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  • #46
    Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
    BR... please try to pay attention and use logical reasoning.

    NO, the other SHEEP are NOT gentiles... God never uses that term to describe gentiles.... God uses that term to speak about His people, Israel.

    I demonstrated CLEARLY from the scripture that the "other sheep" were Israelite's scattered into gentiles lands.

    Paul NEVER calls believers sheep. The word only shows up ONCE in all of Paul's epistles

    Rom 8:35-37 KJV Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? (36) As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. (37) Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

    Here Paul is QUOTING the old testament and saying NAY (NO) we are NOT "sheep for the slaughter".
    Are the other sheep mentioned in John 10:16 Gentiles.

    from gotquestions.org

    To understand who the “other sheep” from John 10:16 are, we must begin with the context of the verse and examine the whole passage. We know from many Bible passages that sheep are a symbol of true believers who follow Christ, their true Shepherd. His sheep hear His voice and follow Him. If He says that there are “other” sheep, then we must identify the original sheep that the “others” are different from.

    Beginning in chapter 9 of John, we find Jesus discoursing at great length with the Pharisees after He healed a man who was born blind. He compares the man’s simple faith with the unbelief of the Pharisees and condemns them for their willful spiritual blindness. He begins by denouncing the false shepherds of Israel—the blind, self-appointed leaders who drew the people away from the true knowledge and kingdom of their Messiah (John 9:39-41). Then in chapter 10, He explains at great length the nature of true sheep, those who follow the Good Shepherd, sent and appointed by God. True sheep are those who listen to the voice of the Shepherd (v. 3) and follow Him (v. 4) and know Him (v. 14). He can only be speaking here of the true sheep of Israel because, up to that point, His ministry was confined to the sheep of Israel.

    In verse 16, Jesus refers to the “other sheep,” and those can only be sheep that are outside of Israel, in other words, Gentiles. But the Gentiles who would follow Him are no less sheep than the true sheep of Israel. In fact, Jesus makes it clear that the Gentile sheep would also hear His voice and follow Him, and, eventually, there would be only one flock and one Shepherd. This is the mystery of the universal body of Christ, the church, which Paul refers to in Ephesians 3:6, “This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.” A mystery in Scripture is usually something not revealed previously, and this mystery—one universal church with both Jews and Gentiles brought together in one body in the Messiah—was so shocking to the Pharisees that they accused Jesus of being a demon-possessed lunatic (John 10:20-21).

    Paul’s commission from Christ was to “preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ” (Ephesians 6:8) because the Gentiles, the “other sheep,” needed to be brought into the fold of the true Shepherd. Paul explains in Romans 11:16-36 the mystery of the church by using the imagery of a branch (the Gentiles) being grafted into the tree (Israel). Israel has been temporarily set aside until the “full number of the Gentiles has come in” (Romans 11:25). This is occurring now in the Church Age, but eventually both Jews and Gentiles will live in glorious harmony in the Millennial Kingdom and then in eternity when all true sheep will follow their Shepherd forever as one body.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
      Are the other sheep mentioned in John 10:16 Gentiles.

      from gotquestions.org
      gotqestions is NOT an authority on the Bible... The Bible is!!

      You've been shown CLEAR, IN CONTEXT scripture. Ignore it at your own loss.
      All of my ancestors are human.
      Originally posted by Squeaky
      That explains why your an idiot.
      Originally posted by God's Truth
      Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
      Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
      (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

      1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
      (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

      Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
        gotqestions is NOT an authority on the Bible... The Bible is!!

        You've been shown CLEAR, IN CONTEXT scripture. Ignore it at your own loss.
        OK but the fold is Israel and other sheep are from outside the fold. I don't understand how you guys do not see that other sheep have to be other than Israel.
        He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

        Jim Elliot

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
          OK but the fold is Israel and other sheep are from outside the fold. I don't understand how you guys do not see that other sheep have to be other than Israel.
          Because they are NOT "other than Israel". They are Israelites scattered abroad.

          As Clete has also noted, at that time Jesus was NOT addressing anyone but Israel.

          We don't understand how you cannot see that.
          Last edited by JudgeRightly; August 26th, 2019, 10:56 AM. Reason: no need for the apostrophe in Israelites
          All of my ancestors are human.
          Originally posted by Squeaky
          That explains why your an idiot.
          Originally posted by God's Truth
          Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
          Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
          (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

          1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
          (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

          Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
            Because they are NOT "other than Israel". They are Israelites scattered abroad.

