Theology Club: Bob Enyart's "The Plot" is he right?

[SaulToPaul 2]

Let me try:

There were Gentiles in the "commonwealth of Israel" during Acts. Some were circumcised and became Jews , and some were uncircumcised.

These are the Gentiles Paul was sent to first. They were in the commonwealth of Israel and in the promise made to Abraham because they were with the Jews in the synagogue worshiping the God of Abraham.


LATER, Paul was sent to Gentiles who were "aliens from the commonwealth of Israel". They were outside of the promise made to Abraham. In short, pagans.


This is what heir is showing you, waytogo.

 

[Lighthouse]

Bob, in The Plot sees all Gentiles as the same. For example: "Up until the Lord cast away Israel, the Gentiles (all the other nations of the world) were far from God."

I disagree.

Can you elaborate?

 

[heir]

Can you elaborate?

EDIT:

Bob used Ephesians 2:17 with his statement, "Up until the Lord cast away Israel, the Gentiles (all the other nations of the world) were far from God". It's funny he does because there are two groups in that one verse and both groups: the "you which were afar off" (strangers from the promise) and the "them that were nigh" (in the promise) contain "Gentiles".

Ephesians 2:17 KJV And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.I already did show the differences in Gentiles here,

Here are who I believe the two groups in the one Body are:

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3769022&postcount=73

 

[heir]

Let me try:

There were Gentiles in the "commonwealth of Israel" during Acts. Some were circumcised and became Jews , and some were uncircumcised.

These are the Gentiles Paul was sent to first. They were in the commonwealth of Israel and in the promise made to Abraham because they were with the Jews in the synagogue worshiping the God of Abraham.


LATER, Paul was sent to Gentiles who were "aliens from the commonwealth of Israel". They were outside of the promise made to Abraham. In short, pagans.


This is what heir is showing you, waytogo.

:up: excellent!

 

[way 2 go]

can any one show me Paul teaching you have to have good works
like the circumcised gospel?

 

[Nick M]

can any one show me Paul teaching you have to have good works
like the circumcised gospel?

You will have to ask the circumcision, be it the catholics or "pentecostals".

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

EDIT:

Bob used Ephesians 2:17 with his statement, "Up until the Lord cast away Israel, the Gentiles (all the other nations of the world) were far from God". It's funny he does because there are two groups in that one verse and both groups: the "you which were afar off" (strangers from the promise) and the "them that were nigh" (in the promise) contain "Gentiles".

Yes, sister heir, this is important.

There have always been Gentiles who were "near". There was provision for them under the Law. And there was provision for them in the Abrahamic covenant. And they didn't necessarily have to be circumcised.

 

[intojoy]

EDIT:

Bob used Ephesians 2:17 with his statement, "Up until the Lord cast away Israel, the Gentiles (all the other nations of the world) were far from God". It's funny he does because there are two groups in that one verse and both groups: the "you which were afar off" (strangers from the promise) and the "them that were nigh" (in the promise) contain "Gentiles".

Ephesians 2:17 KJV And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.I already did show the differences in Gentiles here,

Here are who I believe the two groups in the one Body are:

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3769022&postcount=73

Heir,

Did you assume that the Gentiles at the Gate and the Gentiles that went thru with circumcision were under the impression that or under a teaching that salvation was by works?

I think I read that in your link. Israel was never cast off, I'm not understanding that either.

If the purpose of the Law of Moses was to get people to work for their salvation then none of them could have been saved not even David. The purpose of that law was to make those believers attempt to reach sanctification thru the works of the law which produced spiritual immaturity and did not produce the spiritual maturity we can achieve in Christ thru grace living because the weakness of the flesh would use that law to sin more.

 

[heir]

Yes, sister heir, this is important.

There have always been Gentiles who were "near". There was provision for them under the Law. And there was provision for them in the Abrahamic covenant. And they didn't necessarily have to be circumcised.

Yes, amen, but we certainly cannot say the same thing about Gentiles like the Ephesians to whom Paul wrote the letter Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV (people like you and me).

