Theology Club: Bob Enyart's "The Plot" is he right?

heir

TOL Subscriber
If it was all grace by faith, then Israel would not have been jealous.

Romans 11

11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
I don't know where some of these people get that stuff from. You should direct your comment to intojoy. He's the one that said, "Salvation was always by grace thru faith". Not me.
 

intojoy

BANNED
God does not forgive anyone just because He is big hearted to let their sins go, which according to heir anyway about Noah was by working Noah received grace, that's not logical.

God paid for sins. Everyone's.

Yeshua died not only for the sins that were committed after His death, but also for the sins committed prior to His death. He died not just for the sins of New Testament saints, but also for the sins of Old Testament saints. God could have judged the Old Testament saints immediately , but He deferred their judgment until the cross. Then that judgment fell upon the Messiah as their substitute as well as the substitute for New Testament believers. In that way, their sins were removed.

This is taught by Acts 17:30: The times of ignorance therefore God overlooked; but now he commands men that they should all everywhere repent: ...

He made the same point in Romans 3:25: ... whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; ... Again, he pointed out that the sins committed before the death of the Messiah could have been judged immediately , but they were deferred, temporarily overlooked or “passed over,” until the death of the Messiah as their substitute.

In Hebrews 10:4, the writer said: For it is impossible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins.

Animal sacrifice did not and could not remove the sins of the Old Testament saints; it merely covered them temporarily . Once the Messiah died, only then were their sins removed as well.


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heir

TOL Subscriber
God does not forgive anyone just because He is big hearted to let their sins go, which according to heir anyway about Noah was by working Noah received grace, that's not logical.
Be very careful to NOT put words in my mouth that never came from me. Noah "found grace in the eyes of the Lord". That's what the scripture says. I posted it. Read it. God told Noah to build an ark (Genesis 6) and Noah did to the saving of his house!

Hebrews 11:7 KJV By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
 

intojoy

BANNED
Be very careful to NOT say something about what I believe that I haven't said. Noah "found grace" in the eyes of the Lord. That's what the scripture says. I posted it. Read it.


Why should I be careful?
I'm not condemning you. I just don't get what you believe, that salvation was not by grace thru faith always. It can easily be proven.


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intojoy

BANNED
You're skipping Matthew 12 again.
End of discussion? It's my proof text that you don't know what was going on in Matthew 10 or after. No big deal, let's just disagree. Nice knowing u, I'll disappear from this thread.

Aloha


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heir

TOL Subscriber
Heir, I will read that later. Because I view this as an error I'm not in a rush to look at it.
I'll wait until you have before discussing the same topics any further with you then.

Maybe I shouldn't if you are convinced that what you believe is true. I did not get any response from anyone about the significance of the Matthew 12 rejection nor about the kingdom of heaven program. Are those topics going to go unanswered by you?
I replied to one of your posts there. I thought about responding to the long one, but there's just too much there to throw out a quick response to. I decided not to. I saw that you opened a thread on the same topic. Maybe you'll get some discussion with others on it there. And maybe you could start other threads out there about salvation always being by grace through faith. You'll surely get some hits.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
You're skipping Matthew 12 again.
End of discussion? It's my proof text that you don't know what was going on in Matthew 10 or after. No big deal, let's just disagree. Nice knowing u, I'll disappear from this thread.
:AMR: See my last post
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
With the exception of Peter being sent out of order to Cornelius' house, Peter never preached to any other Gentiles. Acts 2, 3, 4, 5...Peter preached to the Jews only. That's after the cross.

look at that gentiles being preached to

Act 2:11 both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God."

Everyone in the "My church" (the church at Jerusalem) up to this point is still under the law. That's why he says "Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation". We can glean from that, that there were no Gentiles prior to that to which Peter's message would have gone to. His ministry up unto that point was "to the lost sheep of the house of Israel". We can also see it here (Acts 10:36 KJV). Peter was not suppose to be going to all nations at this time either or it wouldn't be "unlawful" and he would not have had to ask:
yes he was
Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

and Acts 10:36 really
Matthew 10:5-6 the word was sent to Israel only before the cross



Acts 10:29 KJV Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me?

He would have simply preached to Cornelius without the question. So Cornelius answers Peter:


Acts 10:30 And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing,31 And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.

