The earth is flat and we never went to the moon--Part II

[Stuu]

Thanks for conjuring "living things" and "trolls" in Antarctica, which nobody here has even hinted at. Makes me wonder what else your vain imaginings have cooked up. And if you don't know by now that your beloved nasa facts and the whole moon landings charade is ALL Fake, then you'll stay stuck in your imagination of things never asserted.

Where did I say anything about loving NASA? This was an opportunity for you to address their claims, which I think you should do, given that their photographs are being linked to here. They all show oblate spheroid photographs of the earth, some taken from the moon. So, here's your chance to demonstrate that you are not guilty of defamation.

Go for it!

Stuart

 

[patrick jane]

Where did I say anything about loving NASA? This was an opportunity for you to address their claims, which I think you should do, given that their photographs are being linked to here. They all show oblate spheroid photographs of the earth, some taken from the moon. So, here's your chance to demonstrate that you are not guilty of defamation.

Go for it!

Stuart

Nice try, but as everyone paying attention knows, I don't give nasa data any credence whatsoever. Maybe you forget where I KNEW I LIVED for 50 years. I was 100% positive I was on a fling spinning ball, I'm not 100% positive anymore.

Defamation? Another conjured construct by you because you're running out of material, meaning "globe proof" -


This is what you favorite solar system has been doing for 4.9 billion years :
Only 3 minutes - Fascinating and Completely Made Up

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

If you actually know him and take his word for it then why did you not answer my questions to you concerning those things? Again, did you actually ask Chippy whether the sun path where he lives occurs in the northern sky or the southern sky from his vantage point? Everyone else but Chippy the chipmunk says that the sun crosses the sky in the northern portions of the sky in that area of the southern hemisphere. But Chippy makes no such claim in the video you posted, as far as I know, unless you would like to provide the minute mark where he makes such a claim? I suspect that Chippy the happy chipmunk never even thought about such a thing because it has never even occurred to him that people in the northern hemisphere do not see the same path of the sun which Chippy the chipmunk sees in his daily routine, (lol).

Moving on to the map.

 

[daqq]

Moving on to the map.

For anyone who is truly interested in understanding what I am talking about; I just found a great app for this. Go to the following and click on the map anywhere you want to see the path of the sun. By clicking in the northern hemisphere, such as somewhere in the United States, then clicking next in the southern hemisphere such as somewhere in South America, like Brazil, Peru, Chile, or Argentina, you will immediately see the reversal of the angle from which the sun is viewed as crossing overhead, (the path of the sun is in the southern sky as viewed from the northern hemisphere and in the northern sky as viewed from the southern hemisphere).

Moreover you can click on the equatorial region approximately between the two hemispheres and see that the path of the sun will be displayed in a fairly straight line overhead. These three different views of the paths of the sun as viewed from the earth are simply not possible on a flat earth model. The flat-earthers will never overcome this obstacle: it is empirical visual evidence which is catastrophic to the flat earth theory.

I set it for Buenos Aires in the following link just for fun:

Suncalc: sun position
http://suncalc.net/#/-34.6197,-58.3525,2/2018.03.11/23:33

 

[Stuu]

Defamation? Another conjured construct by you because you're running out of material, meaning "globe proof" -

Don't worry yourself, no shortage of material, I was just slowing down to give you a chance to respond.

When you make claims about NASA, how do you justify those claims?

Stuart

 

[DFT_Dave]

Why should I believe you when I can go right back to that link and find the graphic with ease:



Therein is the map for 3/11/2018 which I copied and posted on another hosting site so that it would remain permanent just as I said in the edit in blue. Here is the same link with the current path of the sun projected for tomorrow because today the sun has already set, (as I stated, the images are time sensitive because they are daily images). Please note the date on the bottom of the image is for tomorrow, 3/12/2018.

https://www.gaisma.com/en/location/buenos-aires.html

All I did was click on the same link and this image was there.
Why you cannot do the same is beyond me.

PS ~ So that I do not end up being accused of lying in a couple of days: the above image will disappear by this time tomorrow and another image will be found because the images are date sensitive. The next image will of course have a time stamp for the 13th, then the next daily image will be for the 14th, and so on and so on.

The angle for the sun is built on a plane as if the earth was flat and a circle.