 

[intojoy]

Bob Enyart's "The Plot" is he right?

Let me try:

There were Gentiles in the "commonwealth of Israel" during Acts. Some were circumcised and became Jews , and some were uncircumcised.

These are the Gentiles Paul was sent to first. They were in the commonwealth of Israel and in the promise made to Abraham because they were with the Jews in the synagogue worshiping the God of Abraham.


LATER, Paul was sent to Gentiles who were "aliens from the commonwealth of Israel". They were outside of the promise made to Abraham. In short, pagans.


This is what heir is showing you, waytogo.

Where's an example of Paul interacting with proselytes?

I don't recall seeing it in scripture. But I hadn't thought about it tho.

I know Paul went to the Jews first in every city and then turned to the Gentiles via his "to the Jew first" policy.

If they were anything like Elia, he really suffered.

 

[heir]

Heir,

Did you assume that the Gentiles at the Gate and the Gentiles that went thru with circumcision were under the impression that or under a teaching that salvation was by works?

I never made reference to any "gate". I'm not sure what you are asking.

My posts about Gentiles were to show that not all Gentiles in the Bible were the same. Some were circumcised "called Jews", some Greeks (blessers) who feared God and worked righteousness, while still others were aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world.

I think I read that in your link. Israel was never cast off, I'm not understanding that either.

Israel fell, but there was still a remnant according to the election of grace which God foreknew. We see Paul gathering them in the Body during the Acts provoking ministry. Israel was not cast away until the close of Acts.

 

[intojoy]

I never made reference to any "gate". I'm not sure what you are asking.



My posts about Gentiles were to show that not all Gentiles in the Bible were the same. Some were circumcised "called Jews", some Greeks (blessers) who feared God and worked righteousness, while still others were aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world.



Israel fell, but there was still a remnant according to the election of grace which God foreknew. We see Paul gathering them in the Body during the Acts provoking ministry. Israel was not cast away until the close of Acts.

Hi and sorry, the Gentiles who attached themselves to the God of Israel and did not want to fully proselytize for obvious reasons (uhum) were called Gentiles at the gate. Cornelius was one of these.

A lot of the members here seem like really great people. The dispensationalists are my favorite group among them. I remember seeing bob e on television years ago getting some bad publicity from the main stream lefty news folk. I never paid much attention then tho. I'm glad to read some thoughts of many who are part of his fellowship, my granpop attended Denver Bible College.

As a dispensational student myself I recommend dr Fruchtenbaum's book Israelology the Missing Link in systematic Theology. Because his style is so very thoroughly documented you should skip the first 650 pages in order to get right into what he describes as the only dispensationalist's weak area, an undeveloped area - Israel present.

There are also manuscript form teachings regarding the Jews, Gentiles and the Church.

Arnold was Ryrie's student at Dallas Theological. It is safe to define him as the next in line from Schofield, Schaffer, Ryrie. The work done for dispensational teaching by frucht surpassed them all according to his mentor and friend dr Ryrie.

Anyway its good to see your logical approach on TOL as well as others but not Nick M (haha joking).

Thx for responding


Pray for the peace of Jerusalem

 

[Lighthouse]

EDIT:

Bob used Ephesians 2:17 with his statement, "Up until the Lord cast away Israel, the Gentiles (all the other nations of the world) were far from God". It's funny he does because there are two groups in that one verse and both groups: the "you which were afar off" (strangers from the promise) and the "them that were nigh" (in the promise) contain "Gentiles".

Ephesians 2:17 KJV And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.I already did show the differences in Gentiles here,

Here are who I believe the two groups in the one Body are:

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3769022&postcount=73

Any Gentile in Israel was part of the nation of Israel, being part of the commonwealth. All other nations were far from God.

 

[way 2 go]

Gal 2:9 and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.


Paul's books are to gentiles the ,
the 12 to those under the law/circumcised.

if you were circumcised your under the law

Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes in the Dispersion: Greetings.