(Cornelius' prayers and alms had come up for a memorial before God Acts 10:4 KJV~the promise to Abraham Genesis 12:1-3 KJV)


32 Send therefore to Joppa, and call hither Simon, whose surname is Peter; he is lodged in the house of one Simon a tanner by the sea side: who, when he cometh, shall speak unto thee.33 Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God.

Peter perceives and responds

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

It's funny, that he just got done saying God is no respecter of persons and then says:

Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Peter was taught to keep the law by Jesus, Peter is in the kingdom
and he kept the law
Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision

Cornelius is in the body

if this happend today
a Jew who keeps the law and works preaches Jesus to a Gentile and the gentile accepts Jesus , is the gentile in the body or the kingdom?



Peter & the 11 were sent
Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

Nope (Matthew 10:23 KJV)
1. Mat 10:23 didn't happen because Israel was cut off .
2. Mat 10:23 comes before Mat 28:19 right ?
Jesus said go do you have him saying don't go ?




Fearing God and working righteousness is works.
Of course God knew, but he did not give Peter a new gospel. We've been over this before. Peter preached the same murder indictment against Israel (Acts 10:39 KJV) that he had before, but that God raised Him up the third day (Acts 10:40 KJV) and that through belief in His name they shall receive remission of sins (Acts 10:43 KJV). In Acts 2 Peter preached to "Repent" (of who Jesus Christ was, the Who, the "name") and be baptized identified (in water baptism) for the remission of sins and they would receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. That was the order.

But before Peter could finish preaching to Cornelius, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Acts 10:45 KJV And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

That's the same gift of the Holy Ghost of Acts 2:38 KJV, but it fell on them BEFORE water baptism-out of order.

They were astonished because they never expected something like that to happen.

Acts 10:46 KJV For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

And even with what had just taken place, Peter preaches water baptism, consistent with the same gospel he preached in Acts 2.

Acts 10:47-48 KJV Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

you skipped this :think:

the message to Peter is what changed
Act 10:28 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.



God used Peter's sending to Cornelius to validate Paul's ministry later; that it was on the up and up.
which is the whole point of this
so when Peter met Paul he would understand the change!

You were shown "he that feareth God and worketh righteousness is accepted with Him". That's not grace, that's works. You were also shown that Peter preached "through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins". That's not the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) that those in the Body trust the Lord believing for salvation. Come on. That's not, "For by grace are ye saved..."

Cornelius is in the body is what I wrote

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
I have
thank you to Bob Enyart
for Writing The Plot :thumb:
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
look at that gentiles being preached to

Act 2:11 both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God."
Those at Pentecost were identified as "Ye men of Israel:

Acts 2:22 KJV Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

"all the house of Israel"

Acts 2:36 KJV Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Yes, proselytes are mentioned and even by Paul were they "called a Jew" in Romans 2:17 KJV

Acts 2 was a feast day, a Jewish holy day. Those who were there were there in obedience to the law of Moses.

Deuteronomy 16:16 KJV Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose; in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles: and they shall not appear before the LORD empty:


yes he was
Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
You miss the point. Peter was not going to be sent to all nations til the Son of man be come (second coming).


Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Matthew 10:5-6 the word was sent to Israel only before the cross
That's not what it says. Matthew 10:23 KJV and it's not what we see Peter and the boys doing in Acts 2,3,4,5...(Cornelius being the exception).


Peter was taught to keep the law by Jesus, Peter is in the kingdom
and he kept the law
Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision

Cornelius is in the body

if this happend today
a Jew who keeps the law and works preaches Jesus to a Gentile and the gentile accepts Jesus , is the gentile in the body or the kingdom?
I don't do what ifs. I don't know what "preaches Jesus" means. The point where Cornelius is concerned and what you need to get through your head is:

No one got/gets into the Body of Christ WITHOUT trusting the Lord believing the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). It's not hard to figure out. Peter never preached it to Cornelius. He preached he that feareth God and worketh righteousness is accepted with Him. He preached that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. He preached water baptism. NO GOSPEL OF CHRIST was preached there. No gospel of Christ-no Body entry!


