ACTS 2 PENTECOST

steko

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Dan. 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him
It's my understanding that the saints of the most High are Christians. The kingdom will last forever not just a 1,000 years.[/hosQUOTE]


In the context of the book of Daniel, 'the people of the saints of the most High' are Daniel's people... Israel. The Church, the Body of Christ, is not in view except in the minds of those who want to retroactively insert the BOC there unjustifiably.

It is my current understanding that the church is on earth and in heaven.

Yes, but that is not Israel.

The plan for the church was before the foundation of the world.

Yes indeed, but wasn't revealed thru the prophets of Israel, but was hidden in GOD, and revealed by Christ to and thru the Apostle Paul.


Eph. 1:10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.


That describes a dispensation that is a long way yet to come.

Outside of the church, death.

Yeah.... now.
 

steko

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What was Peter trying to convince them to do....become a Christian.

Peter wanted Israel to repent and believe that Jesus of Nazareth was their promised Messiah so that they could be saved and enter the prophesied Davidic Kingdom on earth.

How did Paul want to save his people?
Rom. 11:14 in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them.

In lieu of the fact that his Israelite brethren had rejected their promised Messiah and that OT prophecy was now put on hold, Paul desired them to now not only believe that Jesus was Messiah, but also that He had suffered on the cross for their sins and had risen the third day in order to be saved and be part of the BOC.

In Christ we are in His kingdom.
Col. 1:13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,


Christians are in Christ's overall Kingdom... for sure, but are not in the prophesied Davidic Kingdom promised to Israel.

In Christ Jews and everyone will have more blessings than an earthly kingdom could ever provide. In fact, an earthly kingdom will undo some of them. Outside of Christ, death.

It's according to your present freewill to despise and disbelieve GOD's promises for Israel's Davidic Kingdom, but GOD promised it and I believe Him.

One day, not only the unbelieving nations, but also the shameful unbelieving Christians will know that GOD sets apart Israel for Himself. How embarrassing!


Eze 37:28 And the heathen[gentiles] shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
 

meshak

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Those verses do not prove that all of Jesus' faithful followers are spiritual Jews.

Try again.

It seems you don't have critical reading skill.

those Pharisee did not believe Jesus. So He called them they are not Abraham's descendants but of the devil.
 

Idolater

Well-known member
It seems you don't have critical reading skill.

those Pharisee did not believe Jesus. So He called them they are not Abraham's descendants but of the devil.
What do we have to do Meshak, to unite the whole Church together? Do you really think that everybody has to believe what you believe, to be united together with them? I think we just have to be Catholic, and Catholics on the way to full communion. We can all be together.
 

meshak

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What do we have to do Meshak, to unite the whole Church together? Do you really think that everybody has to believe what you believe, to be united together with them? I think we just have to be Catholic, and Catholics on the way to full communion. We can all be together.

It is too corrupt. All we can do is to come out of corrupt institution. All His true servants are unite in sprit.
 

turbosixx

New member
Yes, but that is not Israel.

I believe this is one of the main points we disagree on. Maybe you can help me to see your point of view on how the church is NOT Israel in Christ. I believe we are based on these passages.

Rom. 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
This passage tells us that it's not the physical descendants who are offspring but the spiritual descendants. Christians are the children of promise.

What makes someone a "fleshly" Jew/Israelite? I suggest being a descendant of Abraham and circumcision. Scripture says that Christians meet those two requirements.
Gal. 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
Col. 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,

Paul says we(Christians) are the circumcision not those of the flesh.
Phil. 3:2 Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh. 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh— 4 though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, blameless. 7 But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ .


Yes indeed, but wasn't revealed thru the prophets of Israel, but was hidden in GOD, and revealed by Christ to and thru the Apostle Paul.

I would suggest to you it was revealed and the prophets did speak of the church. The NT writers quoted OT prophecies to support the grace they are experiencing. Here are just a few.

Amos
Acts 15:14 Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,
16 “‘After this I will return,
and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen;
I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it,
17 that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord,
and all the Gentiles who are called by my name,
says the Lord, who makes these things 18 known from of old.’


Rom. 9:24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? 25 As indeed he says in Hosea,
“Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’
and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’”
26 “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”


Psalm
Rom. 15:8 For I tell you that Christ became a servant to the circumcised to show God's truthfulness, in order to confirm the promises given to the patriarchs, 9 and in order that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy. As it is written,
“Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles,
and sing to your name.”


Isaiah
Lk. 2:28 he took him up in his arms and blessed God and said,
29 “Lord, now you are letting your servant depart in peace,
according to your word;
30 for my eyes have seen your salvation
31 that you have prepared in the presence of all peoples,
32 a light for revelation to the Gentiles,
and for glory to your people Israel
.”


Ezekiel
2 Cor. 6:15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said,
“I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.


I would suggest to you hidden does not necessarily mean not revealed but not understood. Consider this passage. This is the third time Jesus told the 12 plainly that he would die but they did not understand it, it was hidden.
Luke 18:33 And after flogging him, they will kill him, and on the third day he will rise.” 34 But they understood none of these things. This saying was hidden from them, and they did not grasp what was said.
 

meshak

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I'd like to hear your logic on how Christians, even Gentile, are Abrahams offspring?
And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

Yes, Jesus made it clear if you are a faithful you are descendant of Abraham and I showed it but the mads refuse to accept.

it is so strange.
 

Right Divider

Body part
I'd like to hear your logic on how Christians, even Gentile, are Abrahams offspring?
And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
Israel was Abraham's GRANDSON.

The promise was given to both Israel and those that bless Israel. See Genesis 12.

First, Abraham was promised that God would make of him A GREAT NATION. (Genesis 12:2).

Later, Abraham was promised that God would make him the father OF MANY NATIONS (Genesis 17:4-5).... not just Israel.

It was at this SECOND promise that God changed his name from Abram to Abraham.
 

turbosixx

New member
Israel was Abraham's GRANDSON.

The promise was given to both Israel and those that bless Israel. See Genesis 12.

First, Abraham was promised that God would make of him A GREAT NATION. (Genesis 12:2).

Later, Abraham was promised that God would make him the father OF MANY NATIONS (Genesis 17:4-5).... not just Israel.

It was at this SECOND promise that God changed his name from Abram to Abraham.

I'm sorry but I don't see how this changes the fact that Christians are Abrahams offspring, in fact it supports it. Since Christians are Abrahams offspring, that makes him the father of many nations.
 

Right Divider

Body part
I'm sorry but I don't see how this changes the fact that Christians are Abrahams offspring, in fact it supports it. Since Christians are Abrahams offspring, that makes him the father of many nations.
You have continuously conflated so many things that it's difficult to discuss anything Biblical with you.

All faithful believers are said to be Abraham's offspring. That does not magically mean that all of the promises that God made to Israel belong to you. But I understand that you're totally hooked on myths like "all believers are 'spiritual Israel'", so enjoy the fairy tale.
 

turbosixx

New member
This depends on what God says at the time. This is why Paul uses the term "from faith to faith".

For Israel to be faithful, they were to keep the law. The body of Christ is different, we are not under the law.

So are you're telling me today a Jew has a choice. They can follow the law or they can become a Christian?
 
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