1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia

2Jn 1:1 The elder to the elect lady and her children


James Peter and John are writing to the circumcised.

the plot is not about all gentiles had to be circumcised to be saved.

 

[heir]

Any Gentile in Israel was part of the nation of Israel, being part of the commonwealth. All other nations were far from God.

Even if that were the case, Bob's comment is still in error. He used Ephesians 2 to make his case. Paul was not sent to the alien Gentile until much later.

It's not just about geography for some gentiles to have been in the commonwealth and others to have been aliens from it. It was about whether they were in the covenants of promise or strangers from it.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Paul's books are to gentiles

They are, but Paul was sent to the Jew first, then the Greek during Acts. So, his letters were to both.

 

[heir]

They are, but Paul was sent to the Jew first, then the Greek during Acts. So, his letters were to both.

pretty simple stuff

 

[heir]

Cornelius was not circumcised which means he was saved apart from Israel and is in the body.

Everyone who is in the Body of Christ got in by trusting the Lord believing the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). That is not what the scriptures show Peter preaching to Cornelius. And how could it be when it was a mystery before revealed to and through the apostle Paul Romans 16:25-27 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV?

Furthermore, everyone who is in the Body of Christ was baptized BY ONE SPIRIT into the one Body. Please show where it says Cornelius was baptized by one Spirit. As I said earlier in the thread: I see only two baptisms concerning Corne (Acts 10:44-45 KJV, and Acts 10:47-48 KJV); neither of which were by one Spirit into one Body (1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV). So, it's clear then, from the scriptures that Cornelius was not in the Body of Christ.

if he was in the kingdom he would have had to be circumcised.

unsupported by scripture. Even the nations who will inherit the kingdom prepared for them at the 2nd coming are those who blessed Israel. There is no mention of circumcision there either. Read it.

Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Matthew 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

Matthew 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

Matthew 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

Matthew 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

Matthew 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

you say gentiles have to be circumcised then no they don't

I said, not all Gentiles had to be circumcised period and showed why I believe they didn't. There seems to be a problem with you comprehending what I'm saying.

unbelieving Israel was cut off

Yes, Israel fell, but that still leaves the remnant which God foreknew. We still have Paul going to the Jew first all through the Acts period. You can't explain that, but the scripture does. It says there was a remnant according to the election of grace which God foreknew. The remnant explains why Paul did some very Jewish things in the Acts period (1 Corinthians 1:22 KJV).

Rom 11:32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

besides Rom 3:2 what other advantages ?

I hope you not saying Paul going to the Jews 1st was an advantage.

This is going in circles. I keep explaining my position and you keep saying next to nothing.

National Israel fell, but God did not cast away His people which He foreknew (Romans 11:1-2 KJV). There was (at that present time, Acts 20) a remnant according to the election of grace which God foreknew (Romans 11:5 KJV) It's not that hard to see that Paul was going to the Jew first and also to the Greek. The Jew had the advantage at the writing of Romans and Paul says why:

Romans 11:14 KJV If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

That's a crazy statement to make since Paul knows that God will return to Israel as is God's covenant when He shall take away their sins. Crazy, that is, UNLESS there was a remnant which God foreknew would believe Paul's my gospel and become members of the mystery Body of Christ (Romans 11:25-27 KJV).

1.no

(bob's an open theist)
all i found in the plot was
p.309
there has always been and always will be a remnant of Jews

Yes, I know Bob is OV. It plays a part in his inability or unwillingness to see what was really going on in Romans 11 and the deliberate language the Holy Spirit used therein.

 

[Nick M]

Where's an example of Paul interacting with proselytes?

I don't recall seeing it in scripture. But I hadn't thought about it tho.

Well, there is the letter to the Romans. And in Acts 13 where they say to the circumcision, see ya, we are outahere.

 

[way 2 go]

Originally Posted by way 2 go
Paul's books are to gentiles

They are, but Paul was sent to the Jew first,then the Greek during Acts. So, his letters were to both.

so ?

did he preach to be circumcised ?