View attachment 26270

Since the distance of the sun is not a factor in its angle it is presumed the arc of the sun's path is the opposite of what would be expected if the earth was flat from the north compared to the south.

All anyone "really" sees, from any location on earth, is the sun rising and setting as it moves across the sky. No one anywhere sees any arc or spends all day trying to observe it.

The idea that there is an opposite arc from north to south is not proven by the angles of the sun. The opposing arc argument presumes a globe but does not prove it.

Everywhere on earth we see the sun move across the sky from lower in the sky to higher in the sky, closer to us and further away from us through the seasons.

--Dave

 

[Stuu]

All anyone "really" sees, from any location on earth, is the sun rising and setting as it moves across the sky. No one anywhere sees any arc or spends all day trying to observe it.

I have lived in both the Northern hemisphere and the Southern hemisphere (where I currently reside). In the North, the sun's path arcs through the direction indicated by the south pole of a compass, and in the South the sun's path arcs through the direction indicated by the north pole of a compass.

Some of us do observe these things. We aren't all religious.

Stuart

 

[daqq]

The angle for the sun is built on a plane as if the earth was flat and a circle.

View attachment 26270

Since the distance of the sun is not a factor in its angle it is presumed the arc of the sun's path is the opposite of what would be expected if the earth was flat from the north compared to the south.

All anyone "really" sees, from any location on earth, is the sun rising and setting as it moves across the sky. No one anywhere sees any arc or spends all day trying to observe it.

The idea that there is an opposite arc from north to south is not proven by the angles of the sun. The opposing arc argument presumes a globe but does not prove it.

Everywhere on earth we see the sun move across the sky from lower in the sky to higher in the sky, closer to us and further away from us through the seasons.

--Dave

There really isn't any arc at all because what we all see is due to the fact that we are on a globe with a curved surface that is rotating and tilted on its axis of rotation. The sun is stationary relative to our position because we are also in an orbit around the sun. I know you already understand these things, being that you appear to understand the commonly accepted view, but my point cannot be stressed enough because in the flat-earth model there is no way for you to explain what is witnessed from the ground in the various locations and latitudes on the earth. Here is the same point once again from the most recent link which I posted on the previous page:

For anyone who is truly interested in understanding what I am talking about; I just found a great app for this. Go to the following and click on the map anywhere you want to see the path of the sun. By clicking in the northern hemisphere, such as somewhere in the United States, then clicking next in the southern hemisphere such as somewhere in South America, like Brazil, Peru, Chile, or Argentina, you will immediately see the reversal of the angle from which the sun is viewed as crossing overhead, (the path of the sun is in the southern sky as viewed from the northern hemisphere and in the northern sky as viewed from the southern hemisphere).

Moreover you can click on the equatorial region approximately between the two hemispheres and see that the path of the sun will be displayed in a fairly straight line overhead. These three different views of the paths of the sun as viewed from the earth are simply not possible on a flat earth model. The flat-earthers will never overcome this obstacle: it is empirical visual evidence which is catastrophic to the flat earth theory.

I set it for Buenos Aires in the following link just for fun:

Suncalc: sun position
http://suncalc.net/#/-34.6197,-58.3525,2/2018.03.11/23:33

From a flat earth map and viewpoint you cannot explain these three different views of the path of the sun, which occur in varying degrees all of the time, each and every day, because as already stated: the three lines or circles for the tropics and the equator are actually parallel lines around a globe, a sphere, which is rotating and tilted on its axis. And this of course goes right back to the point made in the video from Pg.1 because this is precisely what the video is speaking about in simpler geometric drawings:

Try to ignore what may be taken as inflammatory statements toward flat-earthers at the beginning of this video and concentrate primarily on what is said commencing from around the 14:30 minute mark onward:

I just went and made this image file from the video:

It is very simple: these are physical observations taken from these three different locations on the earth, all on the same day, (I cannot tell by the sound quality but I believe he means an equinox, (but may be speaking later of a solstice because he mentions December)), and the path of the sun moves in three different directions, that is, a straight line across the equator and opposing curvatures on the the two tropics. This is actually the curvature of the earth which is being revealed in the three different paths of the sun which all occur on the same day: not the sun itself moving in three different directions at the same time, (which is impossible). This is not possible on a flat earth model and the various types of sundials work for the very same reasons and in much the same way because the earth is spherical and spinning. You can theoretically place sundials at three locations on the same day, (I believe the equinoxes), on the two tropics and the equator, and they will all work properly so long as they are positioned correctly. Again these are physical observations: there is no question about these things, and they cannot work if the earth is flat and the sun is moving in a circle above a flat earth model. They only work in the heliocentric model with a spinning globe. It is all in the observations and observable realities we see from the earth even though things may not appear to be what they are.

