ECT Apostle, apostle, who's got the apostle!

[glorydaz]

People turned back to sin right there under Paul's nose, they loved the world better. The flesh is frail, the mind of the flesh is wayward.

But God's word remains the same to all generations, the failure is not with God

YOU SAY THE FAILURE IS GOD, it's not His will or something, He has to be in the right mood, He loves some cancer sufferers more than others...I don't know what you are saying...but I know you are not inspiring faith but unbelief in the matter of healing.

No one says the failure is God. Only man would say to not be healed is a failure. We are all physically dying. There is no getting around that. When it's my time to go, I don't want to be healed. To die is gain and I believe that. It's here on this earth that we have tribulation...it's here on earth that we suffer. But even suffering is not a bad thing...it's part of our being conformed into the image of the Son. It's the "'fellowship of His suffering" that makes us stronger and more thankful to God for being with us through it all.

Claiming someone's faith is at fault for a lack of healing by God is a weakness of man not a failure of God.

 

[Angel4Truth]

People turned back to sin right there under Paul's nose, they loved the world better. The flesh is frail, the mind of the flesh is wayward.

But God's word remains the same to all generations, the failure is not with God

YOU SAY THE FAILURE IS GOD, it's not His will or something, He has to be in the right mood, He loves some cancer sufferers more than others...I don't know what you are saying...but I know you are not inspiring faith but unbelief in the matter of healing.

Was it Gods will that Paul and Timothy be healed?

Did Paul and Timothy lack faith?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Mar 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Mar 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

You've been asked before to post video proof that those signs follow you. You won't cuz they don't. Because you lie.

These things follow them who believe.

You do not.

You prefer to lie about other people who believe what the Bible says.

LA

 

[Aimiel]

These things follow them who believe.

You do not.

You prefer to lie about other people who believe what the Bible says.

LA

Sorry, but Scripture doesn't say, "These videos will follow them that believe." It says, "signs," for a reason. We cannot 'prove' God and God doesn't do parlour tricks. He responds to faith but will not be proven in a laboratory. That would require no faith. God requires faith. Without faith it is impossible to please Him. You'll never be pleasing to Him until you get off that boat of religion that you're riding in and walk out onto the water of faith in God.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Was it Gods will that Paul and Timothy be healed?

Did Paul and Timothy lack faith?

show where Paul was sick and don't come the old thorn in the flesh a messenger of satan malarkey, that won't wash.

God is behind the science of medication yes. Wine being medicinal in Tims case.

But you miss the point

It never was God's will for man to be sick, it was never God's will for man to sin.

See Demas turned away from the Lord being in love with the present world...that is not God's will, others sinned over who Paul grieved....it is not God's will

God's will is to restore those fallen into sin, it is His will to heal any who are sick....if they are not restored or healed there is no failure on the part of God.

James tells us what to do "is any sick? let him call the elders to anoint him and the Lord will raise him up and if he has sinned he will be forgiven.

I draw your attention to that scripture because there is not a hint of doubt about it.

No ifs, no buts.

That is the way the early church thought as oppose to the modern church.

But I am saying this to you

While we live in this body we are going to be prone to all kinds of temptations, trials and weaknesses.

The reason I link it to sin is because we KNOW it is never God's will for us to sin....but we do. I say just as surely that is never God's will for any to fall sick, but we do.

To find God's will we have to go to Jesus..He is the expression of God's will...He healed ALL who came to Him.

 

[Angel4Truth]

show where Paul was sick and don't come the old thorn in the flesh a messenger of satan malarkey, that won't wash.

Its scripture, he wasnt healed and he said why.

 

[Totton Linnet]

No one says the failure is God. Only man would say to not be healed is a failure. We are all physically dying. There is no getting around that. When it's my time to go, I don't want to be healed. To die is gain and I believe that. It's here on this earth that we have tribulation...it's here on earth that we suffer. But even suffering is not a bad thing...it's part of our being conformed into the image of the Son. It's the "'fellowship of His suffering" that makes us stronger and more thankful to God for being with us through it all.

