ECT WILL PENTECOSTALS TELL US WHY ??

[turbosixx]

Hi , will you explain what Col 1:25 and 26 mean ?

What does " Hath Been Made " mean in verse 26?

dan p

25Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; 26Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Looks like preset tense. Manifest - display or show (a quality or feeling) by one's acts or appearance; demonstrate .

 

[DAN P]

25Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; 26Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Looks like preset tense. Manifest - display or show (a quality or feeling) by one's acts or appearance; demonstrate .

Hi and at least you are trying !!

#1 , The verb " is made Manifest " is th the Aorist Tense , which means something done in the Past .

#2 , The verb " hath been Hid " is in the Greek Perfect Tense and means something that Happened in PAST TIME and is still in CONTINUOUS ACTION in Present time as in the Dispensation of Grace !!

dan p

 

[turbosixx]

Hi and at least you are trying !!

#1 , The verb " is made Manifest " is th the Aorist Tense , which means something done in the Past .

#2 , The verb " hath been Hid " is in the Greek Perfect Tense and means something that Happened in PAST TIME and is still in CONTINUOUS ACTION in Present time as in the Dispensation of Grace !!

dan p

Sounds logical to me.

 

[andyc]

Hi , will you explain what Col 1:25 and 26 mean ?

What does " Hath Been Made " mean in verse 26?

dan p

In verse 26 "hath been made" means.........wait for it......."hath been made".

Who would have thought that?

The mystery is talking about the kingdom of God, and that the gentiles now also qualify along side the Jews because faith is the requirement. There is no distinction between Jews and gentiles because faith removes the barrier. If God justifies the circumcised and uncircumcised by faith, there is no more division between the two.
God has (past tense) accomplished it in Christ once for all.

 

[andyc]

Hi to all , and in Acts 2:1 on the Day of Pentecost , they were ONE accord in one place !

And in verse 2 , there came a mighty Rushing wind !

Did you FEEL the Wind ?

Then there appeared unto them CLOVEN TONGUES like as FIRE , and sat on each of them !

The Pentecostals claim is that IF you have not been Baptized as in Acts 3 , you can not be saved !

If you were Baptized as those in Acts 2:1-4 , then , it is a group Baptism of the Holy Spirit !

Did you have A CLOVEN TONGUE of FIRE sitting on you ??

Explain the CLOVEN TONGUE ?

Explain , why Fire is used , and it's meaning ?

How were you able to receive HOLY SPIRIT and is it part of Salvation ??

DAN P

I think most people will realize that dan p is the guy here who likes to throw a wet towel on the the fire of God. Jesus is the baptizer with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

The events seen in Acts 2 are special, as it was the first outpouring. However, it is not the normal operation of the Holy Spirit both in scripture after this initial infilling, and today. In fact, it contradicts the instruction of Paul. 120 people all speaking in tongues at the same time is not something Paul would endorse, but what happened on the day of Pentecost was special because it was the fulfilment of the promise of God that the Holy Spirit was now ready to be poured out on everyone. Sons, daughters, male, female, free, slaves, Jews, gentles. Everyone was now acceptable because faith was now the only requirement in the current dispensation.Everything else apart from faith was nothing with God. Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing.

 

[revpete]

Hi to all , and in Acts 2:1 on the Day of Pentecost , they were ONE accord in one place !



And in verse 2 , there came a mighty Rushing wind !



Did you FEEL the Wind ?



Then there appeared unto them CLOVEN TONGUES like as FIRE , and sat on each of them !



The Pentecostals claim is that IF you have not been Baptized as in Acts 3 , you can not be saved !



If you were Baptized as those in Acts 2:1-4 , then , it is a group Baptism of the Holy Spirit !



Did you have A CLOVEN TONGUE of FIRE sitting on you ??



Explain the CLOVEN TONGUE ?



Explain , why Fire is used , and it's meaning ?



How were you able to receive HOLY SPIRIT and is it part of Salvation ??