And as I also have already said, you would essentially need to superimpose this imagery onto the flat earth map because these are observable evidences which people see from the ground each and every day, however, you can do no such thing on a flat earth map. It blows the whole theory out of the water. A flat earth simply does not match up with what is observed from the ground by people all over the world each and every day: for those in the northern hemisphere do not see the sun doing the same thing as those in the southern hemisphere, and vice versa, and yet the tropics and equatorial circles are parallels: and therefore, what we see, we see because we are on a sphere with a curved surface that is rotating on an axis and tilted on that axis.

 

[Clete]

This is why we are debating flat earth

1. Experiments could not detect motion to the earth. "Soon I came to the conclusion that our idea about the motion of the Earth with respect to the ether is incorrect, if we admit Michelson’s null result as a fact. This was the first path which led me to the special theory of relativity...I have come to believe that the motion of the Earth cannot be detected by any optical experiment--Albert Einstein “How I Created the Theory of Relativity,” Dec. 14, 1922

2. The sun, moon, and stars tell us nothing about the shape of the earth. The sun and the moon are not habitations for life. They are lights in the sky that appear much smaller than the earth. They have no atmosphere, water/oceans, or forests. We observe them, along with the clouds and the stars, moving across the sky.

3. The horizon line always appears straight/flat and is never curved. The horizon always rises up to our eye level regardless of how high we go. The higher we go the further into the distance we see the land and water/oceans rise up before us as a flat plane would do, we never see the earth drop away from us as we would if the earth were a globe.

4. Everything we know about a globed earth and heliocentric universe is as "imagined" as Einstein's relative space/time universe. There exists much evidence that NASA faked the moon landings and is now faking space missions to keep us from finding out the earth is flat just as our God given senses and the Bible tell us.

--Dave

So happy to see a new thread started!

I've been super busy the last few days but will be back to posting as soon as time allows.

Clete

 

[Clete]

This is why we are debating flat earth

1. Experiments could not detect motion to the earth. "Soon I came to the conclusion that our idea about the motion of the Earth with respect to the ether is incorrect, if we admit Michelson’s null result as a fact. This was the first path which led me to the special theory of relativity...I have come to believe that the motion of the Earth cannot be detected by any optical experiment--Albert Einstein “How I Created the Theory of Relativity,” Dec. 14, 1922

2. The sun, moon, and stars tell us nothing about the shape of the earth. The sun and the moon are not habitations for life. They are lights in the sky that appear much smaller than the earth. They have no atmosphere, water/oceans, or forests. We observe them, along with the clouds and the stars, moving across the sky.

3. The horizon line always appears straight/flat and is never curved. The horizon always rises up to our eye level regardless of how high we go. The higher we go the further into the distance we see the land and water/oceans rise up before us as a flat plane would do, we never see the earth drop away from us as we would if the earth were a globe.

4. Everything we know about a globed earth and heliocentric universe is as "imagined" as Einstein's relative space/time universe. There exists much evidence that NASA faked the moon landings and is now faking space missions to keep us from finding out the earth is flat just as our God given senses and the Bible tell us.

--Dave

Can I take this first post of yours to mean that all of the dozens of arguments that were presented in the original thread were all ignored?

I'm not at all interested in starting completely over from scratch just doing a repeat of the first thread. This new thread only exists because we were unable to edit posts in the other. The idea isn't supposed to have been to provide new space for Patrick Jane to repost every idiotic image he's ever found on the internet or to rewind all the way back to a year and a half ago and start completely over as if the other thread never happened.

When time allows I'm going to repost those videos that prove that flat-earth silliness is completely wrong and we can either substantively talk through the arguments presented their against this flat-earth nonsense or you all can waste your time doing whatever this is without my participation.