Claiming someone's faith is at fault for a lack of healing by God is a weakness of man not a failure of God.

I say the church is at fault...YOU said it.

You said if there were any with the gift of healing the people would be breaking down the doors....you never said a truer word.

The western church is too backslidden for this, but it is happening on other continents, there have been times when it happened in the western church.

One day Jesus brought man with a withered hand and stood him before the congregation and said "is it right to do good on the Sabbath?"

We are LIVING in the Sabbath.

They would not answer Him

And the bible said the Lord looked around at them angry....GRIEVED at their hardness of heart.

That's the root of the problem.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Its scripture, he wasnt healed and he said why.

Malarky, show the scripture which says he was sick

I will show you where he explained in full detail what the thorn of the flesh was....

 

[Angel4Truth]

2 Corinthians 12:7 Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me-- to keep me from exalting myself! 8 Concerning this I implored the Lord three times that it might leave me 9 And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.

 

[Totton Linnet]

2 Corinthians 12:7 Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me-- to keep me from exalting myself! 8 Concerning this I implored the Lord three times that it might leave me 9 And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.

oh you missed out the bit about reproaches, necessities, persecutions, distresses.

The beatings, the nakedness, the shipwrecks...and you telling me he was sick?....away with you now you are having me on.

 

[Angel4Truth]

oh you missed out the bit about reproaches, necessities, persecutions, distresses.

The beatings, the nakedness, the shipwrecks...and you telling me he was sick?....away with you now you are having me on.

yes, he had problems with his eyes, he spoke about it more than once.

You could also tell why timothy was told to take wine for his frequent infirmaties of his stomach, if someone could just lay their hands on him.

 

[Totton Linnet]

oh you do come out with them...he had just been stoned and left for dead...


pulling my leg you are

 

[Danoh]

Its important to be willing to study a thing out in Scripture whenever we are presented with a view differing from our own, Rom. 12:16.

It is what Scripture is partly for, 2 Tim. 3:16-17.

Towards that, there is ever a need with regard to all issues, for the practice of "rightly dividing the word of truth," 2 Tim. 2:15, as to the who, what, when, where, why, and how of a thing.

But mostly, that will not be what one finds on forums. Rather and irate "well that's not what I think," and so on will tend the be the basis of many.

 

[Livelystone]

Its important to be willing to study a thing out in Scripture whenever we are presented with a view differing from our own, Rom. 12:16.

It is what Scripture is partly for, 2 Tim. 3:16-17.

Towards that, there is ever a need with regard to all issues, for the practice of "rightly dividing the word of truth," 2 Tim. 2:15, as to the who, what, when, where, why, and how of a thing.

But mostly, that will not be what one finds on forums. Rather and irate "well that's not what I think," and so on will tend the be the basis of many.

This is true

However, rightly dividing the word is done so by law and in particular the laws first given to Moses to be used for determining the truth. Isaiah has them in a more condensed form in chapter 28 that is the Bible chapter of who shall gain knowledge and how they will do it through "line upon line and precept upon precept, here a little and there a little".

All of the remarks made by the Apostles and Jesus for establishing the truth are OT laws put into NT words. For example the "no prophecy can be of any private interpretation" is simply the law that states one witness cannot determine the right or wrong of a particular issue.

The only witnesses that matter are persons speaking in the Bible as God gave utterance to His Holy Prophets to deliver to His people then and now

This a about a 15 minute read on "rightly dividing the word" in accordance to the Word of God as He instructs us to do so. It is well worth the time it takes to do so.

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76526

 

[musterion]

Apostleship usually means a witness of Jesus Christ for the purpose of the crafting of the NT Bible. This includes Jesus' direct disciples (the 12 minus Judas Iscariot), His other direct followers, prophets called to the same witnessing purpose such as Paul.

Okay...

