ACTS 2 PENTECOST

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Right Divider,

Colossians 2 is NOT talking about WATER baptism. You just cannot read baptism without reading WATER baptism.

Mat 20:22-23 KJV But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. (23) And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.​

This quotation shows that Jesus associates his coming trials and death and resurrection with the word and figure of baptism. We become associated with that death and resurrection by faith and water baptism. Yes, it is water baptism. Note the terms in Colossians 2:12 "buried with him in baptism" and "risen with him".

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again turbosixx,

In your understanding, what were these Jews who believed added to?

To the 120 who were in the upper room Acts 1:15 and to those who also already believed in the resurrection of Christ and accepted him as their Saviour.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Right Divider]

Greetings again Right Divider,This quotation shows that Jesus associates his coming trials and death and resurrection with the word and figure of baptism.

Every use of baptism is speaking of DEATH. There is no water anywhere to be found.

We become associated with that death and resurrection by faith and water baptism. Yes, it is water baptism. Note the terms in Colossians 2:12 "buried with him in baptism" and "risen with him".

No, many uses of the word baptism are simply referring to an identification.

You are like so many that try to bring the totally Jewish (Israelite) ritual of water cleansing into the body of Christ (where it does NOT belong).

 

[turbosixx]

Greetings again turbosixx,To the 120 who were in the upper room Acts 1:15 and to those who also already believed in the resurrection of Christ and accepted him as their Saviour.

Kind regards
Trevor

So this was something new. Jesus being Lord and Christ had never been preached before Acts 2. When these people believed Peter and responded to the message, they were added to something new.
Acts 2:41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

I believe that something new is the church which is also the kingdom. Jesus uses the terms interchangeably here:
Matt. 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

We see Peter using those keys and letting 3,000 souls in on Pentecost. Paul says we have been transferred to His kingdom.
Col. 1:13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Paul says we are in His kingdom and in Him we have forgiveness of sins, that is his church.

 

[Right Divider]

So this was something new. Jesus being Lord and Christ had never been preached before Acts 2.

Mat 12:8 KJV For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.​

​

Mat 23:8 KJV But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.​

Both before Acts 2.

When these people believed Peter and responded to the message, they were added to something new.

Acts 2:41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

No, they were being added to something old. The believing remnant of Israel.

I believe that something new is the church which is also the kingdom. Jesus uses the terms interchangeably here:
Matt. 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Those are NOT used INTERCHANGEABLY.... you twist the scripture to support your MYTH.

We see Peter using those keys and letting 3,000 souls in on Pentecost. Paul says we have been transferred to His kingdom.
Col. 1:13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Paul says we are in His kingdom and in Him we have forgiveness of sins, that is his church.

Two different types of kingdoms.

Your knowledge of scripture is atrocious.

 

[turbosixx]

Mat 12:8 KJV For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.​

​

Mat 23:8 KJV But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.​

Both before Acts 2.

It's my understanding He was the anointed before Acts 2 but it was looking forward.
Matt. 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church[, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
He did not build His church before His death.

No, they were being added to something old. The believing remnant of Israel.

How were they added? By something old or something new?

Two different types of kingdoms.

Col. 1:13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Could you please explain?

 

[Right Divider]

So this was something new. Jesus being Lord and Christ had never been preached before Acts 2. .

It's my understanding He was the anointed before Acts 2 but it was looking forward.
Matt. 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church[, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
He did not build His church before His death.

Please take my responses in the order in which I gave them.

I demonstrated that Jesus preached that He was Lord and Christ well before Acts 2.

You just keep making one false claim after another and never listen to ANY response from someone correcting your incorrect statements.

How were they added? By something old or something new?

The were NOT added to the church which is His body, as that body did not exist at that time.

They were added to the believing remnant of Israel that was being gathered at that time.

Col. 1:13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Could you please explain?

Paul is not talking about the earthly kingdom there. Jesus was talking about the earthly kingdom when He was on earth preaching the gospel of the kingdom. After His FORTY day kingdom course, the apostles understand perfectly what He was talking about.

Acts 1:6 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:6) When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? ​

That was a perfectly correct question which is clearly evidenced since the Lord did NOT correct they understanding, but simply tells them that they were not to know the "times or the seasons".

You can also go back to earlier times in the Lord's earthly ministry to Israel to see other examples:

Matt 6:10 (AKJV/PCE)​

(6:10) Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.
​

That kingdom is coming to the earth.

