjoy those Fake videos of a globe, it bolsters my evidence. This thread is most always scriptural as the OP indicates. Thank you. :e4e:

Star Trek was better than that. Wow are you globers are suckers.
 

Derf

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Great points but I disagree about the words that God chooses. I believe that everything we need to know is preserved in His words and that God speaks plainly and clearly, not in parables like Jesus or "colorful" language to "spruce" up the "story" - below, Peter's words are speaking of the knowledge of Christ but it also pertains to us today.

Job 26:1-3 KJV -
But Job answered and said,
2 How hast thou helped him that is without power? how savest thou the arm that hath no strength?
3How hast thou counselled him that hath no wisdom? and how hast thou plentifully declared the thing as it is?

2 Peter 1:1-8 KJV -
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

But God doesn't give us all knowledge in the bible. He doesn't explain how the blood circulatory system works, and He doesn't tell us what stars are made of. He doesn't explain all that He did when creating the universe or the heavens and the earth. There is plenty that He doesn't tell us. That's why there is still some mystery about some things. His thoughts, for instance, are not our thoughts. We don't always understand why He does things. But that doesn't mean we can't seek out such knowledge, as long as it starts from the fear of the the Lord. Prov 1:7

But the things that He has made declare His glory--ever more so when we see how they function.
 
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patrick jane

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But God doesn't give us all knowledge in the bible. He doesn't explain how the blood circulatory system works, and He doesn't tell us what stars are made of. He doesn't explain all that He did when creating the universe or the heavens and the earth. There is plenty that He doesn't tell us. That's why there is still some mystery about some things. His thoughts, for instance, are not our thoughts. We don't always understand why He does things. But that doesn't mean we can't seek out such knowledge, as long as it starts from the fear of the the Lord. Prov 1:7

But the things that He has made declare His glory--ever more so when we see how they function.
No? We found out about the circulatory system and much more though didn't we? Just like we will all find out about being in an enclosed flat earth and firmament. The great deception is taking place today and has been for thousands of years. All we need is written. I understand what God is telling us in my opinion. Certainly not everything of course. I'm not wise nor have I attained any "secret knowledge" just a man with legitimate questions and doubts about a globe. Why did the earth and moon stop but not the flying spinning globe? Were those simply "colorful stories" because we are so simple minded we can't understand plain words and declarations from God? So I'm a fool now according to scripture that you interpret? Proverbs 1:7 KJV - ? Did you Goog that up real quick?
 

Derf

Well-known member
No? We found out about the circulatory system and much more though didn't we? Just like we will all find out about being in an enclosed flat earth and firmament. The great deception is taking place today and has been for thousands of years. All we need is written. I understand what God is telling us in my opinion. Certainly not everything of course. I'm not wise nor have I attained any "secret knowledge" just a man with legitimate questions and doubts about a globe. Why did the earth and moon stop but not the flying spinning globe? Were those simply "colorful stories" because we are so simple minded we can't understand plain words and declarations from God? So I'm a fool now according to scripture that you interpret? Proverbs 1:7 KJV - ? Did you Goog that up real quick?

Yes, we did find out about the circulatory system. And yes, we did find out about the earth and its shape. I think it's foolish to ignore evidence or claim something is fake just because it doesn't fit our preconceptions of how God did it. Some people claimed that dinosaur bones were faked by the devil (or by God) to test us.

Such is an example of unwillingness to address the evidence. I would say such is foolish. If that's you, then you are a fool.

Personally, I'm not willing to take on such an aspersion, but would rather seek out the truth of a matter. The bible gives a much better and clearer story about fossils of dinosaurs, but it doesn't tell us everything. There are some very smart men trying to figure it out. They might disregard the interpretations of secular scientists, but they don't ignore the evidence.
 

patrick jane

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Yes, we did find out about the circulatory system. And yes, we did find out about the earth and its shape. I think it's foolish to ignore evidence or claim something is fake just because it doesn't fit our preconceptions of how God did it. Some people claimed that dinosaur bones were faked by the devil (or by God) to test us.

Such is an example of unwillingness to address the evidence. I would say such is foolish. If that's you, then you are a fool.

Personally, I'm not willing to take on such an aspersion, but would rather seek out the truth of a matter. The bible gives a much better and clearer story about fossils of dinosaurs, but it doesn't tell us everything. There are some very smart men trying to figure it out. They might disregard the interpretations of secular scientists, but they don't ignore the evidence.
I'm not ignoring the evidence for us being in an enclosed flat earth and firmament. I'll repeat, I knew 100% that I was on a ball for nearly 50 years. I know it's "crazy and foolish" to 99.9% of the population but I'm exploring the POSSIBILITY for a moment in my life. It takes bigger leaps of faith to believe in a 4.5 BILLION year old earth, evolution, "outer space" EXPANDING into oblivion (20 billion years from now I presume) and "visiting and living on other planets" IMO. The aforementioned are much much more damaging to folks again, IMO. I've been stating my case clearly in previous posts. Belief in a possible flat earth is not a doctrine regardless of the overwhelming Biblical support. Does your Bible talk about us travelling through the firmament or reaching the other "planets and stars?
 