However we shouldn't be able to find a verse to say that God won't send apostles, either.

So what you first said above is the "old" definition, meaning "apostle" can now mean anyone people today want to claim is an apostle, if they're inclined to do so.

In the end, it's God's business. However it makes more sense for the prophets to be sent instead of the apostles. Prophets are mentioned in the Book of Revelation but not apostles. However, in the end it's God's business.

It is God's business, but God said what He has said. His Word says that He GAVE - a one-time act - the gifts of apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, etc. DanP posted that fact days ago and no one has answered it.

The job of all who believe He's still giving the gifts of the apostolic era is to demonstrate (a) that He is STILL giving these gifts today, (b) WHY He needs to still give them, and (c) how we can KNOW He's still doing so, in order to test true giftings from carnal/satanic counterfeits. I've yet to see one person on this thread even try to do that.

 

[musterion]

YOU SAY THE FAILURE IS GOD

I love you, Tot, but I cannot tolerate being slandered as speaking against God when I have not. I'm just not that strong. Best if we ignore each other awhile.

 

[musterion]

Sorry, but Scripture doesn't say, "These videos will follow them that believe." It says, "signs," for a reason. We cannot 'prove' God and God doesn't do parlour tricks.

You're deliberately missing the point.

The divine record tells us that most of the miracles Christ and His apostles performed, all the way up through Paul, were not done "in a corner" but in front of unbelievers openly and publicly. On streets, in marketplaces, in jails, in homes, in the temple complex, everywhere. Word of these miracles spread far and wide. Whether people were led to believe because of what they saw is beside the point here...the point is, MULTITUDES of unbelievers saw them. They were allowed to see by God.

This raises what ought to be an obvious question for today, but conveniently isn't:

Why isn't God allowing unbelievers today to see the miracles people like you claim happen just as often today - if not more often? Why must one go to a pentecostal/charismatic church or rally in order to see these miracles, if they see them then at all?

In short, why is God limiting that which He did not limit before?

 

[Livelystone]

Okay...

So what you first said above is the "old" definition, meaning "apostle" can now mean anyone people today want to claim is an apostle, if they're inclined to do so.

It is God's business, but God said what He has said. His Word says that He GAVE - a one-time act - the gifts of apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, etc. DanP posted that fact days ago and no one has answered it.

The job of all who believe He's still giving the gifts of the apostolic era is to demonstrate (a) that He is STILL giving these gifts today, (b) WHY He needs to still give them, and (c) how we can KNOW He's still doing so, in order to test true giftings from carnal/satanic counterfeits. I've yet to see one person on this thread even try to do that.

It is God's business, but God said what He has said. His Word says that He GAVE - a one-time act - the gifts of apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, etc. DanP posted that fact days ago and no one has answered it.

The job of all who believe He's still giving the gifts of the apostolic era is to demonstrate (a) that He is STILL giving these gifts today, (b) WHY He needs to still give them, and (c) how we can KNOW He's still doing so, in order to test true giftings from carnal/satanic counterfeits. I've yet to see one person on this thread even try to do that.

This post is full of false assumptions contrary to the word of God

For the record I have said on multiple occasions (including earlier in this thread to member "heir") to any who deny God doing miracles today is be willing to put your money where your mouth is and we will work out the details for a acceptable charity serving the needs of the have nots to be the beneficiary of such a dispute......... Fair enough?

Once again........ No one is given a gift to heal others, you are misreading the scriptures through being influenced by your own pet doctrines.

God is the one who does the miracles, always has been and always will be. Persons who received "gifts of healing' are persons who, needed the healing, and not them being given the power to heal others

Consider the words of Paul and Jesus before you reply

Galatians 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works

 

[Totton Linnet]

I love you, Tot, but I cannot tolerate being slandered as speaking against God when I have not. I'm just not that strong. Best if we ignore each other awhile.

luv you too.. but it is not me you are ignoring...you have an inner witness and I know it, you are arguing agin yourself.