 

[turbosixx]

Please take my responses in the order in which I gave them.

I demonstrated that Jesus preached that He was Lord and Christ well before Acts 2.

You just keep making one false claim after another and never listen to ANY response from someone correcting your incorrect statements.

I do listen to responses and consider them but when they don't fit my understanding I need to ask more questions. Such as, If He was the same Lord and Christ before His DBR, why was no one baptized in His name?
I agree Jesus was called Lord and the Christ before His DBR but I believe it was looking forward to completion of His sacrifice. I understand that it was only after He was given all authority.
Matt. 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

The were NOT added to the church which is His body, as that body did not exist at that time.

They were added to the believing remnant of Israel that was being gathered at that time.

I'm curious what you're basing this on. Do you have any proof? Those on Pentecost heard the same thing Paul preached to convert Christians and they were baptized just as Paul baptized believers.

Paul is not talking about the earthly kingdom there.

I agree. When do you believe this one was established?

Jesus was talking about the earthly kingdom when He was on earth preaching the gospel of the kingdom.

Could you point out a couple of them for me please that describe this earthly kingdom?

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again turbosixx,

So this was something new. Jesus being Lord and Christ had never been preached before Acts 2. When these people believed Peter and responded to the message, they were added to something new.
Acts 2:41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

I believe that something new is the church which is also the kingdom. Jesus uses the terms interchangeably here:
Matt. 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

We see Peter using those keys and letting 3,000 souls in on Pentecost. Paul says we have been transferred to His kingdom.
Col. 1:13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Paul says we are in His kingdom and in Him we have forgiveness of sins, that is his church.

Yes, the establishment of the Ekklesia was something new, and this pattern was repeated in the various cities of the Roman world, where there were pockets of believers who were called out of Israel and the nations by the Gospel of the future Kingdom and the Name to form the Bride of Christ. I agree that the believers are in a sense in the Kingdom of God now, but I also believe that when Jesus returns he will overthrow the present kingdoms of men and establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth, sitting upon the Throne of David, and ruling from Jerusalem for 1000 years Isaiah 2:1-4, Daniel 2:35,44, Zechariah 14, Matthew 19:28, Acts 3:19-21 and 2 Timothy 4:1,6-8 are a few examples of this teaching..

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[turbosixx]

Greetings again turbosixx, Yes, the establishment of the Ekklesia was something new, and this pattern was repeated in the various cities of the Roman world, where there were pockets of believers who were called out of Israel and the nations by the Gospel of the future Kingdom and the Name to form the Bride of Christ. I agree that the believers are in a sense in the Kingdom of God now, but I also believe that when Jesus returns he will overthrow the present kingdoms of men and establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth, sitting upon the Throne of David, and ruling from Jerusalem for 1000 years Isaiah 2:1-4, Daniel 2:35,44, Zechariah 14, Matthew 19:28, Acts 3:19-21 and 2 Timothy 4:1,6-8 are a few examples of this teaching..

Kind regards
Trevor

It's my understanding that the language is figurative describing a spiritual kingdom. Jesus Himself said His kingdom was not of this world.

What makes someone a Jew?

 

[Right Divider]

I do listen to responses and consider them but when they don't fit my understanding I need to ask more questions. Such as, If He was the same Lord and Christ before His DBR, why was no one baptized in His name?

YOU are the one that needs to make some strange explanation for that. I just believe the scripture when the Lord Jesus calls Himself BOTH Lord and Christ well before that day of Pentecost.

I agree Jesus was called Lord and the Christ before His DBR but I believe it was looking forward to completion of His sacrifice. I understand that it was only after He was given all authority.
Matt. 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Once AGAIN, you must make ASSUMPTIONS to attempt to confirm your "story".

That verse does NOT say that Jesus was JUST given that authority at that time. He had that authority during His entire time on earth.

Your "understanding" of scripture is clearly based on your preconceived ideas.

I'm curious what you're basing this on. Do you have any proof? Those on Pentecost heard the same thing Paul preached to convert Christians and they were baptized just as Paul baptized believers.

Nope... just more of your forcing scripture to fit your "story".

Peter was preaching to JEWS and PROSELYTES, but Paul says that there is NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK in the body of Christ.

I agree. When do you believe this one was established?

THAT kingdom is eternal... no beginning nor end.

Could you point out a couple of them for me please that describe this earthly kingdom?