Right Divider

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I'm not ignoring the evidence for us being in an enclosed flat earth and firmament. I'll repeat, I knew 100% that I was on a ball for nearly 50 years. I know it's "crazy and foolish" to 99.9% of the population but I'm exploring the POSSIBILITY for a moment in my life. It takes bigger leaps of faith to believe in a 4.5 BILLION year old earth, evolution, "outer space" EXPANDING into oblivion (20 billion years from now I presume) and "visiting and living on other planets" IMO. The aforementioned are much much more damaging to folks again, IMO. I've been stating my case clearly in previous posts. Belief in a possible flat earth is not a doctrine regardless of the overwhelming Biblical support. Does your Bible talk about us travelling through the firmament or reaching the other "planets and stars?
Your confusion just continues to amaze.

Whether the earth is a sphere or flat has NOTHING to do with:
  • Billions of years
  • Evolution
  • "outer space" EXPANDING into oblivion
  • Visiting and living on other planets
  • NASA
  • Fake pictures
  • Santa
  • The tooth fairy
The Bible makes no definitive declarations about the topic of the actual shape of the earth, regardless of your numerous attempts to force that upon it.
 

Derf

Well-known member
I'm not ignoring the evidence for us being in an enclosed flat earth and firmament. I'll repeat, I knew 100% that I was on a ball for nearly 50 years. I know it's "crazy and foolish" to 99.9% of the population but I'm exploring the POSSIBILITY for a moment in my life. It takes bigger leaps of faith to believe in a 4.5 BILLION year old earth, evolution, "outer space" EXPANDING into oblivion (20 billion years from now I presume) and "visiting and living on other planets" IMO. The aforementioned are much much more damaging to folks again, IMO.
Maybe so, but those are interpretations of evidence, rather than evidence itself, except for visiting other planets. If someone says they have blasted off of earth in a rocket and visited the moon, for example, there might be cause for disbelief. But what if that person is highly ethical, and thinks it immoral to lie?

here are stories of astronauts that believe in Jesus Christ:
https://www.christianitytoday.com/behemoth/2016/issue-52-july-7-2016/bless-thou-astronauts.html
http://blog.godreports.com/2011/03/encounter-with-jesus-on-the-moon-left-astronaut-changed/
https://blog.chron.com/believeitorn...hristian-astronauts-reflect-on-their-creator/
http://www.christianconcern.com/our...record-breaking-astronaut-shares-faith-in-god
http://www.actsweb.org/articles/article.php?i=17&d=1&c=1&p=1

And what if there are are a dozen of such people? How about 2 dozen? Only about 500 people have been in space. Can we believe 500 people? 1 Cor 15:6

I've been stating my case clearly in previous posts. Belief in a possible flat earth is not a doctrine regardless of the overwhelming Biblical support. Does your Bible talk about us travelling through the firmament or reaching the other "planets and stars?
No, but it doesn't say such things are impossible. Why do you think such is necessary?

And the "overwhelming Biblical support" for flat earth is nothing of the kind.
 

patrick jane

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Maybe so, but those are interpretations of evidence, rather than evidence itself, except for visiting other planets. If someone says they have blasted off of earth in a rocket and visited the moon, for example, there might be cause for disbelief. But what if that person is highly ethical, and thinks it immoral to lie?

here are stories of astronauts that believe in Jesus Christ:
https://www.christianitytoday.com/behemoth/2016/issue-52-july-7-2016/bless-thou-astronauts.html
http://blog.godreports.com/2011/03/encounter-with-jesus-on-the-moon-left-astronaut-changed/
https://blog.chron.com/believeitorn...hristian-astronauts-reflect-on-their-creator/
http://www.christianconcern.com/our...record-breaking-astronaut-shares-faith-in-god
http://www.actsweb.org/articles/article.php?i=17&d=1&c=1&p=1

And what if there are are a dozen of such people? How about 2 dozen? Only about 500 people have been in space. Can we believe 500 people? 1 Cor 15:6


No, but it doesn't say such things are impossible. Why do you think such is necessary?