Clete

 

[JudgeRightly]

Can I take this first post of yours to mean that all of the dozens of arguments that were presented in the original thread were all ignored?

I'm not at all interested in starting completely over from scratch just doing a repeat of the first thread. This new thread only exists because we were unable to edit posts in the other. The idea isn't supposed to have been to provide new space for Patrick Jane to repost every idiotic image he's ever found on the internet or to rewind all the way back to a year and a half ago and start completely over as if the other thread never happened.

When time allows I'm going to repost those videos that prove that flat-earth silliness is completely wrong and we can either substantively talk through the arguments presented their against this flat-earth nonsense or you all can waste your time doing whatever this is without my participation.

Clete

Dave already said he wasn't going to respond to them because "it's not the direction be wants to go with the thread," or something along those lines, or was it that he didn't like how the guy in those videos spoke...

 

[daqq]

Pythagoras was also a Freemason? :doh:
Anyone can play that game Patrick . . .

Ahah! See? You yourself have become an Illuminati shill! :chuckle:

 

[DFT_Dave]

I have lived in both the Northern hemisphere and the Southern hemisphere (where I currently reside). In the North, the sun's path arcs through the direction indicated by the south pole of a compass, and in the South the sun's path arcs through the direction indicated by the north pole of a compass.

Some of us do observe these things. We aren't all religious.

Stuart

You personally watched the sun "all day" and observe an arc that actually curved in conformity with an globe like daqq illustrates here? I know he's not trying to illustrate this to exact scale but I get his point.

View attachment 26272

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

There really isn't any arc at all because what we all see is due to the fact that we are on a globe with a curved surface that is rotating and tilted on its axis of rotation. The sun is stationary relative to our position because we are also in an orbit around the sun. I know you already understand these things, being that you appear to understand the commonly accepted view, but my point cannot be stressed enough because in the flat-earth model there is no way for you to explain what is witnessed from the ground in the various locations and latitudes on the earth. Here is the same point once again from the most recent link which I posted on the previous page:

From a flat earth map and viewpoint you cannot explain these three different views of the path of the sun, which occur in varying degrees all of the time, each and every day, because as already stated: the three lines or circles for the tropics and the equator are actually parallel lines around a globe, a sphere, which is rotating and tilted on its axis. And this of course goes right back to the point made in the video from Pg.1 because this is precisely what the video is speaking about in simpler geometric drawings:



And as I also have already said, you would essentially need to superimpose this imagery onto the flat earth map because these are observable evidences which people see from the ground each and every day, however, you can do no such thing on a flat earth map. It blows the whole theory out of the water. A flat earth simply does not match up with what is observed from the ground by people all over the world each and every day: for those in the northern hemisphere do not see the sun doing the same thing as those in the southern hemisphere, and vice versa, and yet the tropics and equatorial circles are parallels: and therefore, what we see, we see because we are on a sphere with a curved surface that is rotating on an axis and tilted on that axis.

I understand your argument I just have not seen how this is verifiable.

I hope that you understand when we are shown how we measure the angle and azimuth that one has to do it as if the earth is flat and the horizon is straight. It makes no sense to assume flat earth in order to prove a globe. One would think that this proves flat earth.

When you say, "There really isn't any arc at all", then add, "what is witnessed from the ground in the various locations and latitudes on the earth", I have to conclude that no one witnesses any arc at all from any particular location. Maybe no one can see an arc is because it would be too slight for anyone to actually see. I personally have never watched the sun all day in order to verify that the earth is flat. We have seen some time lapse video of this happening. One can reject any video but eyewitnessing this arcing path of the sun is something I don't think anyone can do in support of either flat or globe earth.

Again, I'm not saying your argument is wrong, I'm just not seeing as yet how one can verify it. But I am honestly researching this and following the videos you're presenting. I also am researching this from the flat earth perspective for an answer.

I want to thank you because this is the way I had hoped this debate would go.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

Can I take this first post of yours to mean that all of the dozens of arguments that were presented in the original thread were all ignored?

I'm not at all interested in starting completely over from scratch just doing a repeat of the first thread. This new thread only exists because we were unable to edit posts in the other. The idea isn't supposed to have been to provide new space for Patrick Jane to repost every idiotic image he's ever found on the internet or to rewind all the way back to a year and a half ago and start completely over as if the other thread never happened.