Genesis through Malachi. Try Daniel and Isaiah.

Please read the law and the prophets. It's ALL in there.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again turbosixx

It's my understanding that the language is figurative describing a spiritual kingdom. Jesus Himself said His kingdom was not of this world.

I understand “this world” is not talking about this planet earth, but this system of things. Jesus uses the same word “world” on the previous day in his prayer, and this is not talking about planet earth, but the Jewish system of things, their political and religious arrangements and beliefs and practices.
John 17:8-16 (KJV): 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. 9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. 13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

What makes someone a Jew?

Not sure what you are asking here, or why. The following may be relevant:
Romans 2:28-29 (KJV): 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 299 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
But there are nations today, and Israel is one of them, and prophecy speaks of the coming troubles centred in the Holy Land and Jerusalem. I imagine that you will eventually change your perspective as more and more of these prophecies are fulfilled. Some of these prophecies already fulfilled are the partial return of the Jews to the Holy Land in unbelief of Jesus as their Messiah, prior to their conversion when Jesus returns.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[turbosixx]

Not sure what you are asking here, or why. The following may be relevant:
Romans 2:28-29 (KJV): 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 299 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
But there are nations today, and Israel is one of them, and prophecy speaks of the coming troubles centred in the Holy Land and Jerusalem. I imagine that you will eventually change your perspective as more and more of these prophecies are fulfilled. Some of these prophecies already fulfilled are the partial return of the Jews to the Holy Land in unbelief of Jesus as their Messiah, prior to their conversion when Jesus returns.

Kind regards
Trevor

This is my point and my current understanding. The prophesied kingdom of the OT is for Israel. When we read the NT, we see who God considers to be true Israelites and heirs.
Rom. 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.

Christians are children of promise.
Gal. 4: 28 Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise.

To be a Jew/Israelite, you had to be a descendant of Abraham and circumcised. As children of promise, Paul tells us we meet those qualifications.
Gal. 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
Col. 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,

Paul says we are the circumcision and not those who are trusting in their fleshly birth.
Phil. 3:2 Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh. 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh—

It's my understanding the prophesies are speaking of a spiritual kingdom. Have you considered Ezekiel's temple? If you look at a scale version, it's impossible. The members of Christ's church are the temple and it's a great number.
1 Pt. 2:4 As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, 5 you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

 

[meshak]

What makes someone a Jew?

According to Jesus, all His faithful followers are spiritual Jews.

 

[turbosixx]

According to Jesus, all His faithful followers are spiritual Jews.

That is my understanding. What I'm trying to understand from others is, what makes someone a physical Jew/Israelite.

 

[JudgeRightly]

According to Jesus, all His faithful followers are spiritual Jews.

So what tribe are you descended from? Judah? Benjamin? Joseph? Which?

 

[turbosixx]

So what tribe are you descended from? Judah? Benjamin? Joseph? Which?

I would suggest Judah.
Gal. 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I would suggest Judah.
Gal. 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

So you have Judah's blood running through your veins? Can you prove that?

 

[turbosixx]

So you have Judah's blood running through your veins? Can you prove that?

Abrahams offspring will be the children of promise not the children of the flesh.
Rom. 9:7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.

29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

2 Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh. 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh—

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again turbosixx

It's my understanding the prophesies are speaking of a spiritual kingdom. Have you considered Ezekiel's temple? If you look at a scale version, it's impossible. The members of Christ's church are the temple and it's a great number.

I appreciate your perspective, but cannot agree. Yes the faithful are the ones through whom the promises of inheritance will be fulfilled, but the OT prophets are full of detail about future events, and some of these are in the process of being fulfilled. The present difficulties with the Palestinian problem and the status of Jerusalem and the previous 1967 borders for the West Bank and the Golan Heights seem to be the basis of impending major problems. One chapter Ezekiel 38 has immediate relevance, as it speaks of a northern invasion at a time after the return of the Jews from the nations to occupy a previous desolate land. I have a thorough exposition of Ezekiel’s Temple where the author an architect gives a thorough depiction and explanation of the overall picture and detail. Yes, it will be built and will be the House of Prayer for all nations. If we read from Ezekiel 38 to 39, then Ezekiel 40-48 is the natural flow, Israel in ignorance of Jesus as their Messiah, their conversion and then the establishment of the Temple, not only for Israel but also for the nations.

Kind regards
Trevor