            As Clete has also noted, at that time Jesus was NOT addressing anyone but Israel.

            We don't understand how you cannot see that.
            Then how do you explain the woman at the well in John 4? Did He speak to those outside of Israel or not?
            He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

            Jim Elliot

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
              Then how do you explain the woman at the well in John 4? Did He speak to those outside of Israel or not?
              She was not a gentile, she was a Samaritan.

              Samaria is part of the land of Israel.

              Click image for larger version

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              It says where she is from many times right there in John 4:

              Joh 4:4-9 KJV And he must needs go through Samaria. (5) Then cometh he to a city of Samaria, which is called Sychar, near to the parcel of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph. (6) Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour. (7) There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink. (8) (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.) (9) Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.

              Your primary problem is that you have treated the myths of Churchianity as the truth and have rejected the Bible.
              All of my ancestors are human.
              Originally posted by Squeaky
              That explains why your an idiot.
              Originally posted by God's Truth
              Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
              Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
              (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

              1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
              (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

              Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                Because they are NOT "other than Israel". They are Israelites scattered abroad.

                As Clete has also noted, at that time Jesus was NOT addressing anyone but Israel.

                We don't understand how you cannot see that.
                If they are Jews why is the term "other" used? It seems to assume that there are others than jews.
                He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                Jim Elliot

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                  If they are Jews why is the term "other" used? It seems to assume that there are others than jews.
                  Other in THAT CONTEXT refers to location and not lineage.

                  P.S. Why did you completely ignore this post? http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5351403
                  All of my ancestors are human.
                  Originally posted by Squeaky
                  That explains why your an idiot.
                  Originally posted by God's Truth
                  Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                  Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                  (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                  1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                  (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                  Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                    Other in THAT CONTEXT refers to location and not lineage.

                    P.S. Why did you completely ignore this post? http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5351403
                    Because I agree with your interpretation that she is part Jew. You do realize that many study materials disagree with your position on this entire topic, don't you?
                    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                    Jim Elliot

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                      Because I agree with your interpretation that she is part Jew. You do realize that many study materials disagree with you position, don't you?
                      You do realize that popularity is not proof of truth, don't you?

                      You are clinging to myths and avoiding truth.
                      All of my ancestors are human.
                      Originally posted by Squeaky
                      That explains why your an idiot.
                      Originally posted by God's Truth
                      Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                      Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                      (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                      1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                      (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                      Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                        You do realize that popularity is not proof of truth, don't you?

                        You are clinging to myths and avoiding truth.
                        I will agree to disagree with you. Other still means something other that what is proposed.
                        He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                        Jim Elliot

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                          I will agree to disagree with you. Other still means something other that what is proposed.
                          Other SHEEP cannot refer to gentiles because God NEVER refers to gentiles that way anywhere in the Bible.

                          So go on believing your myth. You clearly love it more than the Word of God.
                          All of my ancestors are human.
                          Originally posted by Squeaky
                          That explains why your an idiot.
                          Originally posted by God's Truth
                          Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                          Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                          (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                          1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                          (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                          Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                            Other SHEEP cannot refer to gentiles because God NEVER refers to gentiles that way anywhere in the Bible.

                            So go on believing your myth. You clearly love it more than the Word of God.
                            Why do others disagree with you, ie Complete Jewish Bible, Discover God Study Bible, Ryrie Study Bible?
                            He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                            Jim Elliot

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                              Why do others disagree with you, ie Complete Jewish Bible, Discover God Study Bible, Ryrie Study Bible?
                              Are you, once again, trying to use the fallacious logic that something is true based on how many people believe it?

                              Instead, why don't you address the arguments?

                              Where, ANYWHERE, in the Bible does God refer to gentiles (believers or not) as SHEEP?

                              He does not, ever ... God refers to Israel as His sheep.

                              Why don't you also address the fact that Paul never calls any believer a sheep in any of his epistles?

                              Why do ignore what I post and just keep going back to your Churchianity?

                              I would hope that you would be more serious about the facts instead of who believes what.
                              All of my ancestors are human.
                              Originally posted by Squeaky
                              That explains why your an idiot.
                              Originally posted by God's Truth
                              Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                              Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                              (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                              1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                              (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                              Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Why do ignore what I post and just keep going back to your Churchianity?
                                . Because you are lost in your unbelief and the fact that Other sheep will be brought into the fold. You have seen where many have believed that the others in verse 16 0f John 10 are Gentiles, who else would it be. Other Jews in the dispersion? Where is your proof?
                                He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                                Jim Elliot

                                Comment

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