The false gospel of grace

Hobie

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He did not just come for the lost sheep of Israel.

But as Jesus stated
John 10:16
And other sheep I have,
which are not of this fold: them also I must bring,
and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold,
and one shepherd.

Amen
 

Right Divider

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And He also says in John that He came for others. John 10:16

Joh 10:16 KJV And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

It doesn't just says "others", it says other SHEEP. God refers to Israel as His sheep. Paul never once refers to believers as sheep.

Jer 50:17 KJV Israel is a scattered sheep; the lions have driven him away: first the king of Assyria hath devoured him; and last this Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon hath broken his bones.

The "other sheep" that Jesus was referring to are the Israelites scattered into the gentiles nations.

Jer 23:1-8 KJV Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD. (2) Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD. (3) And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase. (4) And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD. (5) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. (6) In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. (7) Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; (8) But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.

That was what the good Shepherd was talking about.
 

beloved57

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Paul preached the Gospel of God's Grace. Acts 20:24

But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
 

JudgeRightly

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Paul preached the Gospel of God's Grace. Acts 20:24

But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
And?
 

Bright Raven

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Joh 10:16 KJV And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

It doesn't just says "others", it says other SHEEP. God refers to Israel as His sheep. Paul never once refers to believers as sheep.

Jer 50:17 KJV Israel is a scattered sheep; the lions have driven him away: first the king of Assyria hath devoured him; and last this Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon hath broken his bones.

The "other sheep" that Jesus was referring to are the Israelites scattered into the gentiles nations.

Jer 23:1-8 KJV Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD. (2) Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD. (3) And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase. (4) And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD. (5) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. (6) In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. (7) Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; (8) But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.

That was what the good Shepherd was talking about.

The term "other sheep" refers to the Gentiles (Isaiah 56:6-8 and Ephesians 3:6). After Jesus death and resurrection the good news went out into the world, and Christ's sheep among the Gentiles responded to the Good Shepards voice. All who were chosen for eternal life became believers (Acts 13:48).
 

JudgeRightly

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The term "other sheep" refers to the Gentiles (Isaiah 56:6-8 and Ephesians 3:6).

:think:

“Also the sons of the foreigner Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him, And to love the name of the Lord , to be His servants— Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And holds fast My covenant—Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices Will be accepted on My altar; For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”The Lord God, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, says, “Yet I will gather to him Others besides those who are gathered to him.” - Isaiah 56:6-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah56:6-8&version=NKJV

Nope, that's talking about Gentiles who become Jews, who take part in the covenant God established with Israel.

:think:

For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles—if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you,how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already,by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ),which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets:that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel,of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power. - Ephesians 3:1-7 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians3:1-7&version=NKJV

Nope. Completely different.

The nation of Israel is not a body, never described as a body, and was never given a dispensation of Grace, but instead, Law, and the dispensation of grace was not revealed to Israel, but kept a mystery from the creation of the world to Paul, as Paul says, "which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets..."

After Jesus death and resurrection the good news went out into the world, and Christ's sheep among the Gentiles responded to the Good Shepards voice.

How soon after? and how far did it go? Which books do you learn this from?

All who were chosen for eternal life became believers (Acts 13:48).

Rather, it's simply, to use an analogy, saying that those who purchased bus tickets got on the bus.

It wasn't predetermined (and I use that term loosely) beforehand who would purchase tickets.
 

Bright Raven

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:think:

“Also the sons of the foreigner Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him, And to love the name of the Lord , to be His servants— Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And holds fast My covenant—Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices Will be accepted on My altar; For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”The Lord God, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, says, “Yet I will gather to him Others besides those who are gathered to him.” - Isaiah 56:6-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah56:6-8&version=NKJV

Nope, that's talking about Gentiles who become Jews, who take part in the covenant God established with Israel.

:think:

For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles—if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you,how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already,by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ),which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets:that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel,of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power. - Ephesians 3:1-7 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians3:1-7&version=NKJV

Nope. Completely different.

The nation of Israel is not a body, never described as a body, and was never given a dispensation of Grace, but instead, Law, and the dispensation of grace was not revealed to Israel, but kept a mystery from the creation of the world to Paul, as Paul says, "which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets..."



How soon after? and how far did it go? Which books do you learn this from?



Rather, it's simply, to use an analogy, saying that those who purchased bus tickets got on the bus.

It wasn't predetermined (and I use that term loosely) beforehand who would purchase tickets.

Do you believe in Jesus. Are you a Jew? You and I are Part of the "other".
 

Right Divider

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The term "other sheep" refers to the Gentiles (Isaiah 56:6-8 and Ephesians 3:6).
No, it does not and your scripture does not show that it does.

After Jesus death and resurrection the good news went out into the world, and Christ's sheep among the Gentiles responded to the Good Shepards voice. All who were chosen for eternal life became believers (Acts 13:48).
In Acts 2:22, after Jesus' resurrection, Peter was still preaching to Israel only.

The "no difference" between Jews and gentiles comes later and was revealed to and through the apostle Paul.
 

Bright Raven

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No, it does not and your scripture does not show that it does.


In Acts 2:22, after Jesus' resurrection, Peter was still preaching to Israel only.

The "no difference" between Jews and gentiles comes later and was revealed to and through the apostle Paul.

What you are saying is that if you are not a Jew you cannot be a follower of Jesus
 

JudgeRightly

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You and Right Divider have both said it. If you are not a Jew, you cannot be a sheep.
That's not what you asserted.

This is what you asserted:
What you are saying is that if you are not a Jew you cannot be a follower of Jesus
Where did we say that if one is not a Jew (and I'll even go so far as to include proselytes in that too) he is not a follower of Christ?
 

Bright Raven

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That's not what you asserted.

This is what you asserted:Where did we say that if one is not a Jew (and I'll even go so far as to include proselytes in that too) he is not a follower of Christ?

Answer the question honestly. Can Gentiles be sheep of Christ?
 

JudgeRightly

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Answer the question honestly. Can Gentiles be sheep of Christ?
Under the current dispensation, no. Disciples, sure, followers, sure. Sheep? No. That title was reserved for the people in covenant with God through Israel's "program."

However, under the previous covenant of circumcision, yes, Gentiles could become sheep.

Isaiah, recording God's words, describes these people in the passage you provided earlier.

“Also the sons of the foreigner Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him, And to love the name of the Lord , to be His servants— Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And holds fast My covenant—Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices Will be accepted on My altar; For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”The Lord God, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, says, “Yet I will gather to him Others besides those who are gathered to him.” - Isaiah 56:6-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah56:6-8&version=NKJV

Note that the passage US making the distinction between foreigner (Gentile) and those who hold the covenant (Israel).

Contrast that with Paul saying there is no longer Jew nor Gentile.
 

Bright Raven

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Under the current dispensation, no. Disciples, sure, followers, sure. Sheep? No. That title was reserved for the people in covenant with God through Israel's "program."

However, under the previous covenant of circumcision, yes, Gentiles could become sheep.

Isaiah, recording God's words, describes these people in the passage you provided earlier.

“Also the sons of the foreigner Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him, And to love the name of the Lord , to be His servants— Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And holds fast My covenant—Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices Will be accepted on My altar; For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”The Lord God, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, says, “Yet I will gather to him Others besides those who are gathered to him.” - Isaiah 56:6-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah56:6-8&version=NKJV

Note that the passage US making the distinction between foreigner (Gentile) and those who hold the covenant (Israel).

Contrast that with Paul saying there is no longer Jew nor Gentile.

Then who are the other sheep in John 16:10?
 
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