And the "overwhelming Biblical support" for flat earth is nothing of the kind.
It really doesn't matter one way or the other but one day we'll all know. I'm the underdog.
 

patrick jane

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[h=1]Biblical Cosmology: Theologians Gone Wild Part 2 - The Firmament[/h]

Rob Skiba

Flat Earthers are not alone in their assessments.
 

patrick jane

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Amos 9:6 NASB - The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens and has founded His vaulted dome over the earth,
He who calls for the waters of the sea
And pours them out on the face of the earth,
The Lord is His name.
 

patrick jane

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When vain and prevailing voices sound in our ears...

Attention : This channel begins with 4 minutes of new age thinking and love of self, the pride of life, IT'S NOT THE MAIN SPEAKER IN THE FIRST 4 MINUTES BUT A NEW AGE "GURU" SPEAKS FIRST. This is the youtube channel I like the most right now. He quote scripture and I always learn new things. It's always uplifting and interesting to me.


 
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patrick jane

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Psalm 74:12-18 KJV -
For God is my King of old, working salvation in the midst of the earth.
13 Thou didst divide the sea by thy strength: thou brakest the heads of the dragons in the waters.
14 Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.
15 Thou didst cleave the fountain and the flood: thou driedst up mighty rivers.
16 The day is thine, the night also is thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun.
17 Thou hast set all the borders of the earth: thou hast made summer and winter.
18 Remember this, that the enemy hath reproached, O Lord, and that the foolish people have blasphemed thy name.

Job 38 - KJV -

Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
9When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
10And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
12Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.
16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
17 Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?
18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.
19 Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof,
20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?
21 Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?
22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?
24 By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?
25 Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder;
26 To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man;
27 To satisfy the desolate and waste ground; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth?
28 Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of dew?
29 Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?
30 The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.
31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?
33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?
34 Canst thou lift up thy voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?
35 Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go and say unto thee, Here we are?
36 Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?
37 Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven,
38 When the dust groweth into hardness, and the clods cleave fast together?

Job 38:14 commentary : Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges

14. Another charming figure. Under the light of morn the earth, which was formless in the darkness, takes shape like the clay under the seal.

It is changed as clay under the seal,

And they stand forth as a garment.

In the first clause the words are lit. as seal-clay. All things with clear-cut impression and vivid colouring stand forth under the light, and together form a various, many-coloured garment, in which the earth is robed.Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(37) Who can stay the bottles of heaven?—This is understood in two opposite senses—of pouring out the bottles or of laying them up in store. It is not easy to decide which is most in accordance with the context, for the context also is somewhat uncertain, according as we interpret the solid mass of thick mud or of hard, dry soil. The survey of physical phenomena ends with this verse.
39 Wilt thou hunt the prey for the lion? or fill the appetite of the young lions,
40 When they couch in their dens, and abide in the covert to lie in wait?
41 Who provideth for the raven his food? when his young ones cry unto God, they wander for lack of meat.
Job 38:6

Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened?
&c.] Or the pillars of it, as Ben Gersom interprets it; see ( Psalms 75:3 ) ; and which Aben Ezra understands of the mountains: but be they what they may, on what can they be fastened or sunk into, when the earth hangs on nothing, and there is nothing visible to support it, nothing but the mighty hand of God?

or who laid the corner stone thereof?
which unites, cements, and keeps the fabric together, and is the ornament and beauty of it; but who can tell what that is? Aben Ezra interprets it of the point or centre of the earth.


International Standard Bible Encyclopedia
SWADDLE; SWADDLING-BAND
swod'-'-l, swod'-ling-band (verb chathal, "enwrap," "swaddle" (Ezekiel 16:4), noun chathullah, "swaddling-band" (Job 38:9); verb sparganoo, "to wrap in swaddling clothes" (Luke 2:7, 12), noun spargana (pl.), "swaddling clothes" (The Wisdom of Solomon 7:4). the King James Version also has "swaddle" (Lamentations 2:22) for Taphach, literally, "to extend." But the word means "to carry on the outstretched palms of the hands" (compare Tippuchim, "dandled in the hands," Lamentations 2:20), whence RV's "to dandle"): "To swaddle" and "to swathe" are really the same word, both forms going back to an AS form swethel, "a bandage," but "swaddle" has become the technical term for the wrapping of an infant in the Orient or elsewhere. The oriental swaddling-clothes consist of a square of cloth and two or more bandages. The child is laid on the cloth diagonally and the corners are folded over the feet and body and under the head, the bandages then being tied so as to hold the cloth in position. This device forms the clothing of the child until it is about a year old, and its omission (Ezekiel 16:4) would be a token that the child had been abandoned. The mention of darkness as a "swaddling-band" at the birth of the sea (Job 38:9) is only a poetic way of saying that the sea, at its creation, was covered with clouds and darkness, and to find any idea of restraint involved is fanciful.
 
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