DAN P

Hi Dan,

This is a new one on me. I have been a Pente for ages and never heard such teaching before! The Pentecostals teach (in my experience anyway) that if it is possible one should be baptised in water by full emersion. The filling with The Holy Spirit is an experience subsequent to conversion.

Acts Ch 2 not 3 was a unique experience to mark the birth of The Christian Church. As I'm sure you know one is baptised into the Body of Christ by The Holy Spirit on conversion.

Pete

 

[Lazy afternoon]

I think most people will realize that dan p is the guy here who likes to throw a wet towel on the the fire of God. Jesus is the baptizer with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

The events seen in Acts 2 are special, as it was the first outpouring. However, it is not the normal operation of the Holy Spirit both in scripture after this initial infilling, and today. In fact, it contradicts the instruction of Paul. 120 people all speaking in tongues at the same time is not something Paul would endorse, but what happened on the day of Pentecost was special because it was the fulfilment of the promise of God that the Holy Spirit was now ready to be poured out on everyone. Sons, daughters, male, female, free, slaves, Jews, gentles. Everyone was now acceptable because faith was now the only requirement in the current dispensation.Everything else apart from faith was nothing with God. Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing.

The first events Acts ch 2 were for the 120.

The 3000 being saved are the norm for the church then and today.

If any of the 3000 then went on in the following of Christ as His first disciples did then they would become as the 120 did.

The 120 experienced Tabernacles and they blew trumpets.(began judging Gods House)


2Ch 5:12 Also the Levites which were the singers, all of them of Asaph, of Heman, of Jeduthun, with their sons and their brethren, being arrayed in white linen, having cymbals and psalteries and harps, stood at the east end of the altar, and with them an hundred and twenty priests sounding with trumpets
2Ch 5:13 It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the LORD; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of musick, and praised the LORD, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the LORD;
2Ch 5:14 So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of God.




LA

 

[turbosixx]

As I'm sure you know one is baptised into the Body of Christ by The Holy Spirit on conversion.

Pete ��

Sorry to jump in here but I was wondering if you had a verse for this.

 

[DAN P]

Hi Dan,

This is a new one on me. I have been a Pente for ages and never heard such teaching before! The Pentecostals teach (in my experience anyway) that if it is possible one should be baptised in water by full emersion. The filling with The Holy Spirit is an experience subsequent to conversion.

Acts Ch 2 not 3 was a unique experience to mark the birth of The Christian Church. As I'm sure you know one is baptised into the Body of Christ by The Holy Spirit on conversion.

Pete

Hi and Dispensationalism was new to me also and it took many others to many questions as what is to happen next !!

Dispensationalism is Irrefutable , as it is a biblical word that is found in 1 Cor 9:17 and in Eph 3:2 and in Col 1:25 and many would rather fight Paul and the Holy Spirit !!

So , what EKKLESIA /ASSEMBLY are you wanting to see in Acts 2 and 3 !!

Where is the filling an experience SUBSEQUENT to salvation ??

dan p

 

[turbosixx]

Hi and at least you are trying !!

#1 , The verb " is made Manifest " is th the Aorist Tense , which means something done in the Past .

#2 , The verb " hath been Hid " is in the Greek Perfect Tense and means something that Happened in PAST TIME and is still in CONTINUOUS ACTION in Present time as in the Dispensation of Grace !!

dan p

I agree with that. Next question.

 

[revpete]

Sorry to jump in here but I was wondering if you had a verse for this.

Sure: 1 Cor. 12:13

Pete

 

[revpete]

Hi and Dispensationalism was new to me also and it took many others to many questions as what is to happen next !!



Dispensationalism is Irrefutable , as it is a biblical word that is found in 1 Cor 9:17 and in Eph 3:2 and in Col 1:25 and many would rather fight Paul and the Holy Spirit !!



So , what EKKLESIA /ASSEMBLY are you wanting to see in Acts 2 and 3 !!