1. Mat 10:23 didn't happen because Israel was cut off .
I know the second coming didn't happen. What will happen when the Son of man be come? What will be preached and to whom?
2. Mat 10:23 comes before Mat 28:19 right ?
Jesus said go do you have him saying don't go ?
Actually, it's Bob who has them going to all nations and God redirecting and repealing :)dizzy:) it even though there was clearly an order that they weren't even to be going yet.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

In verse 18 and into 19, it says that Jesus says all power is given unto me in heaven and earth, go ye therefore, and teach all nations....

But Jesus was not operating under all power then and if He wasn't then they couldn't exactly "go ye therefore,..."


Cornelius is in the body is what I wrote
You keep saying it, but you haven't and can't show how he could be since he was never preached the gospel of Christ. I'm done talking about Cornelius.


I have
thank you to Bob Enyart
for Writing The Plot :thumb:
I sure hope you 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV without The Plot since the word of truth (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) isn't in there. You said it yourself.
 
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way 2 go

Well-known member
Those at Pentecost were identified as "Ye men of Israel:
some were not


You miss the point. Peter was not going to be sent to all nations til the Son of man be come (second coming).

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.


John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

no mention of second coming then go but you cant read it as written because you don't rightly divide the word



Matthew 10:5-6 the word was sent to Israel only before the cross

That's not what it says. Matthew 10:23 KJV and it's not what we see Peter and the boys doing in Acts 2,3,4,5...(Cornelius being the exception).

clearly not interested in the truth as much as your viewpoint

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.





you skipped this :think:

the message to Peter is what changed
Act 10:28 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.





I know the second coming didn't happen. What will happen when the Son of man be come? What will be preached and to whom?
Actually, it's Bob who has them going to all nations and God redirecting and repealing :)dizzy:) it even though there was clearly an order that they weren't even to be going yet.

where is the order after Mat 28:19




In verse 18 and into 19, it says that Jesus says all power is given unto me in heaven and earth, go ye therefore, and teach all nations....

then you contradict yourself

But Jesus was not operating under all power then and if He wasn't then they couldn't exactly "go ye therefore,..."
:dizzy:

You keep saying it, but you haven't and can't show how he could be since he was never preached the gospel of Christ.

never said Peter preached Paul's gospel
I used deductive reasoning
1.The message to Peter changed
2. If Israel is cut off when Paul is saved then anyone saved after that
is in the body.


I'm done talking about Cornelius.
:backflip:

I sure hope you 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV without The Plot since the word of truth (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) isn't in there. You said it yourself.
he didn't quote the whole bible :jawdrop:
Is that your proof text for all books you read?
No 1 cor 15:1-4 book gets recycled.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
some were not
The proselytes were most certainly identified with "Ye men of Israel in Acts 2. They were "called a Jew" by Paul They were there observing a Jewish holy day as required by the law of Moses. You don't have to like it, but it is what it is.

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.


John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

no mention of second coming then go but you cant read it as written because you don't rightly divide the word
First of all, If you're going to correct me, use the right term. It's "the word of truth" and I just so happen to study to shew thyself approved unto God by rightly dividing it.

Your John passages are to a certain audience to whom Jesus was sent in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. I'll stick with John passages at this particular time for you since you cited John.

According to John, Jesus should be made manifest to whom? Answer: Israel.

John 1:31 KJV And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.

You cited John 3:16. John 3:16 KJV is about Isaiah 9:6 KJV For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Who is the "us" in the passage? Answer: Israel. I love that verse in Is. 9. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell you when the government shall be upon His shoulder...Could it be it's when the Son of man be come?

Isaiah 9:7 KJV Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.



clearly not interested in the truth as much as your viewpoint
:rolleyes: that must be it

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Where
Where does it say as you said, that that was the case only before the cross? I don't see it, but I do see that they were commanded Matthew 10:5-6 until the Son of man be come.





you skipped this :think:

the message to Peter is what changed
Act 10:28 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.
I'm not skipping anything. I agree with the scripture. And I see WHAT he preached to Corne AFTER that. I know that Peter never preached the gospel of Christ to Corne, therefore he is in the "my church", the church at Jerusalem and NOT the BoC.

where is the order after Mat 28:19
If Jesus was operating under all power they would "go ye therefore, and teach all nations..." but He wasn't so they couldn't.

then you contradict yourself


:dizzy:
No, you just don't get it. Maybe someone else can show you. You won't hear it from me.


never said Peter preached Paul's gospel
Then Corne can't be in the Body. The gospel is what one has to believe to be in the Body of Christ. There's no way around it.
I used deductive reasoning
1.The message to Peter changed
What Peter preached shows you that Cornelius could NOT be in the BoC. You're not interested in what the scripture shows on the topic. Your "deductive reasoning" is your final authority on it. That's on you, not me.
2. If Israel is cut off when Paul is saved then anyone saved after that
is in the body.
Bad reasoning is what that is. No one is in the Body of Christ unless they trust the Lord after hearing and believe the word of truth. Peter never preached that in Acts 10. He didn't know it. Corne never heard it. He heard Peter's gospel.



