Why would God need a hell?

[Apple7]

)

I'm going to bring out a couple of points that are easy to grasp. On more than one occasion, Jesus says "I am" (John 4:26; 6:20; 8:24,28; 13:19; 18:5-6,8), and most of these verses fit into what is called idiomatic Greek expressions and make perfect sense in context. Now here's the rub----"someone at some point noticed that this perfectly ORDINARY combination of the first person pronoun 'I' and the present tense verb 'am' just happens to read the 'same' as what God says at Exodus 3:14!!" Lo and behold! Never mind that the rendering of John 8:58 is pitifully sloppy, and the expression at Exodus 3:14 doesn't even read "I Am" in many versions!

"I Shall Prove To Be What I Shall Prove To Be" (Ehyeh 'Asher 'Ehyeh) is one rendering.

"I Will Be That I Will Be" is the rendering by Leeser.

"I Will Become Whatsoever I Please," the rendering by Rotherham.


So how do those translations fit John 8:58? Whoever thought that one up didn't know too much.

The correct translation of John 8:58 is what The Living Bible offers:

"The absolute truth is that I was in existence before Abraham was ever born!"

And Moses said to HaElohim (i.e. all the Gods), Behold, I shall come to the sons of Israel and say to them, The God of your fathers has sent me to you; and they will say to me, What is His name? What shall I say to them? And Elohim said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM; and He said, You shall say this to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you. And Elohim said to Moses again, You shall say this to the sons of Israel, Yahweh, The Elohim of your fathers, The Elohim of Abraham, The Elohim of Isaac, and The Elohim of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My Name forever, and this is My memorial from generation to generation. (Exo 3.13 - 15)


Interestingly, The NT ‘I Am’ statements have their genesis in the OT.

Observe that Moses speaks to ‘HaElohim’ (literally, all the Gods), named as the singular Yahweh.

This is borne-out by the three successive ‘I Am’ statements, and the quintessential thrice repetition of The God of Abraham, The God of Isaac, and The God of Jacob – clearly indicating The One Triune God.

 

[Apple7]

Jesus is not El Shaddai!

In fact, He most definitely is...

 

[freelight]

The facts speak against your claim.......

The facts speak against your claim.......

Not with any scholar.

Sorry, my post here (plus links to previous posts) does still stand, despite your presupposition and misbelief that its not supported any scholars, since most all Koran translations do not support your super-imposition and 'addition' to the original text, and these standard translations present Allah as Lord of the worlds (all creatures/all creation). This includes jinn, but this does not make Allah a 'devil' anymore than Jehovah or Jesus being Lord of all, makes them into a 'satan'. Distorted logic and biased preconceptions abound in your presentation.

Greg Jennings has also exposed your dishonesty in the "Ask a muslim" thread here.

What we see is your textual manipulations not only in the Koran, but in the use of your own bible, to prove your concept of the 'Trinity'. This appears to be your 'methodology' so far, which is not very impressive, which works more to dismiss your case than to support it. Then you just down-talk, trash, demean and disparage the other person to make yourself feel better. That's not very ethical, intelligent or 'christian'.

 

[Apple7]

Sorry, my post here (plus links to previous posts) does still stand, despite your presupposition and misbelief that its not supported any scholars, since most all Koran translations do not support your super-imposition and 'addition' to the original text, and these standard translations present Allah as Lord of the worlds (all creatures/all creation). This includes jinn, but this does not make Allah a 'devil' anymore than Jehovah or Jesus being Lord of all, makes them into a 'satan'. Distorted logic and biased preconceptions abound in your presentation.

You have got to be kidding.

Openburhan is only good for one thing - searching as a concordance! I've used it for the past ten years as a search tool, only.

So...

The double ** means its an unusable translation according to whom? The authors of the website?

Come on...how gullible and naïve are you?

Show us where it references verifiable lexicography.

Show us some scholarly effort on your part.

btw....I have some ocean front property in Iowa...interested?

Greg Jennings has also exposed your dishonesty in the "Ask a muslim" thread here.

Another useless link by an Arabic-ignorant.

What we see is your textual manipulations not only in the Koran, but in the use of your own bible, to prove your concept of the 'Trinity'. This appears to be your 'methodology' so far, which is not very impressive, which works more to dismiss your case than to support it. Then you just down-talk, trash, demean and disparage the other person to make yourself feel better. That's not very ethical, intelligent or 'christian'.

All we see from you two liberals is denial without a cause.

Dream on...

:cigar:

 

[bsmitts]

I found the truth is that we are never separate from God. Never were, never will be (the purity of being born from a virgin points to timeless omnipresence). This is the bottom line of the gospel message but it's not profitable so it's overlooked in favor of something else. One example of hell is the constant thought patterns that aim to keep us separated from what is infinite and eternal. The mind is a tool of the personality and it believes if it stops thinking it will disintegrate into an empty void so it hardly ever quits. It's exhausting. There is true rest on the other side. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.

So according to you, the truth contains your (to put it nicely) your personal philosophy and two bible verses?

 

[bsmitts]

There's no deceit in the truth. We can keep our heads buried in the sand, watch humanity continue to crumble and self-destruct and pretend like nothing is wrong or we can claim our souls as our true identity and expose this traditional interpretation of the scriptures they pass on to us to justify living without real self-worth. Someone profits off of keeping us ignorant of the soul. Wake up!

"There's no deceit in truth." 1/1

"We can keep our heads buried in the sand, watch humanity continue to crumble and self-destruct."