Where is the filling an experience SUBSEQUENT to salvation ??



dan p

As an orthodox dispensationalist you know very well what I believe about Acts 2. Acts 2 records the birth of the Christian Church. I have read enough posts and other literature to know that Dispensationalism is extremely refutable but then I think....why bother? Titus 3:10

Pete

 

[Psalmist]

As an orthodox dispensationalist you know very well what I believe about Acts 2. Acts 2 records the birth of the Christian Church. I have read enough posts and other literature to know that Dispensationalism is extremely refutable but then I think....why bother? Titus 3:10

Pete ��

I agree.

There have been several times that a discussion went south. I understand we'll (TOL forum members) not agree on somethings, and the things we (TOL forum members) as agree on are solid.

It's sad when the discussion turns to mean spirited replies to
Doctrines like...
The Trinity
The gathering away
The Second Coming
The Holy Spirit and the gifts, operational or not
The by faith salvation plan
The baptism in water
The KJV issue
The Pentecostals are crack pots, yes or no

You know when it's all over with and we are in the presence of Jesus, He'll settle it and somebody will challenge Him.
​

 

[turbosixx]

Sure: 1 Cor. 12:13

Pete ��

The way I understand it, baptism is the water and then we receive the spirit. It takes water and the spirit.
Jn. 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Acts 19:2 He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No,.....3And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?"
1 Jn. 5:7 For there are three that testify: 8the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

In peoples conversion baptism is water, and if they have received the water then they are given the spirit. The spirit agrees with the water baptism.

 

[DAN P]

As an orthodox dispensationalist you know very well what I believe about Acts 2. Acts 2 records the birth of the Christian Church. I have read enough posts and other literature to know that Dispensationalism is extremely refutable but then I think....why bother? Titus 3:10

Pete

Hi and can not answer post #52 , is no surprise as you have said Acts 2 answers will go South and are Irrelevant in the Dispensation of Grace , which is NOT called the Dispensation of Pentecost :bang::bang:

I believe you called diapensationalism Heretical, and is Col 1:25 and 26 Heresy ?

Can you REFUTE Col 1:25 and 26 :darwinsm::darwinsm::darwinsm:

dan p

 

[turbosixx]

Hi and can not answer post #52 , is no surprise as you have said Acts 2 answers will go South and are Irrelevant in the Dispensation of Grace , which is NOT called the Dispensation of Pentecost :bang::bang:

I believe you called diapensationalism Heretical, and is Col 1:25 and 26 Heresy ?

Can you REFUTE Col 1:25 and 26 :darwinsm::darwinsm::darwinsm:

dan p

What is the point of Col. 1:25-26?

 

[DAN P]

Sure: 1 Cor. 12:13

Pete

Hi and you Acts 2 people always do this and use Paul to prove a theology under Kingdom preaching , nothing new here !!:bang::bang:

dan p

 

[DAN P]

What is the point of Col. 1:25-26?

Hi and here is what rev/pete can never tell you of Col 1:26 and reads "The MYSTERY the one Having Been Kept Secret from the Ages and from Generations , BUT NOW was made MANIFEST to His saints "

rev/pete should have told you , because of his STELLAR Pastoral anti-dispensational experience !!

Here is what Paul means in Col 1:26 :

#1 , The Body of Christ was HIDDEN from the AGES !! Eph 1:4

#2 , Also HIDDEN from the Generations , from man ! 2 Tim 1:9

#3 , The verb " having been HIDDEN /APOKIYPTO " is in the Greek Perfect Tense , Passive Voice and Pariciple .

#4 , The Perfect tense begins before Creation as Eph 1:4 explains !

#4 , The other tense speaks to Continuous action and it is continuing !!

#5 , The Passive Voice , means God is behind and creator of Body of Christ , years before Acts 2 !!:bang::bang:

dan p



#

 

[DAN P]

What is the point of Col. 1:25-26?

Hi , and as you have read Eph 1:4 and 2 Tim 1:9 DESTROYS Acts 2 theology for TODAY !!:chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:

DAN P

 

[turbosixx]

Hi , and as you have read Eph 1:4 and 2 Tim 1:9 DESTROYS Acts 2 theology for TODAY !!:chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:

DAN P

What about Acts 2 does it destroy?