:backflip:
I feel the same way, way2go


he didn't quote the whole bible :jawdrop:
Is that your proof text for all books you read?
No 1 cor 15:1-4 book gets recycled.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV is the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation (Ephesians 1:13 KJV). It is not the "whole Bible".

It's obvious that this conversation is going nowhere and it isn't from a lack of trying. Maybe you would see things if it were coming from someone else or maybe not at all.
 
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heir

TOL Subscriber
Do you understand that your aversion to specificity casts a light of suspicion upon your motives?
It doesn't matter what you think my motives may be. I have not handled the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth.

2 Corinthians 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

I presented plenty in this thread about the problems that I see in The Plot and what I believe the scriptures teach. Even when you came in the thread, I tried to direct you to posts where I had already addressed what you were inquiring about. When you came back with a "no duh, Dick Tracy" I thought it was rude and immature. I called you on it. Get over it. Paul was sent more than once. Acts 22:17-21 KJV is the second sending. The Plot also has this as Stam did~mixed in with the first sending.

Your first hint that it is a different sending is that it says, "And it came to pass". When that is written, some time has passed from the verses prior. It could be days, months, years...
 

Lighthouse

Star-Spangled Kid
It doesn't matter what you think my motives may be. I have not handled the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth.

2 Corinthians 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

I presented plenty in this thread about the problems that I see in The Plot and what I believe the scriptures teach. Even when you came in the thread, I tried to direct you to posts where I had already addressed what you were inquiring about. When you came back with a "no duh, Dick Tracy" I thought it was rude and immature. I called you on it. Get over it. Paul was sent more than once. Acts 22:17-21 KJV is the second sending. The Plot also has this as Stam did~mixed in with the first sending.

Your first hint that it is a different sending is that it says, "And it came to pass". When that is written, some time has passed. It could be days, months, years...
What part of Acts 22, specifically, shows that Paul was sent twice? I'm not seeing it.

You make the claim that v17-21 is the second, so where is the first?
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
What part of Acts 22, specifically, shows that Paul was sent twice? I'm not seeing it.
It shows the second sending. I took a look back in the thread. You wanted to know what "shows us this was much later than his initially being sent". It screams different! Look at verse 17 in Acts 22. That is not what happened in Acts 9. Paul (then Saul) was not in the temple praying and in a trance when the risen, ascended Lord Jesus Christ first appeared to him in Acts 9. Was he?

Acts 22:17 And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;

Of course not. Saul was here in Acts 9 at the first appearing:

Acts 9:1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

Acts 9:2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

Acts 9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:


You make the claim that v17-21 is the second, so where is the first?
Luke's account in Acts 26 about the Acts 9 encounter gives us much detail. Pay close attention to the language in the King James Bible. There is not only one appearing and sending, but the promise of a future appearing and instructions. There is a specific audience and an immediate sending in Acts 9..." unto whom now I send thee". Watch the tenses.

Acts 26:13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.

Acts 26:14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Acts 26:15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

Acts 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

Acts 26:17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,




The sending in Acts 22 is different. "Now send thee" is not the same as "will send thee". The tenses are different, not to mention that I believe the Gentiles to whom Paul was making known that he was going to be sent in Acts 22, were different.

Acts 22:21 And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.

Acts 22:22 And they gave him audience unto this word, and then lifted up their voices, and said, Away with such a fellow from the earth: for it is not fit that he should live.

Acts 22:23 And as they cried out, and cast off their clothes, and threw dust into the air,

Acts 22:24 The chief captain commanded him to be brought into the castle, and bade that he should be examined by scourging; that he might know wherefore they cried so against him.

That is the "cause" that Paul was a "prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles" (Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV, Ephesians 3:1 KJV).
 
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way 2 go

Well-known member
I presented plenty in this thread about the problems that I see in The Plot and what I believe the scriptures teach.

Paul was sent more than once. Acts 22:17-21 KJV is the second sending. The Plot also has this as Stam did~mixed in with the first sending.

Your first hint that it is a different sending is that it says, "And it came to pass". When that is written, some time has passed from the verses prior. It could be days, months, years...

I did a search on "The Plot" acts 22:21 is mentioned on page56 sent

acts 26:10 p195 196 persecution

acts 26:13 p151 ministry of the Spirit

so no mixing in "The Plot"


Paul was sent more than once

so?
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
I don't know where some of these people get that stuff from. You should direct your comment to intojoy. He's the one that said, "Salvation was always by grace thru faith". Not me.

I was just giving them something to think about. Romans 11:11 shows in one verse, even if others couldn't see that James 2 and Romans 4-6 are completely incompatible, that there was a huge shift. Otherwise, Israel would not be jealous.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
I did a search on "The Plot" acts 22:21 is mentioned on page56 sent

acts 26:10 p195 196 persecution

acts 26:13 p151 ministry of the Spirit

so no mixing in "The Plot"
I'm not sure what it is you are trying to say here, but the second sending of Paul is mixed in with the other sending. Quoting a verse in a book does not necessarily prove it is being taught as it should be or in the time frame it should be. To my knowledge, Bob does not teach that the sendings were different. And how could he? He doesn't recognize the remnant according to the election of grace which God foreknew that Paul gathered through the Acts period (that included Gentiles called Greeks) nor does he recognize the difference there was between a "Greek" and a Gentile like the Ephesian to whom Paul wrote the letter.


Paul was sent more than once

so?
"So?", It's kind of a big deal. That God's grace would extend to the likes of people like you and me is amazing! If Paul hadn't been sent again to finish his course with joy and the ministry he received of the Lord Jesus to testify the gospel of the grace of God to people like us who in time past had no hope (Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV), we wouldn't be in the position we are today (Ephesians 2:13 KJV, Ephesians 3:12 KJV).

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Thank God, He had a mystery that included the likes of you and me!

Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:


Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

And I noticed this morning while looking beyond the pages you brought up that The Plot has the "wall of separation" (which is the "wall of partition") as being between Jew and Gentile. That's another way that we can see that Bob sees no difference between that of the Gentiles in the commonwealth and aliens from it not to mention the problems that can stem from teaching that the wall of partition was between Jew and Gentile. Red flags everywhere.
 
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way 2 go

Well-known member
I'm not sure what it is you are trying to say here, but the second sending of Paul is mixed in with the other sending. Quoting a verse in a book does not necessarily prove it is being taught as it should be or in the time frame it should be. To my knowledge, Bob does not teach that the sendings were different. And how could he? He doesn't recognize the remnant according to the election of grace which God foreknew that Paul gathered through the Acts period (that included Gentiles called Greeks) nor does he recognize the difference there was between a "Greek" and a Gentile like the Ephesian to whom Paul wrote the letter.

"So?", It's kind of a big deal. That God's grace would extend to the likes of people like you and me is amazing! If Paul hadn't been sent again to finish his course with joy and the ministry he received of the Lord Jesus to testify the gospel of the grace of God to people like us who in time past had no hope (), we wouldn't be in the position we are today (, ).

For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Thank God, He had a mystery that included the likes of you and me!

That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:


Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

And I noticed this morning while looking beyond the pages you brought up that The Plot has the "wall of separation" (which is the "wall of partition") as being between Jew and Gentile. That's another way that we can see that Bob sees no difference between that of the Gentiles in the commonwealth and aliens from it not to mention the problems that can stem from teaching that the wall of partition was between Jew and Gentile. Red flags everywhere.
the calling\ first sending was enough .God said now

Act 26:17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles,
unto whom now I send thee,

his calling was to be the "apostle of the Gentiles"
Rom_11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

the second sending as you like to call it was a "get out of dodge "
or you are going to get killed. better a prisoner than dead

Act 22:18 And saw him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me.
...
Act 22:22 And they gave him audience unto this word, and then lifted up their voices, and said, Away with such a fellow from the earth: for it is not fit that he should live.
 
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