When time allows I'm going to repost those videos that prove that flat-earth silliness is completely wrong and we can either substantively talk through the arguments presented their against this flat-earth nonsense or you all can waste your time doing whatever this is without my participation.

Clete

Glad you're back, and no I have not ignored any arguments from either side of this topic.

I want more in depth debate as I have thanked daqq for understanding. I'm still researching the "Mapping" arguments.

I'm not going to answer posts that make too many points all at one time. The "flatards" videos are an example of this. And this time I'm making more written arguments rather than just showing videos. But I like viewing videos that educate me from both sides. I don't think you even look at the flat earth side and prefer to use ridicule and ad hominems instead. But please prove me wrong.

I fear you just want to "state" the status quo, like; there's a globe in every class room, NASA would never deceive anyone, the spinning globe is already proven beyond any doubt, case closed. Too many times you responded to arguments for flat earth as just lies rather than explain why you think they are wrong.

Please set aside your emotions. This is a good debate because it gives a lot of us who don't have a background in cosmology to learn about it from both sides of what is an important subject, in my opinion, with theological and eschatological implications.

Respect other people's opinion even if you disagree and at least acknowledge that people want to know about this and many of them don't trust NASA and fear a deep state that wants to control them with false information about God, science, and maybe even cosmology.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

Dave already said he wasn't going to respond to them because "it's not the direction be wants to go with the thread," or something along those lines, or was it that he didn't like how the guy in those videos spoke...

The flatard videos cover too much ground all at once. We have already been arguing many of the points made from them. I have watched most of them and I will watch the rest.

And yes I don't care for the ridicule and bad language. The videos that daqq suggested I think are better. I will be creating categories for this to keep the debate free to go back and forth but yet be organized.

I want a direction that is "open" to both sides. There would be no interest in this subject if there were absolutely no legitimate reasons to doubt the status quo, globe earth. And how do you debate a subject that is status quo anyway? If I had titled this "the earth is a globe and we went to the moon"? The response would have been, "dah!"

--Dave

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

For anyone who is truly interested in understanding what I am talking about; I just found a great app for this. Go to the following and click on the map anywhere you want to see the path of the sun. By clicking in the northern hemisphere, such as somewhere in the United States, then clicking next in the southern hemisphere such as somewhere in South America, like Brazil, Peru, Chile, or Argentina, you will immediately see the reversal of the angle from which the sun is viewed as crossing overhead, (the path of the sun is in the southern sky as viewed from the northern hemisphere and in the northern sky as viewed from the southern hemisphere).

Moreover you can click on the equatorial region approximately between the two hemispheres and see that the path of the sun will be displayed in a fairly straight line overhead. These three different views of the paths of the sun as viewed from the earth are simply not possible on a flat earth model. The flat-earthers will never overcome this obstacle: it is empirical visual evidence which is catastrophic to the flat earth theory.

I set it for Buenos Aires in the following link just for fun:

Suncalc: sun position
http://suncalc.net/#/-34.6197,-58.3525,2/2018.03.11/23:33

That's all well and good.

Before I go on here, I have to make a confession.

My friend Chippy lives in the (so called) northern hemisphere.
I had watched one of his previous videos and he was calling the airlines about a flight from Chile.
I wrongly assumed that was where he lived.

Now that being said, he still does not believe the sun moves counter clock wise in the (so called)southern hemisphere.

Here is a nice video using real pictures and an app that aligns photographs by directional degrees.

I know you like foolin' around with that stuff so this should be really interesting to you.

Between 27 and 28 minutes he says he lives in the northern hemisphere.

In this video his objective is to show that the sun is setting in a northerly direction from Perth, Austraila.

Also that it does not set at the degree like the day and time apps say.

Enjoy....

40 minutes

 

[patrick jane]

[h=1]Globe Debunked - Great Flat Lake Test[/h]

13 minutes

 

[patrick jane]

[h=1]The Satellite Hoax[/h]

6 minutes - Funny

 

[Stuu]

You personally watched the sun "all day" and observe an arc that actually curved in conformity with an globe like daqq illustrates here? I know he's not trying to illustrate this to exact scale but I get his point.

--Dave

Yes, I have done that. I have also plotted the changes in position of the setting sun over several months.

It's a globe.

Stuart