501c3 at risk due to opposition to sodomite ceremonies

[Jose Fly]

Nothing other than to vote (unfortunately).

So that's one opinion from someone with no authority to actually do anything.

But those who do have legal authority have signaled that the Supreme Court Decision challenges religious freedom in our country.

All you have to do is read the dissenting opinions of Thomas, Allito and Roberts to see this.

Oh sure there are going to be conflicts between gay marriages and religion, some of which will have to be decided by the court system. But that's a far cry from actually taking legal action against churches.

 

[Dialogos]

So that's one opinion from someone with no authority to actually do anything.



Oh sure there are going to be conflicts between gay marriages and religion, some of which will have to be decided by the court system. But that's a far cry from actually taking legal action against churches.

??

No, it won't start with churches, it will start with religious colleges who refuse to acknowledge same sex marriages in their married student housing policies.

That was clear form the Solicitor General's testimony during the trial.

 

[Jose Fly]

No, it won't start with churches

It won't even get to churches.

it will start with religious colleges who refuse to acknowledge same sex marriages in their married student housing policies.

Yep, I can see the government questioning subsidizing schools that don't abide by the law.

 

[Dialogos]

It won't even get to churches.

First, its already in the churches. When you have fire chiefs being fired for what they say in church, and pastors in TX having their sermons subpoenaed.

 

[Jose Fly]

First, its already in the churches.

No it's not.

When you have fire chiefs being fired for what they say in church

Sorry, not going down that road again with you.

and pastors in TX having their sermons subpoenaed.

Which was very quickly withdrawn.

 

[Dialogos]

No it's not.

Yes it is.

Sorry, not going down that road again with you.

... 'cause it demonstrates exactly what I said it demonstrates...

Which was very quickly withdrawn.

You mean, which was very quickly withdrawn once Americans began calling "foul!"

Its all evidence of the incremental loss of liberty.

No, the government isn't going to take away the tax exempt status of churches tomorrow, but they will start targeting religious colleges and universities. More people, like Cochran, will get fired for daring to teach what the bible teaches. Finally, any "anti gay" speech or literature will be considered "hate speech" outside the church and then someone will ask, "why should we even tolerate it in churches?"

 

[Jose Fly]

Yes it is.

No it's not.

You mean, which was very quickly withdrawn once Americans began calling "foul!"

Yes, it was very quickly withdrawn, just as I noted.

Its all evidence of the incremental loss of liberty.

No, it's an incremental loss of Christian privilege. The country is becoming less Christian and more secular.

No, the government isn't going to take away the tax exempt status of churches tomorrow, but they will start targeting religious colleges and universities.

As I noted, they probably will take a look at subsidizing institutions that have policies that are not in line with the law. But that can only happen after discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation is prohibited by federal law.

Finally, any "anti gay" speech or literature will be considered "hate speech" outside the church and then someone will ask, "why should we even tolerate it in churches?"

Your paranoia is noted.

 

[Angel4Truth]

That was over a public business (a "hitching post"). Try again.

Churches are public and pastors often perform weddings for people who don't go to church there.

Just a couple gays wanting a hand out. A money and oppression opportunity for the fascists. We can look for it to exponentially increase.

 

[Angel4Truth]

First, its already in the churches. When you have fire chiefs being fired for what they say in church, and pastors in TX having their sermons subpoenaed.

thats the truth

 

[Jose Fly]

Churches are public

Churches are not public businesses. :duh:

and pastors often perform weddings for people who don't go to church there.

And they also refuse to perform weddings for all sorts of reasons. Don't believe me? Go to a Catholic church and try and get them to marry two divorced people.

Just a couple gays wanting a hand out. A money and oppression opportunity for the fascists. We can look for it to exponentially increase.

Gee....I can't imagine why Christians are coming out of this thing looking so bad.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Churches are not public businesses. :duh:

And business owners have christian rights under the constitution, ask Hobby Lobby. You could also ask hooters about how discrimination is acceptable when its your business model. (the right not to hire men as servers and women that they deem not acceptable body wise, upheld by the supreme court)

And they also refuse to perform weddings for all sorts of reasons. Don't believe me? Go to a Catholic church and try and get them to marry two divorced people.

Very good, you understand that a church and pastors can refuse to marry someone, youre learning.

Gee....I can't imagine why Christians are coming out of this thing looking so bad.

Because your opinion matters on anything Christian.

 

[Jose Fly]

And business owners have christian rights under the constitution, ask Hobby Lobby. You could also ask hooters about how discrimination is acceptable when its your business model. (the right not to hire men and women they deem not acceptable body wise, upheld by the supreme court)

I've not said otherwise.

Very good, you understand that a church and pastors can refuse to marry someone, youre learning.

You need to pay better attention. That's exactly what I've been saying the whole time, in contrast to all the paranoid fundamentalists who are convinced that the government is going to force churches to marry gays any day now.

Because your opinion matters on anything Christian.

Yep...you just keep ignoring the trends. That way, they're sure to continue. :up:

 

[Angel4Truth]

I've not said otherwise.



You need to pay better attention. That's exactly what I've been saying the whole time, in contrast to all the paranoid fundamentalists who are convinced that the government is going to force churches to marry gays any day now.

No, you have said otherwise, you have said that pastors who have a marriage business, must marry all who ask, and thats wrong, hooters proves you can discriminate in your business model.

A christian wedding chapel, can certainly do the same. Those who have been sued need to take it all the way to the supreme court.

The gays need to stop crying for others to stay out of their bedrooms, when they demand others be witnesses by demanding their participation and agreement.

 

[HisServant]

Hadn't considered this angle.

http://thefederalist.com/2015/06/29/ending-tax-exemptions-means-ending-churches/

The problem is is that these buildings were built on the backs of the public and the tax payers continue to suffer the lost revenues and stress on our infrastructure they cause.

Anyhow, we are called to be in the world, but not of it... if your church has become a 501c... you are 'of' the world and get what you deserve. (Churches shouldn't have mortgages either... nothing like giving money from the offering plate into the coffers of the big banks)

With any luck, this will cause churches to be more utilitarian in nature instead of so ornate and the money will go to the poor instead.

 

[Jose Fly]

No, you have said otherwise, you have said that pastors who have a marriage business, must marry all who ask, and thats wrong

No, I didn't say that either. I said that public businesses are subject to laws governing public businesses, such as anti-discrimination laws.

hooters proves you can discriminate in your business model.

This must be your first time thinking about these issues. On what basis was Hooters discriminating? If it was on the basis of race, then...

Former Hooters waitress awarded $250K in discrimination case

...they can't do that. If it's on the basis of something that's not specified in an anti-discrimination law, e.g., weight, they can.

A christian wedding chapel, can certainly do the same. Those who have been sued need to take it all the way to the supreme court.

They can't discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation, if the relevant anti-discrimination laws prohibit it.

The gays need to stop crying for others to stay out of their bedrooms, when they demand others be witnesses by demanding their participation and agreement.

No one is asking for agreement. And by "participation", all they're asking is to be treated like any other citizen when it comes to public business.

 

[Angel4Truth]

No, I didn't say that either. I said that public businesses are subject to laws governing public businesses, such as anti-discrimination laws.

And i just proved to you that according to the very supreme court that just made gay marriage legal, that discrimination is acceptable when its part of business model.

A christian business model, would follow christian principles. A christian wedding chapel, would follow biblical guidelines of marriage and gay isnt it.

 

[HisServant]

As for Churches.... they should refuse to marry any one that isn't a member in good standing. They are private 'clubs' and therefore can set its standards for membership.

End of story.... btw, I know many, many churches that already do this. They also require the couple to go through pre-marriage courses and pass a test before they will even schedule the wedding.

 

[Jose Fly]

And i just proved to you that according to the very supreme court that just made gay marriage legal, that discrimination is acceptable when its part of business model.

Again you're not paying attention. As I showed, "it's part of our business model" doesn't trump anti-discrimination laws. That's why Hooters lost their case with the black waitress.

A christian business model, would follow christian principles. A christian wedding chapel, would follow biblical guidelines of marriage and gay isnt it.

If the state or local anti-discrimination laws prohibit discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, the "Hitching Post" cannot refuse to marry gay couples, just as Hooters cannot discriminate against black waitresses.

 

[Jose Fly]

As for Churches.... they should refuse to marry any one that isn't a member in good standing. They are private 'clubs' and therefore can set its standards for membership.

End of story.... btw, I know many, many churches that already do this. They also require the couple to go through pre-marriage courses and pass a test before they will even schedule the wedding.

Yep, and they will remain free to do exactly that.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Again you're not paying attention. As I showed, "it's part of our business model" doesn't trump anti-discrimination laws.

The black waitress worked there, she sued over forced hair color, not over being discriminated against for being black or for not being hired, apples and oranges.

The suit i referenced is over business model. They can discriminate against those who do not have the required equipment for the business model.

Nice try though! LOL

You can discriminate based on age for things like pilots and drivers, you can discriminate based on disability for physical labor jobs, you can discriminate based on religion for churches and religious schools, and you can discriminate based on sex where sex appeal is the primary service.

All have been upheld in courts.