Uh you cant watch much with your head buried in the sand. It's much worse than you sand dwellers realize. 1/2

"or we can claim our souls as our true identity"

Are you implying were being lied to?

"and expose this traditional interpretation of scriptures they pass on to us to justify living without real self worth."

Matthew 16:25

 

[Mickiel]

"There's no deceit in truth." 1/1

"We can keep our heads buried in the sand, watch humanity continue to crumble and self-destruct."

Uh you cant watch much with your head buried in the sand. It's much worse than you sand dwellers realize. 1/2

"or we can claim our souls as our true identity"

Are you implying were being lied to?

"and expose this traditional interpretation of scriptures they pass on to us to justify living without real self worth."

Matthew 16:25

Jeremiah 16:19, " Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity and things of no profit."

 

[chrysostom]

Why would God need a place like this traditional eternal hell?

we can only speculate

there are only two possibilities

either
God wants them to suffer eternally
or
God can do nothing about it

my belief in God would rule out both of them

 

[serpentdove]

[:burnlib:] Oh I'm sorry. It's easy to confuse the infinite worth of the soul with indigestion.

:king: Glad you agree. :thumb: 2 Thess 1:6 ESV opcorn:

 

[serpentdove]

Is that the Christ™ corporation strapline?

Very catchy.

It is. Jn 3:16

 

[serpentdove]

[Is 48:22] But God IS a Being of peace...

“If you take part of the truth, and try to make that part of the truth, all of the truth, then that part of the truth becomes an untruth.” ~ Adrian Rogers Rom. 2:5–8, Jn 3:36, Rev. 6:16, 17 opcorn:

See:

Jehovah's False Witnesses

 

[egyptianmuslim]

Why would God need a place like this traditional eternal hell? Why would he co-exist with such a place in eternity? Does God need a garbage dump for humans? How and when did the grave become the traditional explination of hell?

Punishment is a natural thing but the nature of paradise or hell/punishment is unknown

 

[Apple7]

Punishment is a natural thing but the nature of paradise or hell/punishment is unknown

The authors of the Koran copied their concept of Heaven and hell from the Biblical Book of Revelation.

 

[egyptianmuslim]

The authors of the Koran copied their concept of Heaven and hell from the Biblical Book of Revelation.

Not true, heaven is a spiritual thing but paradise is physical.

 

[Apple7]

Not true, heaven is a spiritual thing but paradise is physical.

The terms are synonymous.

 

[Mickiel]

we can only speculate

there are only two possibilities

either
God wants them to suffer eternally
or
God can do nothing about it

my belief in God would rule out both of them

Mine too. We can expect " more" from God, and we get it. We, is everybody. I have shown many times in this thread that the bible continually speaks in the terms of " All." Religions are " Expecting damnation for many humans", and seem to relish in that; to get a proper understanding of God, a human has to stretch their limited imagination, because God is giving more than we expect.

Jesus said he came that we can HAVE Life! We can have it. In their own way religions has developed a price for God's free gift, because that is the only way they can understand God. They think God needed to develop salvation in terms of competition, they think we humans need to sacrifice something to deserve this outstanding gift of life. It can't be free; we have to earn it by accepting, believing, obeying, church attendance, repentance, living a good life, we have to DO all these things to get that free gift, or we are disqualified from our inheritance. They have soiled the linen that the dead body of Christ was wrapped in, and put their imputed level of righteousness on it. They don't accept that Jesus totally washed all of humanities sins away, and they require humans to be responsible every day for their sins, because the redemption of Christ is way too unbelievable, way more than their minds can handle.

So they created an " Eternal pain parking lot", to ship unbelievers off into, because they have not paid for their sins. And the largest religion on earth has stamped this unholy doctrine with their approval. The house of God, fights against God. Jer. 23:11, " For BOTH the prophet and priest are profane; yes, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the Lord." Here God tells us his own people are wicked; its because what they believe is wicked ; their doctrines are wicked, but they think themselves saints.

 

[Mickiel]

Is there a real need to fear the Christian hell?

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2011-08-07-love-wins-afterlife-hell_n.htm

 

[Mickiel]

Just what is the true gospel going to do? Convert just a few? Is it just for a few, just for believers? Who is the truth for, just an elect? The gospels being preached now are just for who hears it , they are not tuned into the biblical message of " All." Col. 1: 5-6, "For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, ( this hope is in heaven, where limited religions cannot effect it), whereof you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, which is come unto you, as it is IN ALL THE WORLD; and brings forth fruit, as it does also in you, since the day you heard of it , and knew the Grace of God in truth."

The true gospel will bring forth fruit in ALL the world, because its for everyone, it is the true grace of God. This hope is for unbelievers, those who reject Christ have a hope preserved in heaven where other believers in God cannot take it away from them. Unbelievers are not condemning unbelievers, that condemnation is coming from believers in God. The church of God, rejecting those who reject Christ! Its a stunning reality! Its happening everywhere, a jaundice of unrelenting judgment.

God help us.

 

[Stuu]

It is. Jn 3:16

That is a bit creepy.

I'm not a resident of your fair, crazy land so I had to look him up.

Tim might hope for eternal life but it didn't lead to much of an eternal football career, apparently.

But these people have the numerology thing working.

Tim thinks his god doesn't care about football. He should talk to Rick Joyner whose god loves football.

Crazy cult this christianity.

Stuart

 

[serpentdove]

Just what is the true gospel going to do? Convert just a few?

2 Ti 3:7 :dizzy: